StefanAVFC Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Like, there are people claiming that Mings doesn't make any more mistakes than the ordinary CB which I find patently untrue. Who's saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 To anyone who thinks that Konsa and Mings were of equal quality last night, please explain this away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: Who's saying that? I don't remember their names, but it's definitely been said around here. The argument usually goes something like "Mings doesn't make any more mistakes then usual, it's just there's a bigger microscope on him." Or "every player makes mistakes, Mings doesn't make anymore than usual". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, a m ole said: @Phil Silvers can you post more gifs please? Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Did Mings have a good game yesterday? No Was he at fault for everything that went wrong? Far from it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 minute ago, lexicon said: To anyone who thinks that Konsa and Mings were of equal quality last night, please explain this away. I wouldn't use whoscored ratings for CBs, but anyway the red card and off the line clearance are the major things affecting the ratings here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: I wouldn't use whoscored ratings for CBs, but anyway the red card and off the line clearance are the major things affecting the ratings here. To be fair, the clearance off the line is equivalent to a striker scoring. I think it would be equally unfair to say 'yeah don't pay attention to the striker's score, if you factor in his goal.' Edited February 10, 2022 by StefanAVFC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 7 hours ago, samjp26 said: I’ve still seen nobody explain why after every mistake he makes, he needs to all of a sudden try to become a centre forward. Guy gets too emotional and tries to become he-man, just focus on your job. I personally feel his emotions get to him whenever he knows he makes a mistake and that’s why he continues to make more, because he begins to act irrational. He’s allowed to make a mistake but whenever it happens it’s followed by him trying to become an attacker, he wants to make up for it, which is admirable but in a team sport just know your role and shut your mouth as The Rock once said. FYI: Mings is trending on Twitter tonight for his bad performance - but yeah, big agenda. Agenda from all those people tweeting too 100%. We've scored goals from Mings bringing the ball out from the back. He wasn't doing it because he made a mistake he was doing it because it was working pretty well. His forward runs got us into some dangerous positions at a time when we were struggling to get a foothold in the game. I generally don't have much issue with Mings doing it because it can be effective and he tends to pick the right moments to do it. The one forward run I would question would be the one that Konsa made shortly before their second goal. We were 3-1 up having just had our most dominant spell of the game and I'm not sure Konsa has the ability on the ball to be running out from the back. He gave the ball away and we were immediately under pressure from the Leeds counter attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: To be fair, the clearance off the line is equivalent to a striker scoring. I think it would be equally unfair to say 'yeah don't pay attention to the striker's score, if you factor in his goal.' Of course. Ignoring the 7 clearances to 1, 3 blocked shots to 0, 2 interceptions to 0 and then saying - well yeah it was only because of the goal line clearance to save that certain goal while the other guy got sent off for two stupid yellows... This is why I don't engage with people like that tbf. Edited February 10, 2022 by blandy mod edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tom_avfc Posted February 10, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2022 39 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Of course. But the further back you go in the team, the lower the tolerance for those mistakes is. Goalkeepers can't make any mistakes. Centrebacks hardly any. It's not fair but that's the way it is. We can't have centrebacks making mistakes every week I think this is a bit of a simplistic way of looking at things. Mings covers for a lot of mistakes made by other players whereas it seems every minor mistake that Mings makes leads to goals. Now that's probably more likely to be the case with a centre back but I think Konsa gets away with a lot because of Mings covering. Even just looking at last nights game there's three incidents which stand out. The first Leeds goal Mings has made a slight miscontrol (I think its harsh to even call this an error but it happened). Dan James is then in a one on one with Konsa who he turns this way and that before shooting the ball through his legs. I'd argue that if the roles were reversed we'd be more likely to see Mings get a block or a tackle in to cover for the initial "mistake". Secondly someone loses their man completely from a corner giving them a free header which Mings clears off the line quite impressively. Another mistake that someone (I believe it was Konsa again) has got away with because of Mings. From the next corner yet again a Leeds player has a free header on goal. Mings is back in position to cover again and makes an off balance clearance which falls to a Leeds player. The ball could have gone anywhere and you'd like to think the rest of our defence would be alert enough to help him out but its one that people will put down as a Mings mistake again. This is just from one game but I think there's a pattern in the season whereby Mings covers for other's mistakes and doesn't get much help when he makes one himself. I've seen plenty of comments saying that Mings looked like he was our entire defence last night and it has seemed that way for large parts of the season. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Mings last night had an ok game as far as I'm concerned. The goal where James won a header against him was a bit messy, you had Buendia nudging James into Mings, which meant he couldn't get the elevation. I'm also sure there was probably an element in the moment, where a lofty ball is 5 yards from the goal line where he thought "Martinez will come and collect this" too. Attacking wise he was very good. He did 2 drives with the ball (after their second, just before halftime where Digne should have used his right foot to curl a pretty straightforward shot into their net and another in the second half where he dribbled past 2 players and wanted it back once he breached their defence. There was also moments where his header nearly went in to make it 1-1 from a corner and also, he got a foul from a dribble near their box, but the FK he won didn't come to anything. For their 3rd goal, arguably he should have got more on the ball to clear it, it was a panicky swipe at the ball which dropped at Llorente's feet and he swept it home - on another day that's row Z. But if you look at the screenshots @StefanAVFC posted previous page, where Konsa is basically playing in Cash's position, Mings is in a good position on the 6 yard line. Konsa was the broken link in that Konsa, Martinez, Mings chain, NOT Mings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Just now, lapal_fan said: For their 3rd goal, arguably he should have got more on the ball to clear it, it was a panicky swipe at the ball which dropped at Llorente's feet and he swept it home - on another day that's row Z. dont get me wrong im a shit sunday league player not an england international but i think that's a lot harder than it looks its disappointing and i think he should do better mainly because its not that good or powerful a header but at the same time its still a free header 6 yards out because cash was really poor marking him overall my main bone of contention with it is the idea that its a mistake, its not good defending but its not a mistake, its just poor reactions, it happens and it happens to everyone 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, villa4europe said: overall my main bone of contention with it is the idea that its a mistake, its not good defending but its not a mistake, its just poor reactions, it happens and it happens to everyone Yep. Same with the first goal. The ball is stuck under his feet; he's made a good tackle and then James is onto him. He's a factor in the goal for sure but it isn't a mistake and it isn't only his involvement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Whilst it looked great when he brings the ball forward - We certainly have other players capable of driving deep into the opposition half. I think he should reserve his energies \ attention for doing his defensive duties. Im hoping Stevie G is having that conversation this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, hippo said: Whilst it looked great when he brings the ball forward - We certainly have other players capable of driving deep into the opposition half. I think he should reserve his energies \ attention for doing his defensive duties. Im hoping Stevie G is having that conversation this morning. Did we have other players doing this though? At the time that he was doing this we didn't really seem to have anybody coming to take the ball of the defence. The fact that his runs led to some of our more dangerous attacking moments suggests to me that Gerrard won't be massively concerned by it. Edited February 10, 2022 by tom_avfc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Just now, tom_avfc said: Did we have other players doing this though? At the time that he was doing this we didn't really seem to have anybody coming to take the ball of the defence. The fact that his runs led to some of our more dangerous attacking moments suggests to me that Gerrard won't be massively concerned by it. Fair point. But IMO Mings is there primarily to defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 minute ago, hippo said: Fair point. But IMO Mings is there primarily to defend. My personal concerns with him going forward like he does is he always does it following a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 55 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Ball watching? Do you know what ball watching means? What else should he be doing when the ball is directly above him and coming down onto his head? The only ball watching in that goal was Luiz/Coutinho, and then Buendia, who's so focused on the ball he completely distracts Mings and his ability to clear it. If other players do their basic jobs, it doesn't even get to the point where Mings has to try and head the ball. It was Luiz - the fact that coutinho who was further away made the defensive run to try and cover the runner was poor from McGinn but mainly Luiz. It could be argued McGinn covered the pull back. But Luiz didn’t react. Which is the main reason imo they scored their second. The still you posted is quite damning for Luiz (especially) there. Had he tracked the runner they don’t score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 He does keep making mistakes. Or rather at least one major mistake per game. I also think if there is an agenda, its to overly protect him. He does get excessive criticism at times but to claim he's faultless is a head scratcher to me. Example: the first goal he has his pocket picked in the box. Second he isn't strong enough and allows a guy a foot shorter to win a header on the line. Third goal he rolls the ball to a Leeds player in the 6 yard box. Other players played their part in these goals too, but how can anybody say Mings wasn't at fault at least in part? It was a dreadful defensive performance and Tyrone was part of that. I love the guy, but he makes too many mistakes lately and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) Bleh Edited February 10, 2022 by Mazrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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