TRO Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, AntrimBlack said: Judging by his performances when given the chance in the first team, I doubt if he will have anything to gain by moving to another club. They will see exactly the same thing, that at this stage in his career he just does not warrant lots of playing time in the first team. He is not just miraculously going to become a first team quality player overnight. I think Carney plays really well in boys football.....when he has stepped up to mens football, he is left wanting a bit for me. Its a transition, that is hard to make, and it is still part of his development.....he is trying to run, before he can walk and his impatience, could be his undoing. Playing Midfield in a Premier league team,successfully requires a bunch of attributes, not just one or two......He would do well to calm his jets, and get on with acquiring them. It seems to me, he scores a goal, and its like he has proved the doubters wrong.....There is more to the game from a midfielders point of view, than scoring goals now and again, despite him have a good game overall. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 The lad is only 18. Yes he looks extremely promising but to become even a bang-average Premier League player you are talking the small fractions of a percent in terms of ability. You can certainly see why the Club will be very reluctant to pay extortionate wages and/or playing time demands for a player very much still in the potential phase, if this is indeed the case. For me, it would make a lot of sense for him to play week in, week out in the Championship for a season for that experience playing the "real game" then aim to break into the first team here next season if he's good enough, still at only 19 years old. Can't help but think he's been sold the grass is greener, which isn't too surprising if Barcelona/Dortmund really are after you but obviously he's much more likely to get regular minutes for us in the coming seasons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) The manager has an easy job in introducing new talent to the first team......all you have to do is force his hand. and when you get on, make it so he can't leave you out......its not rocket science, thats what all the top players have done. Carney, should know what he has to do. I remember seeing Gareth Barry for the first time and turning to my mate and saying " How can you leave him out".......Thats what youth players do,to succeed, make a statement. Make a Statement Carney. Edited June 25, 2022 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, TRO said: I think Carney plays really well in boys football.....when he has stepped up to mens football, he is left wanting a bit for me. Its a transition, that is hard to make, and it is still part of his development.....he is trying to run, before he can walk and his impatience, could be his undoing. Playing Midfield in a Premier league team,successfully requires a bunch of attributes, not just one or two......He would do well to calm his jets, and get on with acquiring them. It seems to me, he scores a goal, and its like he has proved the doubters wrong.....There is more to the game from a midfielders point of view, than scoring goals now and again, despite him have a good game overall. He is indeed playing even better in boys football now. I saw alot more tactical awareness from him in the 2 England games last week. That is coming from training and playing for the 1st team at Villa . He has always stood out but that was only going one way. Forward. He is now learning the more difficult side of the game out of possession and defending. It is just a crying shame that his representation cannot see how much Gerrard and McAllister can teach him. I doubt there is a managerial partnership on the planet that is better based to develop his skillset. Between those 2 you have really got 2 true masters of midfield play. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, penguin said: The lad is only 18. Yes he looks extremely promising but to become even a bang-average Premier League player you are talking the small fractions of a percent in terms of ability. You can certainly see why the Club will be very reluctant to pay extortionate wages and/or playing time demands for a player very much still in the potential phase, if this is indeed the case. For me, it would make a lot of sense for him to play week in, week out in the Championship for a season for that experience playing the "real game" then aim to break into the first team here next season if he's good enough, still at only 19 years old. Can't help but think he's been sold the grass is greener, which isn't too surprising if Barcelona/Dortmund really are after you but obviously he's much more likely to get regular minutes for us in the coming seasons. He only needs to ask Phillipe or Louie, who have actually left there to come to us......as for Dortmund, I think he has too much Jude in his eye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Everyone please block and report this fake account - their profile picture is taken from an AI service online - they aren't a real person https://generated.photos/face-generator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) Can't blame him really if he does go given the track record of Sancho and Bellingham. Best of luck to the kid. Edited June 25, 2022 by AV82 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: The club won't just be sitting on their hands waiting for him to decide. They will be actively trying to agree terms for him to stay. As I said, I bet nothing we've offered has changed since our offer in Oct last year. I expect it was let's sit down and reassess in summer during pre season. So we will probably offer him revised terms this summer and Gerrard talking about next season and where he'll fit in with mins on pitch. He can decide himself then. If he turns down the offer we should listen to offers for him. If he doesn't want to leave and wants to run down his contract he can but obviously he'd have to play with u21 or we loan him out somewhere for a fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, AV82 said: Can't blame him really if he does go given the track record of Sancho and Bellingham. Best of luck to the kid. He's not. It's a fake ITK account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, AV82 said: Can't blame him really if he does go given the track record of Sancho and Bellingham. Best of luck to the kid. Mate read what the @The_Steve said, come on. It’s no wonder shit like this spirals out of control! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, TRO said: The manager has an easy job in introducing new talent to the first team......all you have to do is force his hand. and when you get on, make it so he can't leave you out......its not rocket science, thats what all the top players have done. Carney, should know what he has to do. I remember seeing Gareth Barry for the first time and turning to my mate and saying " How can you leave him out".......Thats what youth players do,to succeed, make a statement. Make a Statement Carney. On the other hand Ramsey got a fair bit of game time before he started to show - so it's not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZL- Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 I've been thinking a lot about how we've handled the CC situation and can't help but feel it was an unfortunate season that probably isn't indicative of minutes in the future. We do have 5 subs coming in next year, I'm sceptical that will mean all managers will use all 5 but perhaps they will use 3 for tactical/minutes reasons and leave 2 spare for injuries. I want to highlight how key loans are in developing all of the top players, there is another level of elite player that skips the loan development phase completely but when you plot those break outs in every case they were bedded into the team at cup competitions. Saka in Europa League and Foden in domestic cups are perfect examples of this. Carney featured in both league cups games before we were unfortunately knocked out by Chelsea. There is a question mark why CC didn't feature vs Utd in the FA cup game. He did play in a few of the games leading up to it vs Norwich and Chelsea but was omitted for the shocking loss vs Brentford. Overall it is extremely unlucky we did met Chelsea round 2 and Utd round 1 of league and fa cup respectively, even though we were only narrowed defeated in both games had we a more fortuitous draws I think we would have seen considerable more minutes for Carney as no matter the level of player, without a loan spell it is nearly always best to bed players into senior football via the cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, hippo said: On the other hand Ramsey got a fair bit of game time before he started to show - so it's not easy. Thats my point Pete.....maybe JJ forced his ( Deans) hand, behind the scenes. sure he has developed more, since......but you have earn that breakthrough...and then capitalise. My point was......its easy for the manager, if they do stand out, and force his hand......its hard for the manager if they don't. As an example it would be easier for SG to play Cam Archer than Brad Young.....because one is forcing him to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 24 minutes ago, hippo said: On the other hand Ramsey got a fair bit of game time before he started to show - so it's not easy. Was there an injury which benefited JJ? Or am I getting seasons mixed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Regardless of whether he signs a new contract this summer, if he deserves playing then i'd play him. I'm not going to bomb him out for wanting to weigh up his career options. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Xela said: Regardless of whether he signs a new contract this summer, if he deserves playing then i'd play him. I'm not going to bomb him out for wanting to weigh up his career options. This can’t be stressed enough. He may well end up staying. I wish people wouldn’t just write the kid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: Judging by his performances when given the chance in the first team, I doubt if he will have anything to gain by moving to another club. They will see exactly the same thing, that at this stage in his career he just does not warrant lots of playing time in the first team. He is not just miraculously going to become a first team quality player overnight. The problem for clubs like us we can't afford to give Carney, Archer etc minutes and not have it massively impact how we perform. It's all good and well having the best talents in the country but if you cant give them minutes it's somewhat a waste of time and effort given Carney will likely leave for not much money. Let says Man City are interested, they can give him a lot of minutes if they want to because they dominate games. He could get 5-7 run outs in the league against weak teams, some FA Cup, League Cup games and dead European ones. Why? Because he will be absolutely fine when he's rolled out in CM next to Rodri and KDB and all the other talent they have and it will hardly impact the result. We can't afford to do that, every game is vital and I don't think the rest of the team can carry a youth player coming through. Luckily there are only a couple of clubs that could do that and Man City and Chelsea tend to let someone else develop them and then just pay the 50-70m down the road if they are good. If he wants to play a lot he will likely have to go abroad, Germany have been poaching the good youngsters for years and giving them minutes. I can understand him wanting minutes and he may feel he's not getting a fair chance. We saw some absolutely dreadful performances from certain players last year only for them to be rolled out game after game. If we sign another CM you have to assume they would be a first 11 player along with Kamara and then it's a battle between JJ/McGinn/CC/Luiz(?) for one other CM slot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 If we insert a buy back clause I'd be fine with this. Otherwise make them pay through the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 53 minutes ago, rjw63 said: Wrong thread ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts