Racism in Football

[wilko154]

It actually brought it home to me yesterday when the players knelt at the beginning of the game.

A young asian guy was sat alone next to me, and he said 'Why are they booing?' as the boo's rang out around Villa Park.

It's actually disgusting the way that some people think they can act.

I hope our applause drowned them out.

[OxfordVillan]

27 minutes ago, est1874 said:

If I were heading towards "totalitarian", you'd be heading towards card-carrying national socialism.

The majority aren't buying what you're selling here, they might welcome you with open arms on Stormfront or similar though.

[HolteExile]

1 hour ago, OxfordVillan said:

The organisation that taking the knee originated from is BLM, who are a political Marxist organisation. In a democracy it’s perfectly acceptable for the electorate to display their disapproval of such organisations, organisations that forward agendas such as defunding the police. There’d be no booing/opposition to the players/movement had they adopted a different group/name than BLM, it’s the attachment to that group that results in 99% of opposition to it. Of course there are a small amount of actual racists, but you shouldn’t conflate racists and political movement dissenters. I hope the authorities, along with players like Tyrone, can work together over the summer to come up with something that pulls everyone along with the movement. 
 

In my experience, it's not the finer points of Marxism that worries White Van Man and the others who see Tommy Robinson as some wise sage. 

They see white men taking the knee as somehow subjugating themselves to the black race. 

Domnic Raab summed up the views of Middle England/Middle Earth pretty well last year. But you'd expect that sort of awareness from a person who didn't realize how important GB's most important port may be to trade. 

It's odd to see it that way when it was Colin Kaepernick (mixed race) taking the knee during the US national anthem circa 2016/17 that inspired sportsmen of all races to do similar after Minneapolis last year. There's a conversation to be had about its effectiveness on its own (which is sort of what Zaha was getting at). But actually booing it shows those 'fans' up for the primitives they are. It's sad that the headlines now associate us with behaviour you'd expect from Millwall fans. We don't need that sort of profile, ta very much. 

[osmark86]

2 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

It actually brought it home to me yesterday when the players knelt at the beginning of the game.

A young asian guy was sat alone next to me, and he said 'Why are they booing?' as the boo's rang out around Villa Park.

It's actually disgusting the way that some people think they can act.

I hope our applause drowned them out.

thankfully it did at the end. but booing will always be heard more than claps due to the natural of the sounds, so please NEVER BOO VILLA PLAYERS!

I think it's inexcusable and something I really don't get about English football.

Here in Sweden AIK fans never boo their own team even when they "deserve it". It's just not something you do. 

Also, don't boo anti-racism like a word removed.

Edited May 24, 2021 by osmark86

[Keyblade]

Of course taking a knee is political. Racial justice isn't some innocuous opinion like if the Beatles are good or not.

[Davkaus]

I doubt half of the people booing even know what Marxism is.

[osmark86]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Of course taking a knee is political. Racial justice isn't some innocuous opinion like if the Beatles are good or not.

it obviously is and the people booing know this too. they just try to find complex reasons for it rooted in leftist socioeconomic philosophy because they do not wish to be labeled as the bigots they are.

[osmark86]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I doubt half of the people booing even know what Marxism is.

I'm sure they all have a ph d in political sciences

[7392craig]

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I doubt half of the people booing even know what Marxism is.

That may be true. I do believe that taking the knee is purely a gesture based on their want to oppose any racism. The BLM organisation itself I think is where people are having issues. They are at least aligned to some Marxism beliefs, however that doesn’t  mean that taking the knee itself is support for the BLM organisation, its support for anti racism.

Edited May 24, 2021 by 7392craig

[OxfordVillan]

5 minutes ago, HolteExile said:

In my experience, it's not the finer points of Marxism that worries White Van Man and the others who see Tommy Robinson as some wise sage. 

They see white men taking the knee as somehow subjugating themselves to the black race. 

Domnic Raab summed up the views of Middle England/Middle Earth pretty well last year. But you'd expect that sort of awareness from a person who didn't realize how important GB's most important port may be to trade. 

It's odd to see it that way when it was Colin Kaepernick (mixed race) taking the knee during the US national anthem circa 2016/17 that inspired sportsmen of all races to do similar after Minneapolis last year. There's a conversation to be had about its effectiveness on its own (which is sort of what Zaha was getting at). But actually booing it shows those 'fans' up for the primitives they are. It's sad that the headlines now associate us with behaviour you'd expect from Millwall fans. We don't need that sort of profile, ta very much. 

I find the tone of your reply condescending, however it’s a view that you’re entitled to bring to the table. I don’t think you win hearts and minds by using your type of approach, but each to their own. 

[Mantis]

1 minute ago, 7392craig said:

That may be true. I do believe that taking the knee is purely a gesture based on their want to oppose any racism. The BLM organisation itself I think is where people are having issues. They are at least aligned to some Marxism beliefs, however that doesn’t  mean that taking the knee itself is support for the BLM organisation, its support for anti racism.

Yep. BLM as an organisation are a bit dodgy but the kneeling is just about anti-racism in football in general. It's wrong to boo the kneeling even if you disagree with it.

[7392craig]

Just now, Mantis said:

Yep. BLM as an organisation are a bit dodgy but the kneeling is just about anti-racism in football in general. It's wrong to boo the kneeling even if you disagree with it.

I agree, I think a lot of people have very little trust in BLM, I’m not a fan of group identity politics whichever side you’re on. But most of the players taking the knee won’t be doing it to support BLM, it’ll be because of their individual support towards anti racism. That itself should not be booed.

[Wainy316]

Any excuse to re-share this beaut...

 

[Keyblade]

8 minutes ago, 7392craig said:

That may be true. I do believe that taking the knee is purely a gesture based on their want to oppose any racism. The BLM organisation itself I think is where people are having issues. They are at least aligned to some Marxism beliefs, however that doesn’t  mean that taking the knee itself is support for the BLM organisation, its support for anti racism.

There are a couple of self proclaimed Marxists in the org, but what does that have to do with the movement that is explicitly about racial (in)justice?

Can't say I'm a fan of this weird Red Scare discourse. Some people in an organization believe workers should own the means and fruits of their labour, that's it I'm rescinding my support for *checks notes* Black Lives Matter. Can't be having that, no sir.

[Keyblade]

4 minutes ago, 7392craig said:

I agree, I think a lot of people have very little trust in BLM, I’m not a fan of group identity politics whichever side you’re on. But most of the players taking the knee won’t be doing it to support BLM, it’ll be because of their individual support towards anti racism. That itself should not be booed.

Anti-racism is identity politics.

[Loxstock92]

9 minutes ago, 7392craig said:

That may be true. I do believe that taking the knee is purely a gesture based on their want to oppose any racism. The BLM organisation itself I think is where people are having issues. They are at least aligned to some Marxism beliefs, however that doesn’t  mean that taking the knee itself is support for the BLM organisation, its support for anti racism.

I had a Twitter argument with someone last night who outright refused to acknowledge that there was BLM the organisation and blm the movment as 2 separate things. He just believed they were one and the same so he could justify his position.

he even called a another guy who voted for Boris Johnson a ‘leftie’ because he supported taking the knee!

[7392craig]

 

Just now, Keyblade said:

Anti-racism is identity politics.

Group identity politics is where I’m making the Marxism comparisons.

[7392craig]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

There are a couple of self proclaimed Marxists in the org, but what does that have to do with the movement that is explicitly about racial (in)justice?

Can't say I'm a fan of this weird Red Scare discourse. Some people in an organization believe workers should own the means and fruits of their labour, that's it I'm rescinding my support for *checks notes* Black Lives Matter. Can't be having that, no sir.

The movement and the organisation are not the same. People have trouble separating the two, you can support taking the knee without supporting BLM the organisation.

[HolteExile]

Taking the knee itself was a compromise by Kaepernick as outlined here: 

Quote

 

"When I saw Colin sitting on the bench during the national anthem and I read a headline and saw some pictures, I made a snap judgement based on my experiences," Boyer told Sky correspondent Greg Milam in Los Angeles.

"My relationship with the American flag, with the national anthem - those things are very special to me, because I've served in the military and I've carried a casket draped in an American flag with my best friend in it. I'm going to have a different feeling about those colours and when that flag is raised.

"Even though I was a huge 49ers fan and a Colin Kaepernick fan, I was disappointed. But I wasn't listening to what he was talking about.

"When I went back and actually listened to his first full 18-minute interview in the locker room and heard about why he was doing what he was doing, but also that he had a respect for the military and it wasn't about the military in any way, [I realised] it wasn't even really about the flag or the anthem.

"After the end of these conversations is sort of when he asked me the toughest question. I didn't know this was coming and I was not prepared for it but he asked me: 'Do you think there's another way I can protest or demonstrate that's not going to offend people in the military?'

"And I said no! There's nothing you can do that's not going to offend people in the military.

"The military is the most diverse microcosm in America, I think. There's 20m of us - there's a ton of veterans in this country. We come from all walks of life, all shapes and sizes, colours, political beliefs, religious beliefs. People have this misconception that because we all do everything in uniform when it comes to a mission overseas that we all think the same. It's absolutely not true.

"I thought about it for a minute and I said, 'look, there's nothing you can do.' There's no gesture here that's going to be perfect. And ironically if you choose to just stop sitting on the bench and all of a sudden you're standing for the anthem, there's going to be a whole lot of people that are very upset that you didn't stick to your guns and you didn't see this thing through just because there was a big reaction.

 "I said if you're committed to not standing - which he said he was - I think the only logical solution or gesture, in my opinion, would be to take a knee.

"He thought it was actually more powerful than sitting. He kind of said right then and there, 'that's what I'm going to do'.

"He actually asked if I would take a knee with him. I said I wouldn't. I respect him doing that and I would stand next to him if he did that."

 

 

 

 

[osmark86]

5 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said:

Correct. You’re beyond hearts and minds, in my opinion. The difference being I am labelling an individual as stupid, not an entire section of society, hypothetical or otherwise. UTV

for what it's worth "stupid" wasn't used as a reference to the intelligence of these people if that's how you read it. there are some smart bigoted people obviously. It was more used as a reference to the stupidity of a particular opinion. I'm pretty sure that you would have understood this, but sure, assume I was being dumb if it makes you feel better.