Ratings & Reactions: Brentford v Villa

[TRO]

7 hours ago, A'Villan said:

Bruce started his tenure with a near 60% win rate which lasted for almost two months before declining.

Then this time two years ago we lost 5 on the trot including a 3-0 to Brentford and a 3-1 to Barnsley. Far worse than Smith has seen.

Bruce finished that season with us in 13th, his win rate being chopped in half from his initial results. What went wrong there?

Next season he went on to have us finish as the 4th best team, with a points haul that might gain automatic promotion in previous years.

Obviously there's a myriad of factors that are at play in determining how well a team gels and performs.

But, to put it in a nutshell, I think our recent 'dip' in form, like what happened under Bruce, can be considered growing pains.

It might be more serious than we all think, which would be unfortunate. I'd be curious to know why you are inclined to suggest that though?

I'm not concerned with the appointment of Smith or what he can bring to the table at this point, he's shown already that he can turn us into league leaders.

The next step is producing it over the length of a season and on any given day rather than for a short lived month or two, amounting to little.

Unfortunately, for me, there is a concern that the season that it comes together needs to be this one, due to circumstances outside his control.

But that is just a FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real) and not something I can really explore as I'm not informed on the ins and outs of behind scenes happenings.

 

 

 

I don't think it is very helpful comparing the 2 managers, because the circumstances are so much different. To keep defaulting back to SB ( like some do)i think, is unhelpful...we know the model the club chose and it will take some time to change away from it....It wasn't the complete disaster, some folk claim, we just missed out in a season when 3 clubs emerged with consistent qualities, unlike this season.....I am not trying to big up Steve Bruce, that would be stupid, but we can't forget he did secure 24 wins in a normal season that may have sufficed.....However, If we had of gone up that may have delayed another disaster, every cloud and all that.

When I talk about "Serious" I am not alluding to changing the manager....I am talking about how low this team has got....Many of the basics are not there AV, its not just the odd player struggling, its more about the odd player, not being affected by the slump. Personally watching the craft on the pitch, I think we are worse than what is being said..Fans will naturally try to be positive.

Every fan will have there own take on it....and in the main it will be influenced by their acceptance of Steve Bruce or Dean Smith....Dean had that look of a little lost boy on his face after the game, in complete contrast to the bouncing confident character that breezed in to Villa Park in October....He needs to be left alone now to get on with the job and sadly the press don't help with all the questioning....He needs to try an lock himself away on the training pitch and try and figure it out.

I think you are right when you say its a myriad of factors....this assembly of players has not looked like a team for some time now, despite having some household names in their line ups.....The other worry for me is how we find it so difficult to find quality players at low prices like teams like Norwich, Bristol City, Etc....We have to pay heavy and through the nose for players who have trouble living up to their reputations.....That for me is another serious worry, because I don't see how we are going to get out of this. I hear folk say we need a summer....I don't doubt their sincerity, it makes sense, but then you ask yourself, who is going to find these little gems we so crave, fro modest fee's....Norwich have rebuilt in the main with free transfers, our free transfers would be other clubs rubbish....we show little sophistication in the transfer market IMV, coming up with the odd gem like John McGinn, who is worrying becoming overloaded with our problems too.

For me, we are very much in a catch 22 with most things connected with the club....I am hoping the new owners are not like the old owners and that a sensible management platform is/will be installed, but that too takes time to see the benefits.

The fans need to play their part now, by not expecting, what is not going to be delivered and see if we can get some incremental improvement between now and the end of the season to be " Prepared" for next season.

but we all must remember " Time" in isolation will achieve nothing it has to be associated  with other crucial factors/action that delivers the incremental improvement.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

And a few weeks ago we were only 3 points off. Then we were only 4 points off. Now we're only 7 points off.

And all the teams in the playoffs have a game in hand so it could very easily be 10 points off.

 

I think there is very very little chance of us making the playoffs this season.

I think you only have watch us play, as opposed to analysing results and calculating sequences to know we are not going up.

The issues on the pitch from too many are too poor to have any ambition at present....too many fundamentals not right IMO

[Raver50032]

A deflating night really from start to finish. The stats confirm a bit of a harrowing horror show of incompetence and disbelief in the latest instalment of the 'Brentford Bummings.' For me, that's it for the season now - pooooooof... Like most of the players, very little interest in the remaining fixtures now. Time for Smith to experiment with systems and young players he might want to consider (or be forced to consider for FFP reasons) playing next season. Play 'try not to lose' football on Saturday and away at the Sty, and nothing else really matters now other than looking ahead to future challenges.

Grealish isn't going to resolve this... and I think the summer cannot come soon enough now for Smith. He really starts to earn his money for me from the final whistle at Carrow Road.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, brummybloke said:

League position wise we were better, they out played us not because our players are rubbish, there's more than 11 to choose from, but a combination of players and tactics were yet again, not good enough.

 

When we played free flowing football it was down to Smith and his player selection and tactics, but when we lose or draw which has been A LOT in recent months, it's not his fault it's the rubbish players ?

 

I really want him to do well for a few reasons but he's getting worse each and every week results wise. There are no excuses unless we have half the first team out injured or the ref is clearly cheating.

We were out played for a few reasons, one being not one player could control the ball, couldn't judge a pass and couldn't judge when to carry the ball or pass it.

It was seriously that bad I honestly am thinking they train with different spec footballs than the matchday ones. 

 

I could control a fly away or what ever people call those cheap plastic footballs nowadays better than the players could tonight.

 

I thought the idea of training was to improve, not look worse each week ?

 

I'm not angry , I'm disappointed, Smith hadn't just let the fans down, he's let himself down *

 

*my nans words about me more often than not while I grew up.

It was that bad and its a major worry for anyone that cares about this team.

Any manager has to sort it out....but he has to lock himself away from constant questioning and work his way through it.

He won't fix it in one foul swoop....he has to do it in bite size chunks

Edited February 14, 2019 by TRO

[lapal_fan]

  I didn't even know we played last night. 

[newhavenhibby]

Hoped that the heroics against Sheffield United would help you kick on. Didn't see the game so cannot really comment on last night but would seem the game is being lost in midfield. McGinn a little lost without playmaker Grealish in the side?

Although Grealish won't be the total answer to Villas troubles I still feel when he is back the team will improve. McGinn did his best for us when Scott Allan played alongside him so feel he needs that type of midfielder so lets hope Grealish is back soon.........there was talk Grealish would be back for last Fridays game but obviously not so.

Like us, you are going through a tough time so feel for you, but all one can do is keep believing in the Club and look forward to better times which will come at some point.

Board members, managers and players come and go but AVFC and the fans will always be there so keep the faith. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by newhavenhibby

[John]

13 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

So, that was 2018-19. 

We're nothing at the moment, no drive, no plan, no effort. I hate to think that these players might switch off now that the playoffs are gone. On Saturday we'll have to watch the Albion bury us and then it's a long run of rubbish til the end of the season, including a troubling trip to the sty.

What's worse is that of the players that started tonight, only Kalinic, Hourihane and McGinn will be here for the start of next season. We have a massive rebuilding job to do and we've got to do it on an FFP budget. From where we are right now I'd have to say I think it's very unlikely we'll be able to build a squad capable of competing for promotion next season - we're about seventeen players short - which would be amusing if it were an exaggeration.

It's the long haul.

Fair play to Brentford who were easily the better side on the night and fully deserved to win.

 

 

Well made points as usual. It's as grim as you have painted it isn't it? 

Have they really been switched on since mid December? At best they have been switched on for part of some of our games for me. 

I really hope that McGinn is still with us next season. I worry that clubs like Burnley, Leeds and Everton will look down at the clubs that are left down here in the summer and will offer them an escape route to the top flight. McGinn seems to me, as obvious a target as Jack was last summer.  

I'm hoping we show up for the Albion and Small Heath games at least. The players owe us that.....

[Robtaylor200]

I am confused

Before Christmas  we were looking forward to a hard run of 9 games and only expecting a few points. We scored goals for fun, attacked everything and gave hope for the "easy" run in January. We now have some better players and are playing worse. We were always on the front foot. Now we hold on and hope for a breakaway. 

I cant get my head around it. But I am not a football manager. FFS Deano sort this crap, watch some replays of 2018 and work out what changed. That's what your paid for 

[lapal_fan]

As I said, I didn't even know we played last night, but I did go to Friday's game and for 80 minutes we were absolutely awful.  I don't get angry at football games, but even I was getting pretty pissed off with a lack of effort from players like Kodjia (in particular).  Jedinak I even had some sympathy for as he was just slow, hadn't played in an age and couldn't pass 5 yards, but at least he tried - same goes for Taylor - not a great player, but he does put effort in. 

But in that game (and from the posts about this game), we have absolutely no off the ball movement, we are easily telegraphed (you know where the pass is before the player does) and we really suffer from a lack of dynamism.  If you were an opposing manager, you know you have to hit us on the break and get to the wings quickly because our full backs get forward, but can't get back.  You know crosses high or low are going to cause chaos because we won't have anyone there to stop them going in, and we don't have much height in defence.  You know that if you intercept in the middle of the park we struggle to get back because we lack pace in midfield. 

It's all just too easy for the opponents when we don't have the ball and they sit back and hit us on the break.  Sheff United did it very well for 80 minutes and played with lots of width and numbers in midfield.  We had the lions share of possession, but we got to the corner of the 18 yard box, then relied on very lethargic and easily read wingers to beat a man to 1 man (Tammy) in the box - easy.  I'm not sure why Sheff Utd went so deep after we got our first, but it was their only fatal mistake + we went absolutely gung ho with Elphick joining in with attacks and Mings doing a **** tonne of work on his own.  

We are absolutely by the numbers. we rarely get bodies close to each other for 1 or even 2 touch football, and we certainly don't have players who can beat a man with pace or trickery (apart form McGinn who is very cute with the ball (Kenneth!).   

It was boring and painful to watch Friday - apart from Jack missing.. I'm not sure what else has changed.  And if it is all down to Jack, then we're in pretty big **** trouble in the summer. 

[onmeedson]

All I want is for someone to take charge, clear out the dross the alto egos  and the just useless. I am not a great believer in one man teams and the rest play homage to that player so young eager future talent would be an area I would like to go, a few old heads and a mix of younger fresh legged  keen to learn footballers. I hope smith can do that but our coaches need to be looked at and maybe a new approach and not just go down the retired footballer route. Now is smiths time I hope he rises to it.

[AvfcRigo82]

What hapoened to Dean Smith's philosophy that we will "Kill teams off by half time"? - We look dead ourselves by the time it gets to half time!

He is not the man to take us forward. He needs replaced at the end of the season!

Edited February 14, 2019 by AvfcRigo82

[Junxs]

16 hours ago, Talldarkandransome said:

Mings good

Worst game so far for McGinn and Abraham. Should have had a pen but again not really deserved to win.

Bit frustrating really

If you're talking about the challenge on Abraham, then sorry but no. Abraham was already on his way down and made sure there was contact on his way down by hanging his leg out to make sure there was contact and make it look like their player fouled him. I'm glad it wasnt given as its just a form of diving/cheating. Something Ashley Young used to do all the time that I didnt like it. 

[AntrimBlack]

14 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

And a few weeks ago we were only 3 points off. Then we were only 4 points off. Now we're only 7 points off.

And all the teams in the playoffs have a game in hand so it could very easily be 10 points off.

 

I think there is very very little chance of us making the playoffs this season.

Agreed.

[A'Villan]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't think it is very helpful comparing the 2 managers, because the circumstances are so much different. To keep defaulting back to SB ( like some do)i think, is unhelpful...we know the model the club chose and it will take some time to change away from it....It wasn't the complete disaster, some folk claim, we just missed out in a season when 3 clubs emerged with consistent qualities, unlike this season.....I am not trying to big up Steve Bruce, that would be stupid, but we can't forget he did secure 24 wins in a normal season that may have sufficed.....However, If we had of gone up that may have delayed another disaster, every cloud and all that.

When I talk about "Serious" I am not alluding to changing the manager....I am talking about how low this team has got....Many of the basics are not there AV, its not just the odd player struggling, its more about the odd player, not being affected by the slump. Personally watching the craft on the pitch, I think we are worse than what is being said..Fans will naturally try to be positive.

Every fan will have there own take on it....and in the main it will be influenced by their acceptance of Steve Bruce or Dean Smith....Dean had that look of a little lost boy on his face after the game, in complete contrast to the bouncing confident character that breezed in to Villa Park in October....He needs to be left alone now to get on with the job and sadly the press don't help with all the questioning....He needs to try an lock himself away on the training pitch and try and figure it out.

I think you are right when you say its a myriad of factors....this assembly of players has not looked like a team for some time now, despite having some household names in their line ups.....The other worry for me is how we find it so difficult to find quality players at low prices like teams like Norwich, Bristol City, Etc....We have to pay heavy and through the nose for players who have trouble living up to their reputations.....That for me is another serious worry, because I don't see how we are going to get out of this. I hear folk say we need a summer....I don't doubt their sincerity, it makes sense, but then you ask yourself, who is going to find these little gems we so crave, fro modest fee's....Norwich have rebuilt in the main with free transfers, our free transfers would be other clubs rubbish....we show little sophistication in the transfer market IMV, coming up with the odd gem like John McGinn, who is worrying becoming overloaded with our problems too.

For me, we are very much in a catch 22 with most things connected with the club....I am hoping the new owners are not like the old owners and that a sensible management platform is/will be installed, but that too takes time to see the benefits.

The fans need to play their part now, by not expecting, what is not going to be delivered and see if we can get some incremental improvement between now and the end of the season to be " Prepared" for next season.

but we all must remember " Time" in isolation will achieve nothing it has to be associated  with other crucial factors/action that delivers the incremental improvement.

 

 

Well said. Most of that gets the nod from me.

My comparison to Bruce was intended to illustrate how bad things got on the pitch under Bruce too. Yet he was afforded some time and came good for the most part.

You mention time in isolation achieving nothing. Another reason I make comparison to Bruce is that Bruce did not have us as league leaders in areas that Smith did.

You're right, circumstances are different, Bruce adopted a club void of any sign of salvation from the downward trajectory it was in. Smith has renewed expectations to deal with.

I'm not trying to give an all encompassing account of things, I know jack s*** outside what I view and read from over here in Australia. So probably very little.

One thing I found interesting was the commentary on my stream. You know how Brentford have their 'system' of analysis used to assist decision making and scout talent?

Well, according to that system, they should be sitting in 7th. Funnily enough, it wouldn't surprise me if that account had some merit to it.

We have dropped points where more often than not we walk away victors. We have dropped points where other teams get a cheap result against the run of play.

The margins are so fine. That's why Bielsa is hitting up training grounds and watching endless hours of footage. Every inch is an edge.

As I have said elsewhere, Brentford might've been the first game I've seen in full since the draw to QPR at home. I've only seen highlights otherwise.

I did watch the games in November and December in full except for  Leeds and I saw us play in a way that really troubled the top end of the table and some.

So it's no wonder I'm inclined to be optimistic about Smith being able to find his feet. I haven't seen the poor performances of recent.

 

[A'Villan]

2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

As I said, I didn't even know we played last night, but I did go to Friday's game and for 80 minutes we were absolutely awful.  I don't get angry at football games, but even I was getting pretty pissed off with a lack of effort from players like Kodjia (in particular).  Jedinak I even had some sympathy for as he was just slow, hadn't played in an age and couldn't pass 5 yards, but at least he tried - same goes for Taylor - not a great player, but he does put effort in. 

But in that game (and from the posts about this game), we have absolutely no off the ball movement, we are easily telegraphed (you know where the pass is before the player does) and we really suffer from a lack of dynamism.  If you were an opposing manager, you know you have to hit us on the break and get to the wings quickly because our full backs get forward, but can't get back.  You know crosses high or low are going to cause chaos because we won't have anyone there to stop them going in, and we don't have much height in defence.  You know that if you intercept in the middle of the park we struggle to get back because we lack pace in midfield. 

It's all just too easy for the opponents when we don't have the ball and they sit back and hit us on the break.  Sheff United did it very well for 80 minutes and played with lots of width and numbers in midfield.  We had the lions share of possession, but we got to the corner of the 18 yard box, then relied on very lethargic and easily read wingers to beat a man to 1 man (Tammy) in the box - easy.  I'm not sure why Sheff Utd went so deep after we got our first, but it was their only fatal mistake + we went absolutely gung ho with Elphick joining in with attacks and Mings doing a **** tonne of work on his own.  

We are absolutely by the numbers. we rarely get bodies close to each other for 1 or even 2 touch football, and we certainly don't have players who can beat a man with pace or trickery (apart form McGinn who is very cute with the ball (Kenneth!).   

It was boring and painful to watch Friday - apart from Jack missing.. I'm not sure what else has changed.  And if it is all down to Jack, then we're in pretty big **** trouble in the summer. 

I woke up and saw 2-0 to Sheffield United and thought no way am I turning this on to watch! Gobsmacked that we pulled that one back to a draw.

Brentford simply dominated the ball. They didn't need to hit us on the break, they were comfortable in possession and set the tempo.

We didn't get the ball passed the halfway line for the first 10 minutes, forget the final third! After 90 minutes we had two shots which were of any significance.

Brentford didn't have all that many more but they were constantly penetrating (giggity) and supporting each other in attack, they had the ball in ideal positions for most of it.

It was an error by Elphick that led to the equaliser. Misjudged the timing and Muapay or whatever his name is punished.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Well said. Most of that gets the nod from me.

My comparison to Bruce was intended to illustrate how bad things got on the pitch under Bruce too. Yet he was afforded some time and came good for the most part.

You mention time in isolation achieving nothing. Another reason I make comparison to Bruce is that Bruce did not have us as league leaders in areas that Smith did.

You're right, circumstances are different, Bruce adopted a club void of any sign of salvation from the downward trajectory it was in. Smith has renewed expectations to deal with.

I'm not trying to give an all encompassing account of things, I know jack s*** outside what I view and read from over here in Australia. So probably very little.

One thing I found interesting was the commentary on my stream. You know how Brentford have their 'system' of analysis used to assist decision making and scout talent?

Well, according to that system, they should be sitting in 7th. Funnily enough, it wouldn't surprise me if that account had some merit to it.

We have dropped points where more often than not we walk away victors. We have dropped points where other teams get a cheap result against the run of play.

The margins are so fine. That's why Bielsa is hitting up training grounds and watching endless hours of footage. Every inch is an edge.

As I have said elsewhere, Brentford might've been the first game I've seen in full since the draw to QPR at home. I've only seen highlights otherwise.

I did watch the games in November and December in full except for  Leeds and I saw us play in a way that really troubled the top end of the table and some.

So it's no wonder I'm inclined to be optimistic about Smith being able to find his feet. I haven't seen the poor performances of recent.

 

For me there are fundamental things missing from our play....some of the stuff should not be missing, that's the worry.

I have seen the same things when we have won,but not as highlighted, because as you know, winning games masks over issues. We usually have moments in a game when we score  and go on to win or draw and it negates the poor quality of our ball control etc.

Jack is the only one you can hang your hat on for ball control.....that is poor for a club like ours, but you can see why we miss him.

All clubs have problems like this, but we just have too many players with too many individual issues.

The club need to be planning now for next season.

" Prepared"

 

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

I woke up and saw 2-0 to Sheffield United and thought no way am I turning this on to watch! Gobsmacked that we pulled that one back to a draw.

Brentford simply dominated the ball. They didn't need to hit us on the break, they were comfortable in possession and set the tempo.

We didn't get the ball passed the halfway line for the first 10 minutes, forget the final third! After 90 minutes we had two shots which were of any significance.

Brentford didn't have all that many more but they were constantly penetrating (giggity) and supporting each other in attack, they had the ball in ideal positions for most of it.

It was an error by Elphick that led to the equaliser. Misjudged the timing and Muapay or whatever his name is punished.

We could so easily have won or drawn that game....but it would have masked over the fundamental issues.

Elphick did make a mistake....but Maupay to his credit dribbled the ball through the 2 centre backs very well, his quick feet, bamboozled them....that's what ball control does for you....Jack has it , but many of our players don't.

Edited February 14, 2019 by TRO

[Stuartc445]

17 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Dean Smith at fault for missing sitters and assembling shit squad in 4 transfer windows

Under Bruce this squad had it's faults (the defence and keeper)  but it never lacked goals and it never lacked fight.  Under Smith we have a good keeper but the defence is still a problem but it now lacks goals and fight.  Lacking fight is unforgivable for me it don't matter how poor the squad is (imo this squad isn't as bad as some who refuse to accept Smith makes mistakes will have you believe) you should never lack fight and whatever Smith has done whilst he has been here he has removed the fight. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

Under Bruce this squad had it's faults (the defence and keeper)  but it never lacked goals and it never lacked fight.  Under Smith we have a good keeper but the defence is still a problem but it now lacks goals and fight.  Lacking fight is unforgivable for me it don't matter how poor the squad is (imo this squad isn't as bad as some who refuse to accept Smith makes mistakes will have you believe) you should never lack fight and whatever Smith has done whilst he has been here he has removed the fight. 

Something is not right that is for sure....The fight generally has been an issue for some time for me, not as bad granted, but always there......QPR at home last season after the Wolves game, Bolton away in the snow.

They are not a team for me blessed with natural aggression ( Johnny Mac excluded)....One how embarrassing.....one fan wrote recently we are a team full of grafters, I wish...anything but.....The running we do is passive and shadowing.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

Under Bruce this squad had it's faults (the defence and keeper)  but it never lacked goals and it never lacked fight.  Under Smith we have a good keeper but the defence is still a problem but it now lacks goals and fight.  Lacking fight is unforgivable for me it don't matter how poor the squad is (imo this squad isn't as bad as some who refuse to accept Smith makes mistakes will have you believe) you should never lack fight and whatever Smith has done whilst he has been here he has removed the fight. 

Me too....its insipid.