Recruitment

[wilko154]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

was it?

I certainly didn't expect all of our new players to come in and perform like superstars straight away.

The mix of foreign talent and young talent that we brought in over the Summer was always going to produce a mixed bag of results (in my opinion).

It can take some players a full year to get up to speed with the Premier League, and that's playing in a side that's not battling for survival. The fact we've had to buy players for almost every position, and so have a squad that haven't all played together is also a direct factor into the performances we have seen. I would expect if we can stay up then next season we will start to see the best of some of the players we have.

 

[lapal_fan]

This thread is indicative of the problem football has on the whole - impatience. 

We're not just trying to build a team of football players.  We nearly went out of existence in July 2018, 18 months ago.  I don't think people remember back that far.  It's mental - we shouldn't even be in the Premier League this year.  We've had to rebuild an entire infrastructure, from top to bottom, whilst being able to pick 11 players to go and play football at a professional level - competitively. 

Dean Smith has been with us for 15 months, Suso has been here for 15 months, Nassef, Wes and Christian have been here for 18 months. 

The incredibly rapid rise we've seen since July 2018 has been nothing short of meteoric.  Our squad was breaking up before our very eyes, we were hours away from losing Jack on the cheap to keep the club afloat and had Nassef and Wes not come in when they did, I'd hate to think where we'd be at this moment - probably looking enviously up at Sunderland.  

So you'll all have to forgive me in thinking that this thread - and many other threads incessantly moaning about how shit we were for 45 minutes against Brighton away or that a player costing "£10m!!!!!!!!!" hasn't performed to the stupidly high expectations of you and your ignorant, unrealistic and lacking in any form of common sense buddies - is absolutely ridiculous. 

And I'm sat here, thinking "pfft.. we're actually doing pretty **** well all things considered". 

How we're even in the Premier League is beyond me.  Then we've had an entire squad build over 1 summer.  Think about that.  We lost all of our senior players, and all of the responsibility fell on the shoulders of a 24 year old.  

We're 1 point away from getting out the bottom 3.  Have you forgotten the season we got relegated?  We finished with 17 points!  We've already beaten that, with a completely new club, more or less.  It's astonishing. 

There are improvements to be made - but ffs, can we give the heirarchy the time to do it please?  

Our fan base is very demanding.. I don't like it, but what can you do?  We won the league a million years ago, and have I ever told you about when we conquered Europe? 

Sometimes, once we've pulled the trigger on yet another hapless manager, who did well to start, then went to shit (again) and it keeps happening, you think - what difference does it make?  

To me, the current set up looks good.  We're acting like a professional club.  We have aims and ambitions and we're not being stupid doing it (like spunking money on a striker).  What if we go down?  Well, we'd have the same manager, largely the same squad and I'd be very confident that we'd come up again.  

As far as I'm concerned, we must see this through - through thick or thin.  

Are there extenuating circumstances which may alter my belief?  Yep, there is.  Is Dean Smith my "God"? No, he's not.  But he performed a miracle to get us up, sooner than expected, we are competitive in the league (despite a couple of kickings), unless things go obviously south, quickly - then we, as a fan base, must stick by him and team.

SUPPORT THE CLUB. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by lapal_fan

[markavfc40]

@lapal_fanspot on.

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

for every club that has done it better you can point at a club that has done it worse, that's football

I think we have a problem at the club for a long time that players leave us and go on to do better things whereas managers leave us to never be heard of again, that should be the opposite way round

This is correct. Have we actually done that badly? 

Look down the football pyramid and ask how many of those 90 odd clubs in the professional league wish the had done as ‘badly’ as us in recent years.

We just got promoted, we’re a team on the up, why can’t some fans just enjoy the ride?

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Fairly lengthy post

Love it. 

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

I certainly didn't expect all of our new players to come in and perform like superstars straight away.

The mix of foreign talent and young talent that we brought in over the Summer was always going to produce a mixed bag of results (in my opinion).

It can take some players a full year to get up to speed with the Premier League, and that's playing in a side that's not battling for survival. The fact we've had to buy players for almost every position, and so have a squad that haven't all played together is also a direct factor into the performances we have seen. I would expect if we can stay up then next season we will start to see the best of some of the players we have.

 

you could be right, but it could also be Jam tomorrow.....I don't think superstars was any of our expectation.

I have to be honest and I accept it could be me.....But I can think of 6 players, that I was expecting better from, not massively, but marginally better.

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

This is correct. Have we actually done that badly? 

Look down the football pyramid and ask how many of those 90 odd clubs in the professional league wish the had done as ‘badly’ as us in recent years.

We just got promoted, we’re a team on the up, why can’t some fans just enjoy the ride?

Are we on the up? If we go down, which I think we will, we will lose Mcginn, Mings and Grealish, almost certainly. Then where does that leave our squad? Worse than when NSWE arrived. 

If I were the owners of the club, I'd be asking questions of the recruitment team. Buying young, overseas players for 10m in the hope of improving them is ok but survival is the key to everything. I think we should have mixed this philosophy with signing players that are physical and with a bit of nous. We also went into the season with one striker, a young lad from a foreign league. Regardless of what your thoughts are on his ability, it was always going to be tough ask for him.

I just don't think our recruitment has been very good. The proof lies in the fact we're 18th and teams that we should be trying to catch are pulling away from us. 

If we go down, I think we'll stay down for a while tbh. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

The strategy is wrong, individually there's some talent there, but signing them as a collective hasn't really worked, you're helicopter dropping players who either lack experience or lack confidence and consistency at this stage of their careers into a tough standard of football and into a side fighting to survive. On top of that there's a lack of quality and leaders among the players we have retained from last seasons squad.

It's a very hard job to get right but for me it the execution hasn't been quite right this season.

[Tomaszk]

I fear we'll be looking back at that summer window with sickening regret in 5 years time.

I have a belief we'll do better this summer if we perform a miracle and stay up, but it will be a miracle.

[lapal_fan]

9 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

The strategy is wrong, individually there's some talent there, but signing them as a collective hasn't really worked, you're helicopter dropping players who either lack experience or lack confidence and consistency at this stage of their careers into a tough standard of football and into a side fighting to survive. On top of that there's a lack of quality and leaders among the players we have retained from last seasons squad.

It's a very hard job to get right but for me it the execution hasn't been quite right this season.

Apart from a bit of muscle in CM and another striker, last summer was as close to perfect as it could have been.  

We've got leaders - we've got Jack & Mings who jump out, then you've got McGinn and Hourihane (who was captain of Barnsley), Heaton who is an older head and even Neil Taylor who's been round the block (experience wise). 

If we hadn't have had to buy 10 players last summer, and only had to buy 5, I imagine the quality of player we'd have bought would be much higher than we were able to, what with the FFP and time restrictions we had on us.  

I for one am glad we didn't spend a further £20m on Maupay.  Do I think he would have been a good player for us?  Yea I do.  I'd have also liked Benhrama too, but we don't/didn't have the money for them.  If we'd have bought them as well as who we've already bought and still found ourselves going down - we'd have been in the shit financially - again. 

Is it frustrating to me and the other punters that watch Villa that we don't have that extra bit of quality?  Yea - but I'd rather be frustrated and annoyed we'd been relegated again than not have a club to go watch. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by lapal_fan

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

This thread is indicative of the problem football has on the whole - impatience. 

We're not just trying to build a team of football players.  We nearly went out of existence in July 2018, 18 months ago.  I don't think people remember back that far.  It's mental - we shouldn't even be in the Premier League this year.  We've had to rebuild an entire infrastructure, from top to bottom, whilst being able to pick 11 players to go and play football at a professional level - competitively. 

Dean Smith has been with us for 15 months, Suso has been here for 15 months, Nassef, Wes and Christian have been here for 18 months. 

The incredibly rapid rise we've seen since July 2018 has been nothing short of meteoric.  Our squad was breaking up before our very eyes, we were hours away from losing Jack on the cheap to keep the club afloat and had Nassef and Wes not come in when they did, I'd hate to think where we'd be at this moment - probably looking enviously up at Sunderland.  

So you'll all have to forgive me in thinking that this thread - and many other threads incessantly moaning about how shit we were for 45 minutes against Brighton away or that a player costing "£10m!!!!!!!!!" hasn't performed to the stupidly high expectations of you and your ignorant, unrealistic and lacking in any form of common sense buddies - is absolutely ridiculous. 

And I'm sat here, thinking "pfft.. we're actually doing pretty **** well all things considered". 

How we're even in the Premier League is beyond me.  Then we've had an entire squad build over 1 summer.  Think about that.  We lost all of our senior players, and all of the responsibility fell on the shoulders of a 24 year old.  

We're 1 point away from getting out the bottom 3.  Have you forgotten the season we got relegated?  We finished with 17 points!  We've already beaten that, with a completely new club, more or less.  It's astonishing. 

There are improvements to be made - but ffs, can we give the heirarchy the time to do it please?  

Our fan base is very demanding.. I don't like it, but what can you do?  We won the league a million years ago, and have I ever told you about when we conquered Europe? 

Sometimes, once we've pulled the trigger on yet another hapless manager, who did well to start, then went to shit (again) and it keeps happening, you think - what difference does it make?  

To me, the current set up looks good.  We're acting like a professional club.  We have aims and ambitions and we're not being stupid doing it (like spunking money on a striker).  What if we go down?  Well, we'd have the same manager, largely the same squad and I'd be very confident that we'd come up again.  

As far as I'm concerned, we must see this through - through thick or thin.  

Are there extenuating circumstances which may alter my belief?  Yep, there is.  Is Dean Smith my "God"? No, he's not.  But he performed a miracle to get us up, sooner than expected, we are competitive in the league (despite a couple of kickings), unless things go obviously south, quickly - then we, as a fan base, must stick by him and team.

SUPPORT THE CLUB. 

What a ridiculous post.....support the club, what is that all about, really.

What has any of that rendition of all our yesterdays...got to do with the basics on the pitch....react to the point by all means, but writing a manuscript, why we all be so grateful

What has it anything to do with losing the ball too easily or surrendering possession at the drop of a hat or being out fought.....what a rant.

I am sorry to **** on your chips mate , but I was trying to open  a sensible debate on our shortfalls, without the histrionics.....you have just gone off on an entirely different tangent, alluding to the fact that our promotion and the 10 wins on the trot, was not appreciated.....where you glean that from god only knows.

 

 

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

5 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Apart from a bit of muscle in CM and another striker, last summer was as close to perfect as it could have been.  

We've got leaders - we've got Jack & Mings who jump out, then you've got McGinn and Hourihane (who was captain of Barnsley), Heaton who is an older head and even Neil Taylor who's been round the block (experience wise). 

If we hadn't have had to buy 10 players last summer, and only had to buy 5, I imagine the quality of player we'd have bought would be much higher than we were able to, what with the FFP and time restrictions we had on us.  

I for one am glad we didn't spend a further £20m on Maupay.  Do I think he would have been a good player for us?  Yea I do.  I'd have also liked Benhrama too, but we don't/didn't have the money for them.  If we'd have bought them as well as who we've already bought and still found ourselves going down - we'd have been in the shit financially - again. 

Is it frustrating to me and the other punters that watch Villa that we don't have that extra bit of quality?  Yea - but I'd rather be frustrated and annoyed we'd been relegated again than not have a club to go watch. 

I just don't see it this way I'm afraid, that isn't enough in the way of leaders and Hourihane basically specialises in going missing at this level and is categorically not a leader on the pitch. There's consistency issues among likes of El Ghazi, Trezeguet, Luiz and Nakamba and for me better players were out there. 

In terms of the spend on others, well the club deemed that funds were there to go after another forward but didn't do enough. To go into the season with Wesley as the main man was quite a big error and having a Maupay or other decent option around would have IMO, put us in a much better place. We'd be in a very bad place should we go down regardless so another £17m or so wouldn't make all that much of a difference with the flipside being giving us a better chance of staying up. Besides, we're spending around this much this window anyway on Sammata and loan fees...

Edited January 20, 2020 by Dr_Pangloss

[thabucks]

I see Newcastle are getting Bentaleb on loan yet we chose to pursue the drunk has been Drinkwater ... it’s decision like this that baffles me 

[lapal_fan]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

What a ridiculous post.....support the club, what is that all about, really.

What has any of that rendition of all our yesterdays...got to do with the basics on the pitch....react to the point by all means, but writing a manuscript, why we all be so grateful

What has it anything to do with losing the ball too easily or surrendering possession at the drop of a hat or being out fought.....what a rant.

I am sorry to **** on your chips mate , but I was trying to open  a sensible debate on our shortfalls, without the histrionics.....you have just gone off on an entirely different tangent, alluding to the fact that our promotion and the 10 wins on the trot, was not appreciated.....where you glean that from god only knows.

 

 

 

The micro, and I mean micro analysis of Aston Villa is fine - but when you cannot put things in to any sort of context, and your points are so thin it makes greasy chip paper look like the concrete walls of the fuhrerbunker - then all hope is lost. 

Generally speaking @TRO - I agree with a lot of what you say, but this topic in particular highlights that you are sometimes unable to think about what is actually going on.

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, Rob182 said:

I think you're in for a shock. I respect your opinion, but I think you're doing a disservice to our players if you think they'd struggle in the Championship. Baggies are top of the Championship with dross like Kenneth Zohore and Matt Phillips in their first team. One of Fulham's most creative players is Josh 'float around the pitch like a crisp packet' Onomah. I have much more confidence in El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Jota than I ever had in Onomah, and Fulham are chasing the top 2.

West Brom are near the top because of Pereira from Sporting and Diangana from West Ham. Matt Phillips is better than Trezeguet.

You won't hear me arguing Josh Onomah's case but who's going to play better in that league...Wes or Mitrovic? Marvelous or Johansen? Targett or Joe Bryan? It's pretty close I'd say. We spent £45m on those three ffs.

I worry for us without Grealish down there. I feel sick at the thought of no McGinn or Mings.

[thunderball]

@lapal_fan absolutely on the same page, my sentiments entirely.

After 35 years following Villa, we have been up and down which helps with perspective, but it feels that we are now being sensible and sustainable and in as good as place as we really could be. No one can do a Sheikh Mansour or Abramovich anymore, its a grind due to FFP. We have no choice but to be patient. I honestly don't think there was any other away than what has been done other than getting in one more striker in the Summer. Its very bad luck with serious injuries that has really set us back and is colouring all of this.

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by thunderball

[Villarocker]

I was just thinking back to that summer interview with Purslow and Smith. Purslow hardly let Smith do any talking and with all that's gone on since it makes me wonder, is Smith simply a "yes man". If so, he was an easy target for the money men as being a Villa fan they always had a man willing to do whatever they wanted. 

Could you imagine someone like Benitez putting up with having no strikers for 3 weeks going into our most important games of the New Year? I'm sure he'd more outspoken than Smith has been. 

[lapal_fan]

5 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I just don't see it this way I'm afraid, that isn't enough in the way of leaders and Hourihane basically specialises in going missing at this level and is categorically not a leader on the pitch. There's consistency issues among likes of El Ghazi, Trezeguet, Luiz and Nakamba and for me better players were out there. 

In terms of the spend on others, well the club deemed that funds were there to go after another forward but didn't do enough. To go into the season with Wesley as the main man was quite a big error and having a Maupay or other decent option around would have IMO, put us in a much better place. We'd be in a very bad place should we go down regardless so another £17m or so wouldn't make all that much of a difference with the flipside being giving us a better chance of staying up. Besides, we're spending around this much this window anyway on Sammata and loan fees...

I get it, I do - I'm just the other side of the fence. 

I agree that there are players I'd have preferred to sign, over some of the ones we did sign - but that didn't happen unfortunately.  

I just see us acting with sustainability and it's been a very long time since I've seen that at villa.  It seems from 2010 onwards, we've been spending money on the pure hope of players rediscovering any form or desperate attempts to prove we're still "a big club" - a tag line for a season FFS, when really, it was a matter of time circling the shitty drain into the Championship.  Then obviously what happened down there happened, but we've got up by hook or crook. 

Maybe we wanted better players, but I don't think there was much doubt we were held to ransom by Brenford over Maupay and Benhrama.  

But I can see what we're trying to do and if we go down or not, I think we'll be losing some of our spine anyway, unless we see another miracle. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Apart from a bit of muscle in CM and another striker, last summer was as close to perfect as it could have been.  

We've got leaders - we've got Jack & Mings who jump out, then you've got McGinn and Hourihane (who was captain of Barnsley), Heaton who is an older head and even Neil Taylor who's been round the block (experience wise). 

If we hadn't have had to buy 10 players last summer, and only had to buy 5, I imagine the quality of player we'd have bought would be much higher than we were able to, what with the FFP and time restrictions we had on us.  

I for one am glad we didn't spend a further £20m on Maupay.  Do I think he would have been a good player for us?  Yea I do.  I'd have also liked Benhrama too, but we don't/didn't have the money for them.  If we'd have bought them as well as who we've already bought and still found ourselves going down - we'd have been in the shit financially - again. 

Is it frustrating to me and the other punters that watch Villa that we don't have that extra bit of quality?  Yea - but I'd rather be frustrated and annoyed we'd been relegated again than not have a club to go watch. 

your exaggeration hold no bounds.

• Hourihane a leader?, are you watching the same game as me.....He is a luxury player, who has a wand of a left foot and little else.
• Your talking about not having a club watch, and I am talking about giving the ball away too cheaply.
• Jack and Tyrone ,can't do it all on their own, sure JM is a major set back.....its the others that concern me, with basic stuff looking difficult to master.
• Apart from a bit of muscle as if its a nice add on to have......its crucial,its bloody central to this league.
• I never moaned last summer, about the one striker, because, I though it would be pointless, I knew it had consequences (but £130 mill is a huge amount to pay out in one window) and now they are being played out.
• "as close to perfect as it could have been".....I disagree.

I honestly think we paid out about £50 million on players that I would call dubious signings and that money could have been spent better.

If these players come good I will happily withdraw my comments.....and I sincerely hope I am wrong.

[wilko154]

Now in terms of recruitment itself, and I will no doubt repeat this in other threads shortly.

Selling your only fit striker ahead of your second relegation 6 pointer is without doubt a ridiculous decision for a Premier League club.