Racism in Football

[villa4europe]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Tell that to Dalian Atkinson. 

Or UEFA when they hand out bigger punishments for breaking their sponsorship policies during the euros than they do for racially abusing players 

[The_Steve]

Racism is systemic, it is woven into the fabric of the country. It took until 2015 to pay off the debt paid to slave owners to give up their slaves. 
 

No police officer has been found guilty of deaths in custody. 
 

Just look at the Stephen Lawrence murder and the institutional racism in the Met. 
 

It’s very easy to reduce racism down to unsocial and hateful people, but it hides the realities that black people are marginalised across society - from employment to housing to access to fair healthcare. 
 

I could go on. Point is, taking the new has power still and I fully support Tyrone and other players doing it. To boo that is a stain on this great club. 

[StefanAVFC]

Always amuses me when white middle class people tell black people there isn't racism. 

[Davkaus]

As a straight, white able-bodied male, I've never encountered any discrimination, and think life is great. Rule Britannia.

[Dale]

1 minute ago, The_Steve said:

Racism is systemic, it is woven into the fabric of the country. It took until 2015 to pay off the debt paid to slave owners to give up their slaves. 
 

No police officer has been found guilty of deaths in custody. 
 

Just look at the Stephen Lawrence murder and the institutional racism in the Met. 
 

It’s very easy to reduce racism down to unsocial and hateful people, but it hides the realities that black people are marginalised across society - from employment to housing to access to fair healthcare. 
 

I could go on. Point is, taking the new has power still and I fully support Tyrone and other players doing it. To boo that is a stain on this great club. 

It's also not a left, right issue. Give me a break. You're telling me that multi-millionaire footballers are taking the knee in order to inspire people to take control of the means of production and for their cash to be given according to needs. It's just bollocks to justify acting like a prick, quite possibly because the boo folks are *whispers* racist.

Tyrone is a first class individual and his leadership on social issues like this, and social media abuse, are reasons that I admire him. He's younger than me, has a bigger platform and uses it for good rather than taking the quiet life. Top man!

[GarethRDR]

24 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Fragrant hypocrisy. 

In the interest of keeping things jovial, is this the term for when I mock people for wearing cheap cologne whilst simultaneously dousing myself with Lynx Africa?

[DCJonah]

55 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said:

I think you think you have more insight than you actually do. I don’t boo, never have done never will. Except at panto. But I defend people’s right to boo, to have a different opinion. If you read back to one of my earlier posts on this topic you will see that I wrote that I hoped the authorities and the players could come together over summer and put together a new initiative against racism that could pull EVERYONE along with it. By that I mean completely sever links with BLM so that people cannot use it as an excuse to boo, criticise, or whatever. By doing so you would leave the real racists with nowhere to hide. 
The reality is that you don’t know me at all, it’s somewhat naive to think you do by reading a few words on a forum. The single thing we know we have in common here is AVFC. Anything else is just misguided guesswork. UTV

I didn't say I know you. I said the more you post the more you reveal. You keep assuming I've said something I haven't. 

I think it's very hypocritical that you've responded to some on here with the sarcastic "you won't change hearts and minds with that approach" yet have no issue with people booing others in public. 

How does that succeed to change hearts and minds? 

[OxfordVillan]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

I didn't say I know you. I said the more you post the more you reveal. You keep assuming I've said something I haven't. 

I think it's very hypocritical that you've responded to some on here with the sarcastic "you won't change hearts and minds with that approach" yet have no issue with people booing others in public. 

How does that succeed to change hearts and minds? 

You’re entitled to your view. UTV

[StefanAVFC]

I drown puppies for sport, UTV

[Panto_Villan]

42 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

someone has literally just posted a video of mings distancing the taking of the knee from the BLM organisation. before games now on the likes of sky etc there is a video where it's specifically stated that it's nothing to do with any organisation. commentators never use the term 'black lives matter' anymore and have presumably been specifically instructed not to use those 3 words.

the taking the knee has been distanced from BLM for some time now....i'm flabbergasted that you have not seen that

Nope, genuinely not seen it. I had to search through about 15 media articles from various sources to get one that mentioned anything other than BLM or just a generic description of "racial equality", and I tend to watch games on tiny rivers which switch channel late (or just tune in late because I'm busy) so I've not seen that many of the pre-match segments this season. So maybe the average fan is much more aware of all this than I am. I saw plenty of news coverage of the PL supporting BLM in the early days, and none about them moving away from it.

Seems like the PL hasn't really actively distanced itself from BLM, though? Given how hard they embraced BLM early on (no criticism for that here, I was also on board at the start) if you just stop saying the words "Black Lives Matter" without pushing "No Room for Racism" equally hard then it's possibly not surprising that everyone hasn't picked up on the distinction. Quite a few of the articles I mentioned above were talking about generic racial equality protects rather than BLM specifically, but I hadn't twigged that that signfied that the PL was no longer overtly supporting the BLM movement because that wasn't mentioned anywhere.

Or are the PL trying to do the corporate thing of sort of distancing themselves, but also not distancing themselves, so they can try to get the best of both worlds? Because it takes more than stopping saying the phrase "black lives matter" to properly distance yourself from a movement if you put those words on your shirts barely six months earlier.

[MotoMkali]

2 hours ago, a m ole said:

He wants to replace ‘Prepared’ with ‘Seize the means of production’ as our official motto.

Replace the star on our logo with a hammer and sickle

[MotoMkali]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I doubt half of the people booing even know what Marxism is.

Mainly because the word is 4 letters too long for them. 

I'm just making jokes. Not actually talking about racism. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by MotoMkali

[Awol]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

So not entirely sure what your point is?

Taking the knee is for equality. Equality is apolitical. The knee is linked to BLM, which has become hugely political. Despite the distancing, you have a problem with taking a knee because sport and politics shouldn't mix.

Wearing a poppy is for remembrance. Remembrance is apolitical. The poppy has been hijacked by a lot of people for political reasons. You have no issue with poppies on shirts.

Fragrant hypocrisy. 

Who has the poppy been hijacked by and for what political reasons? You state it has but haven’t given any examples. Can you? 

I clearly wrote that players taking the knee wasn’t something I cared about, but that as a general point it’s better not to mix football and politics.

The media’s conflation of BLM with football players taking the knee was widespread and explicit, alongside displaying BLM symbology around some of the empty grounds.

It’s not easy to push a narrative that forcefully, and then pivot to reinvent it as something else after the BLM rioting in central London - the point when commentators and pundits started to remove the BLM lapel badges and the rebranding of taking the knee began.

The death (likely manslaughter imo, but the jury will decide) of Dalian Atkinson isn’t evidence of black oppression, it’s evidence of bad policing. 

Over the past decade white people in the UK were statistically 25% more likely to die in police custody than black people. The fact the two coppers are facing jail for what they did to Dalian demonstrates police accountability not black oppression.

If the players want to carry on taking the knee next season more power to them. People can disagree in good faith about whether it’s the best way to achieve their objectives, but booing them is not, imo, okay. 

[HolteExile]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

Always amuses me when white middle class people tell black people there isn't racism. 

Aye.  And tell them how to behave. 

"You can protest, but only this way."

"Oh I've changed my mind. That way affects my delicate sensibilities as well."

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, pas5898 said:

Just to give my two pence worth. 

Rightly or wrongly, taking the knee, is now associated with politics and BLM. To some that is not a good thing. Sky Sports, BT sport etc blasted BLM and the knee over every match for months, the 2 things are now intrinsinctly associated. 

Tyrone and many on here are frustrated because he believes those booing are bigots etc. 

I think all Villa fans, even those booing agree that an equal society is required. It would be good if the players could come up with another symbol, or act to show their desire for equal opportunity etc. One that's not been associated with BLM, but one that's associated with equal oppuntunity across the board and disassociated from politics. 

You can't have a meaningful act or symbol to not only promote the concept of equality but actually try to bring it into being that is also 'disassociated from politics'. The concept doesn't make sense.

People who say 'such-and-such is *too political*' really mean 'I don't like such-and-such but I don't want to say so' or, more generously, 'I am fine with the theoretical concept of such-and-such but will complain about every practical effort to make it a reality'. That's what people actually mean by 'too political'.

[Stevo985]

I watched the game at the pub so couldn't hear the booing. Disappointed but not entirely surprised that it was booed, people are morons.

If you booed the taking of the knee you're racist. I don't care how much you pretend to know what marxism is or claim it's because you don't like the gesture or whatever. You're racist. Oh and you're also a massive word removed

[meregreen]

I don’t have a problem with players demonstrating support for an issue . Particularly one which affects so many people. I was quietly waiting while they bent the knee before kicking off. Then some moron behind me booed. The response of most of the Villa fans was to begin clapping the players. I joined in the clapping. I’ve seen us win everything over 60 years of watching Aston Villa. I’ve never been prouder of our fans than I was at that moment of spontaneous dignity shown by our fans. To those who booed, shame on you.

[StefanAVFC]

51 minutes ago, Awol said:

Who has the poppy been hijacked by and for what political reasons? You state it has but haven’t given any examples. Can you? 

 

I gave an example. The furor about James McClean every year. You are remarkably blind if you can't see how the poppy has been hijacked.

Also google is your friend.

Quote

Poppies are a common sight on British shirts and coats this time of year - but online some people are using the burst of poppy popularity to push their political agendas.

The official poppy appeal has been running since 1921 and is organised by the Royal British Legion to benefit service members and ex-service members. Its inspiration was Colonel John McCrae, a Canadian doctor who wrote the poem "In Flanders Fields" after witnessing the Second Battle of Ypres. Poppies grow wild in Belgium and northern France, and after World War One the flower came to be a seen as a general symbol of remembrance.

On Twitter, poppies have been mentioned more than 20,000 times since the campaign launched on 22 October. But amidst the most popular tweets put out by the Royal British Legion itself are other heavily retweeted messages from groups pushing their own political agendas. Right-wing groups have been sharing stories and images, with some saying that Muslims are "offended" by poppies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34657975

It's even on the Wiki page for the poppy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy

Edited May 24, 2021 by StefanAVFC

[Wainy316]

Seems like it was booed at other grounds too (definitely Wolves and Leicester) not sure if it was drown out by cheers like at VP though.  Glad our sensible fans did that and as a result the boos were only audible for about 1 second.

[Chindie]

I was gutted to hear the booing. Very glad it was replaced by cheering. But still... For a club with our record of great players of every background, from a city that personifies the successes of multicultural metropolis, who in very recent memory has been made aware of the injustices experienced by people of different backgrounds and who has strong figures in the current discussion leading the club... It's just gutting.