Popular Post villa4europe Posted June 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2021 I literally have no knowledge of BLM the political organisation bar reading various bits of guff on social media I would lazily guess that 99% of people are the same, including those booing Everything you are saying is what the racists want you to believe so that they can derail and then disregard this call for equality, its utter bullshit At least with kaepernick the anti military bullshit was plausible, we've cooked up a quite incredible amount of bullshit in this country to try and stop this, it doesn't even make sense 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: I imagine the majority of people booing are white working class conservatives who would be happy to support a generic movement that was seeking equality for everyone This is that generic movement and they're not supporting it. Someone who attached themselves to BLM saying something controversial doesn't make the movement controversial. In the same way that if the same person said something about being vegan it wouldn't make it a vegan movement. It's just an incredibly thinly veiled red herring to distract from the fact that this isn't a political party movement, it's just a call to raise awareness and reduce racial abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 9, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Maybe I'm being naive, but I genuinely don't think people would boo that. Maybe there's some genuine racists mixed in so there'd still be a few boos, but I think most of it is down to the specific BLM link and the modern political environment where identity politics seems to be everywhere. Personally I think the BLM political organisation is uniquely toxic because some leaders / high profile activists are on record saying some pretty divisive things (anti-white racism, the infamous Marxism quote, etc) and they peddle the sort of rhetoric that implies only black people get to define what racism is or that behaviour that is unacceptable for a majority (i.e. white people) is totally fine if done by a minority (i.e. black people) because of the power imbalance between those groups. It's quite a contrast from older messages of anti-racism which were focused primarily on achieving equal treatment of people from different races, and honestly it's a vision of society that I've got no interest in supporting despite being generally supportive of the black rights movement. Anyway, I imagine the majority of people booing are white working class conservatives who would be happy to support a generic movement that was seeking equality for everyone, but have a strong negative reaction to BLM. In other words, I suspect they're not thinking "black people are worse than me" but rather "black people aren't better than me" when they boo players taking the knee. That's my reading of the situation anyway. The people booing are racists. The whole BLM/marxist shite is a smokescreen to deflect from their racism 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The people booing are racists. The whole BLM/marxist shite is a smokescreen to deflect from their racism I dunno... I think with the influence social media has and how little people seem to educate themselves on politics before jumping in with both feet I think there's a small percentage of them that might not be racist - they're utterly **** stupid - but maybe not racist So it's pick your poison, racist or a **** idiot, you're one or the other though, no rational thinker could ever believe a valid reason for booing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 David Squires on … the unlikely Marxist takeover of English football | Football | The Guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 9, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I dunno... I think with the influence social media has and how little people seem to educate themselves on politics before jumping in with both feet I think there's a small percentage of them that might not be racist - they're utterly **** stupid - but maybe not racist So it's pick your poison, racist or a **** idiot, you're one or the other though, no rational thinker could ever believe a valid reason for booing There may be a small percentage, but it's small. Like I've said before, the vast vast majority are not booing because of politics. And if they claim they are they're just doing it because it's better than saying "I don't like black people" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: That's hardly an unreasonable viewpoint though. Taking the knee in football was explicitly done in support of BLM when it began, and now football has decided to distance themselves from BLM without actually stopping doing the one gesture most heavily linked to BLM. So why not stop taking the knee and do literally anything else in support of generic anti-racism instead? Why not clearly distance themselves from BLM? Sure, you can argue about whether the BLM political movement or the generic non-capitalised black lives matter social movement first popularised taking the knee, but it's impossible to deny that the two are inextricably linked at this point. So why not sidestep the issue entirely and do something other than taking the knee? Utimately actions speak louder than words for many people. Feels like the PL / FA is scared of the backlash that might come if they properly distanced themselves from BLM, so they've kinda just done a half-arsed job of it and were hoping nobody would notice. The knee was started by Colin Kaepernick and had nothing to do with BLM the organization or even the movement. Citing BLM as your opposition to the gesture is nothing more than a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted June 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2021 The irony is that Kaep picked the knee as a gesture as he thought it would be the most respectful and cause the least controversy. Of course it did nothing but cause controversy, and racists are finding unique and creative ways to oppose it without seeming outright racist. They'll always oppose it, and we should never bow to them and try to sanitize the message because they'll never be satisfied until you STFU. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: The knee was started by Colin Kaepernick and had nothing to do with BLM the organization or even the movement. Citing BLM as your opposition to the gesture is nothing more than a red herring. I'm aware of that, but it was extremely widely used in the BLM marches against police brutality over in the US following George Floyd's death. There's loads of pictures of protesters doing it in front of lines of police (and some of police doing it with them). And then PL players started taking the knee at games while literally having "BLACK LIVES MATTER" (every player, not just Tyrone) printed on their shirts as seen in the image below. As @tomav84 mentioned in an earlier post, I imagine the PL would probably not print BLM on the back of the shirts if they could go back in time. But they can't, so they have to live with the fact they chose to explicitly link their protest to the Black Lives Matter movement. Given what was happening on the streets in the US at the time, I understand why they did it, but it then means you have to make more effort if you want to distance yourself at a later date. And honestly I don't think they did make that extra effort, else they'd currently be doing something other than kneeling. So while I don't condone the booing I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that taking the knee in football never had anything to do with the BLM movement, and I can certainly see why not everyone views taking the knee as purely apolitical. And if you view this as actively political, I can see why you might consider this fair game to boo this in a way you wouldn't boo a generic anti-racism campaign (as I mentioned in an earlier post, I'd probably boo an anti-vaxx or pro-Brexit message). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 There's nothing wrong with the BLM movement, or even Marxism for that matter. It's all a red herring. If the PL changed the gesture to something unrelated to BLM the same people will find another problem with it because their problem is with the purpose behind the gesture itself, not some organization, or the means of production. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Crucial point on this: (Melanie Phillips, Anders Breivik's favourite thinker, if I recall correctly) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Also important to note I think is that Cultural Marxism is a very nasty anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that unsurprisingly dates back to Nazi Germany. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: Also important to note I think is that Cultural Marxism is a very nasty anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that unsurprisingly dates back to Nazi Germany. Sadly, the ship has sailed on that one in the UK; amongst others, the current Attorney General has wielded that one not so long ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) This guy on sky is an idiot. And also clearly a racist. No Room for Racism and Kick it Out =/= BLM Edited June 9, 2021 by MotoMkali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Keyblade said: The irony is that Kaep picked the knee as a gesture as he thought it would be the most respectful and cause the least controversy. It goes even further than that. At the start, he sat down for the anthem at the start of games. He received a lot of hatred for it due to disrespecting the flag. He consulted with his teammate, an ex-serviceman, who suggested taking the knee. Black people didn't even come up with it. A ex-military white bloke did. It's mental how it's come to this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: It goes even further than that. At the start, he sat down for the anthem at the start of games. He received a lot of hatred for it due to disrespecting the flag. He consulted with his teammate, an ex-serviceman, who suggested taking the knee. Black people didn't even come up with it. A ex-military white bloke did. It's mental how it's come to this. Yeah, if that doesn't show how they'll never be satisfied, nothing will. Another layer of irony to this is that because of this, Kaepernick ended up falling victim to the "cancel culture" that these types whine about these days. Literally got blackballed from his own league. Not a peep from these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 What was wrong with the kick it out campaign and why was it replaced? All fans seemed to be behind that. Being from the U.S BLM is a controversial movement there is no doubt about that, it comes to no surprise for me that a good portion of fans are booing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, villalad21 said: What was wrong with the kick it out campaign and why was it replaced? All fans seemed to be behind that. Being from the U.S BLM is a controversial movement there is no doubt about that, it comes to no surprise for me that a good portion of fans are booing it. Kick it out is focused on football and ensuring equality in the game Taking the knee expands in wider society, its not just football anymore l, it's footballers being role models That's the problem here, they're trying / pretending to make it about a controversial movement rather than being about racists, ending racism is not controversial Edited June 9, 2021 by villa4europe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: What was wrong with the kick it out campaign and why was it replaced? All fans seemed to be behind that. Being from the U.S BLM is a controversial movement there is no doubt about that, it comes to no surprise for me that a good portion of fans are booing it. Easy to be "behind" something that you never have to see or hear. As far as I can recall, it entirely consisted of a few shirts and posters. All in good intentions, and I'm sure the campaign did more behind the scenes, but did matchgoing fans ever really notice it? I didn't. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ccfcman Posted June 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Being from the U.S BLM is a controversial movement there is no doubt about that, it comes to no surprise for me that a good portion of fans are booing it. Thing is though, it isn't remotely controversial. Repeatedly stating that it is controversial by right wing media has made it so. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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