Douglas Luiz

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

You’re right this is now pretty common but it’s a problem for clubs, particularly lower down the tree. It takes money out of the game and gives it to already extremely rich players. Ok in this particular case in the big picture it’s more of an annoyance, although it doesn’t help with FFP. However for clubs that have a business model to grow, or even survive, using player sales, it’s a rapidly growing problem. 

Usually them clubs are smaller down the food chain so a big player for them will still move on if a bid is accepted 

Would have made no sense for example for Cash to see out his Forest contract at the time as who knows what could have happened in the future 

[MrBlack]

It is a growing problem, but players are taking on the risk if they refuse to sign a new contract. They get a long term injury and their career earnings could disappear overnight. 

It's a gamble, and I'm sure some players might be willing to take it, but if its only going to net them a short term extra few million in signing on fees, when the contact they sign could instead net them significantly more over its lifetime, I don't see it being a problem for too long.  First high profile case would probably see the practice stop.

[MrBlack]

Just now, MrBlack said:

It is a growing problem, but players are taking on the risk if they refuse to sign a new contract. They get a long term injury and their career earnings could disappear overnight. 

It's a gamble, and I'm sure some players might be willing to take it, but if its only going to net them a short term extra few million in signing on fees, when the contact they sign could instead net them significantly more over its lifetime, I don't see it being a problem for too long.  First high profile case would probably see the practice stop.

To add, I don't think Luiz is doing this for the money particularly. He just doesn't want to play defensive midfield and see his potential to play elsewhere blocked by being on a long contract.  I'm sure we'd have offered him enough to put him up there with our higher earners.

[DaveAV1]

53 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Usually them clubs are smaller down the food chain so a big player for them will still move on if a bid is accepted 

Would have made no sense for example for Cash to see out his Forest contract at the time as who knows what could have happened in the future 

Yes that’s all true but once teams like Brentford or even Brighton, who are competing in the already massively unbalanced PL and in the example you give, Championship clubs like Forest are also effected. Basically it’s good for players and agents but bad for clubs and ultimately bad for football. The slippery slope loses increasing amounts of traction. 
 

PS sorry Forest I Know you’re a PL Club and one of us as former European Champions. But you were a Championship club when Matt Cash was with you. If there are any Forest fans popping in to keep an eye on us and The Polish Cafu.  

Edited June 17, 2022 by DaveAV1

[tinker]

16 hours ago, 7392craig said:

I play 7 a side every week with a guy who played for West Brom until he was 18, he’s 27 now and a security guard. It’s like playing against DeBruyne.

This all over, the level of skill these players have is unbelievable to most of us. It's easy to do it with no pressure, add pressure to the mix and fantastic players can become passengers to scared to play.

Douglas was always going to see out his contract, its going to happen more and more with high level players,  especially the younger ones. 

[7392craig]

6 minutes ago, tinker said:

This all over, the level of skill these players have is unbelievable to most of us. It's easy to do it with no pressure, add pressure to the mix and fantastic players can become passengers to scared to play.

Douglas was always going to see out his contract, its going to happen more and more with high level players,  especially the younger ones. 

Completely agree. @TRO talks a lot about the importance of mentality and it’s right. Self belief and confidence in your ability when on the big stage play a massive part in a players’ development.

[sparrow1988]

I think what's happening here is the club have offered him a longer contract than he wants, probably a 5 year contract meaning he'll be 29 at the end of it. He's probably looking for a 3 year one, so that he can sign another contract at 27 to bring him to the 30 year old mark, meaning two pay rises in the 5/6 year period as opposed to one.

[VillaChris]

8 hours ago, nepal_villan said:

It's more common for players to run down their contracts these days. I've no issues having him one more year and him potentially leaving on a free.

Really? I know Pogba's pulled Man. United's pants down a bit this season but very few cases of that happening. Again Mbappe as one of world's best players and most marketable in next decade post Messi-Ronaldo is a little different to Doug here.

Leicester are selling Tielemans with one year left on his deal and Spurs will have to sell Kane if he gets to one year left on his deal.

Does seem odd perception on here that some don't think we should ever cash in on squad players who have value and a year or two left on their deal. A few want to keep Davis for next season even though his value to other clubs is very high currently. Same with wanting to keep Targett as back up.

After Lerner I don't think it's wise to keep thinking any owner will keep pumping in 100-200m in every summer without little coming back in sales. Abramovich did that for a few seasons and then there was change of strategy and need to raise money so they went down the route of snapping up young players and then loaning them out.

It's simple. Luiz hasn't signed a new deal, he's a saleable asset in 15-20m range and we have many options to play 6 or 8 in our midfield so don't see the point of keeping him as squad player for next season, we have Sanson for that. 

[duke313]

3 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Really? I know Pogba's pulled Man. United's pants down a bit this season but very few cases of that happening. Again Mbappe as one of world's best players and most marketable in next decade post Messi-Ronaldo is a little different to Doug here.

Leicester are selling Tielemans with one year left on his deal and Spurs will have to sell Kane if he gets to one year left on his deal.

Does seem odd perception on here that some don't think we should ever cash in on squad players who have value and a year or two left on their deal. A few want to keep Davis for next season even though his value to other clubs is very high currently. Same with wanting to keep Targett as back up.

After Lerner I don't think it's wise to keep thinking any owner will keep pumping in 100-200m in every summer without little coming back in sales. Abramovich did that for a few seasons and then there was change of strategy and need to raise money so they went down the route of snapping up young players and then loaning them out.

It's simple. Luiz hasn't signed a new deal, he's a saleable asset in 15-20m range and we have many options to play 6 or 8 in our midfield so don't see the point of keeping him as squad player for next season, we have Sanson for that. 

Agreed.  We got a massive windfall from Grealish, but we can't keep buying players and not making any money from sales, especially as we are currently not in any European competition. 

We should be looking to gradually improve the squad and selling players surplus to requirements.  

Luiz is no doubt a decent player and would start most games for us if he stayed, but he shouldn't be allowed to run his contract down.

Sell him, and either bring someone in to replace him or give a youth player a shot.

[tomav84]

11 hours ago, Tom13 said:

You're preaching to the choir regarding his ability. But there are definitely a few on here who don't rate him full stop.

yeah i'm one of them. i think he's rubbish as a 6 (which most i think agree with) but as an 8 i also think we have miles better at the club. i think sanson is better on the ball and is a better passer, mcginn has better tackling and work rate, and ramsey offers more of a goal threat. adding in kamara who can play as an 8 too, plus chuk, and maybe even another CM from the transfer market, i'd be more than happy to get 30m for him because he's way down in the pecking order for me.

he might well do well at another club...but there have been loads of players that have left villa and become more successful i.e. veretout. doesn't change the fact that they were rubbish for us.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, tinker said:

This all over, the level of skill these players have is unbelievable to most of us. It's easy to do it with no pressure, add pressure to the mix and fantastic players can become passengers to scared to play.

Douglas was always going to see out his contract, its going to happen more and more with high level players,  especially the younger ones. 

absolutely spot on.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, tomav84 said:

yeah i'm one of them. i think he's rubbish as a 6 (which most i think agree with) but as an 8 i also think we have miles better at the club. i think sanson is better on the ball and is a better passer, mcginn has better tackling and work rate, and ramsey offers more of a goal threat. adding in kamara who can play as an 8 too, plus chuk, and maybe even another CM from the transfer market, i'd be more than happy to get 30m for him because he's way down in the pecking order for me.

he might well do well at another club...but there have been loads of players that have left villa and become more successful i.e. veretout. doesn't change the fact that they were rubbish for us.

Dougie passs the ball well and is stylish in his work, which is easy on the eye.....The problem for me is, he is too easy to play against.....I admire some of his work and at the same time baulk at some of it too.

Now that is me not calling for a thug or a brick outhouse in his place.....its calling for what it says on the tin....."hard to play against"......There are players around who can be hard to play against AND at the same time silky in the transition.

I think the job is already underway and I believe SG will get us to be harder to play against.

[duke313]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

absolutely spot on.

We couldn't really complain if Luiz did leave on a free, after all we signed Kamara that way.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, duke313 said:

We couldn't really complain if Luiz did leave on a free, after all we signed Kamara that way.

It softens the blow, thats for sure.

[WooJung]

7 minutes ago, duke313 said:

We couldn't really complain if Luiz did leave on a free, after all we signed Kamara that way.

The Marseille fans are complaining though

I like Luiz, even though he was underwhelming this season, but it doesn't seem likely that he will sign a new contract. Weather he leaves this year or next year he will still need to be replaced, so it would make more sense to cash in on him now and have more funds for his replacement.

I'd be disappointed to lose him on a free 

[PaulMcGrath_5]

5 minutes ago, WooJung said:

The Marseille fans are complaining though

I like Luiz, even though he was underwhelming this season, but it doesn't seem likely that he will sign a new contract. Weather he leaves this year or next year he will still need to be replaced, so it would make more sense to cash in on him now and have more funds for his replacement.

I'd be disappointed to lose him on a free 

Forecast suggests a gloomy end to his time here.

Hopefully sunshine for all though, ultimately. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by PaulMcGrath_5

[Johnnyp]

I’d cash in if we got 25 to 30 million. The thing about him is we are passed the adapting phase to English football, it’s coming up on his 4th season with us and whilst he’s been good he hasn’t been brilliant. I just don’t see him getting much better and what bugs me is he doesn’t seem to care enough. In possession or out of it. I don’t like that. Again it’s not an adapting to English football thing - he’s here a while. I could easily see him go to Lazio or Roma and boss it, but it’s a slower league which would make him look better. Fail to believe we are done strengthening midfield. 

[Danny_Villaman84]

On 17/06/2022 at 12:17, tomav84 said:

yeah i'm one of them. i think he's rubbish as a 6 (which most i think agree with) but as an 8 i also think we have miles better at the club. i think sanson is better on the ball and is a better passer, mcginn has better tackling and work rate, and ramsey offers more of a goal threat. adding in kamara who can play as an 8 too, plus chuk, and maybe even another CM from the transfer market, i'd be more than happy to get 30m for him because he's way down in the pecking order for me.

he might well do well at another club...but there have been loads of players that have left villa and become more successful i.e. veretout. doesn't change the fact that they were rubbish for us.

Veretout - ? I think he is did well, but he play with around him is rubbish, not fair drop him. 
Gana - ? Same problem, Manager don't play him as DM, As we play 2 CM, when we fans keep want him play as when he come on and impact defensive better and less goal. 

But they seem like not ready for Premiership but they are huge learn about this level to push improve themself.

In end both left and huge success and play top of European leagues and win title for them, and one of their best player.

I Think Luiz should give new contract, as Brazilian fever at Club and help Phillippe and Carlos better settling down, if someone come offer McGinn. for same price Luiz i would sell him. 

Luiz or McGinn one of them should left the club .(which I think Sanson will left - I hope not cos i want see him and Kamara playing together will make Sanson impressive manager and show he better understand Kamara will push him back high level he use play for Marsille) 

[TRO]

I find it puzzling, how he can be linked with Roma for as long as he has.....and no action.

surely, if they was interested they would have moved, by now.

[MaVilla]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

I find it puzzling, how he can be linked with Roma for as long as he has.....and no action.

surely, if they was interested they would have moved, by now.

maybe they do want him but they dont want to pay anything for him, so they are making their interest "public" to help him decide not to sign another contract......

who knows.