Racism in Football

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, 7392craig said:

 

Group identity politics is where I’m making the Marxism comparisons.

We're getting wildly off-topic here but Marxism has nothing to do with identity politics. Please look into it. What I suspect you're referring to is "Cultural Marxism", which unfortunately happens to be an (antisemitic) conspiracy theory.

[StefanAVFC]

59 minutes ago, pas5898 said:

I think all Villa fans, even those booing agree that an equal society is required.

I think this is very naïve. 

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, 7392craig said:

The movement and the organisation are not the same. People have trouble separating the two, you can support taking the knee without supporting BLM the organisation.

Similarly the organisation and the (economic) views of some of its members should also be separated. 

[7392craig]

Just now, Keyblade said:

We're getting wildly off-topic here but Marxism has nothing to do with identity politics. Please look into it. What I suspect you're referring to is "Cultural Marxism", which unfortunately happens to be an (antisemitic) conspiracy theory.

This is where I think we need to agree to disagree and move back on topic.

[7392craig]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Similarly the organisation and the (economic) views of some of its members should also be separated. 

Some of its members, yes. I don’t hold the organisation accountable because of certain individuals, nor do I base my opinion on it.

[Awol]

10 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Anti-racism is identity politics.

Indeed, that’s the problem - see below. 

I don’t agree with booing the players at any time, I also think mixing politics and football is a bad idea. 

 

[icouldtelltheworld]

While there is undoubtedly a debate to be had over whether taking the knee before kick off has become a hollow gesture, or if it is the best way for footballers to demonstrate support for racial justice moving forwards, let's be honest here. I'd be pretty confident betting my entire life savings on the fact that 95% of those who booed yesterday would have done so right from the first time it happened during project restart.

The idea that were all being duped into supporting some covert Marxist insurgency is as pathetic as it is daft. The idea that there are sinister motives behind social justice campaigns is also one of the oldest anti-semitic tropes in existence -  it really isn't that far removed from the batshit conspiracy theories about George Soros (which I've seen plenty of in relation to BLM on Villa FB groups)

[DCJonah]

39 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said:

I find the tone of your reply condescending, however it’s a view that you’re entitled to bring to the table. I don’t think you win hearts and minds by using your type of approach, but each to their own. 

But you think booing people in public will. 

The more you post, the more you reveal yourself. 

[Keyblade]

10 minutes ago, Awol said:

Indeed, that’s the problem - see below. 

I don’t agree with booing the players at any time, I also think mixing politics and football is a bad idea. 

 

Could not find any evidence of this solitary tweet existing beyond blurry screenshots on right wing sites. Interestingly enough this woman was shot in the head last night and is being reported to have been subjected to multiple death threats recently. I imagine this image would rank pretty high as fuel for those. Would make me sick to my stomach if it were fake.

Beyond that, I think sport is an excellent vehicle for social change. One of the reasons why Muhammad Ali will always be the greatest athlete of all time for me.

[GENTLEMAN]

 

Perhaps it is useful to present Ming's view on this.

[StefanAVFC]

20 minutes ago, Awol said:

Indeed, that’s the problem - see below. 

I don’t agree with booing the players at any time, I also think mixing politics and football is a bad idea. 

 

I suppose you have fairly strong views on poppies on shirts then?

[Panto_Villan]

Meh. I've got a lot of qualms about the BLM movement for a lot of the reasons outlined earlier in the thread (and also because of the sort of thing that Awol posted above).

I've no qualms about equality for ethnic minorities but it doesn't seem to me that that's all the BLM movement wants to achieve. I'd happily attend an anti-racism protest but I'd do it in the name of an anti-racism group that was interested in bringing society together rather than dividing it (accusations of cultural appropriation, etc).

If taking the knee in football has publicly distanced itself from BLM then I've not seen that. I wouldn't go as far as booing people taking the knee (I don't feel that strongly) but I think football would do well to rebrand their movement to create a distinction. I don't know how many people booing are against stopping racist abuse of players, for example, as opposed to what they see as the overreach of the political BLM movement.

[Awol]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Could not find any evidence of this solitary tweet existing beyond blurry screenshots on right wing sites. Interestingly enough this woman was shot in the head last night and is being reported to have been subjected to multiple death threats recently. I imagine this image would rank pretty high as fuel for those. Would make me sick to my stomach if it were fake.

Beyond that, I think sport is an excellent vehicle for social change. One of the reasons why Muhammad Ali will always be the greatest athlete of all time for me.

It’s not fake, it’s the reason her account was suspended. If by right wing sites (what are they btw?) you mean Twitter then yes, it’s been circulating ever since, usually when people are arguing about the nature of BLM the political movement. 

I’m not against players taking the knee if they wish, the problem (for some people) was the early association between that gesture and BLM - amped up at the time by the media. (Wise) Attempts since then to separate the two are evidently not being accepted by some people. It’s a shame but also not surprising.

Yes, I do know she got shot last night. I’m sure the details of by whom and why etc. will come out. Hopefully she won’t die. 

[villa4europe]

Just now, Panto_Villan said:

Meh. I've got a lot of qualms about the BLM movement for a lot of the reasons outlined earlier in the thread (and also because of the sort of thing that Awol posted above).

I've no qualms about equality for ethnic minorities but it doesn't seem to me that that's all the BLM movement wants to achieve. I'd happily attend an anti-racism protest but I'd do it in the name of an anti-racism group that was interested in bringing society together rather than dividing it (accusations of cultural appropriation, etc).

If taking the knee in football has publicly distanced itself from BLM then I've not seen that. I wouldn't go as far as booing people taking the knee (I don't feel that strongly) but I think football would do well to rebrand their movement to create a distinction. I don't know how many people booing are against stopping racist abuse of players, for example, as opposed to what they see as the overreach of the political BLM movement.

They did rebrand it... 

That's the problem, people have been too easily swayed in to believing whatever bullshit they want to believe about this taking a knee

But then that's what they do to every civil rights movement that's ever been attempted in the last 60 odd years, it's a broken record 

[Awol]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I suppose you have fairly strong views on poppies on shirts then?

No, why would I? Remembrance is apolitical. 

[tomav84]

5 minutes ago, GENTLEMAN said:

 

Perhaps it is useful to present Ming's view on this.

they don't care. simple as that. they're just racists but don't even have the bottle to admit "i'm racist"...they just try and BS people by saying "no, no, i'm not, honest...i'm just against this marxist organisation"

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, Awol said:

No, why would I? Remembrance is apolitical. 

Wearing a poppy on a shirt has now become incredibly political. Look at the situation with James McClean each year. Remembrance is apolitical but the poppy isn't just that anymore. 

Much in the same way that people argue that BLM has now become political. 'Equality is apolitical'. Similar statement.

Edited May 24, 2021 by StefanAVFC

[Panto_Villan]

2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

They did rebrand it... 

That's the problem, people have been too easily swayed in to believing whatever bullshit they want to believe about this taking a knee

But then that's what they do to every civil rights movement that's ever been attempted in the last 60 odd years, it's a broken record 

When did they rebrand it? I've genuinely not seen it if so. Can you provide links?

[OxfordVillan]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But you think booing people in public will. 

The more you post, the more you reveal yourself. 

I think you think you have more insight than you actually do. I don’t boo, never have done never will. Except at panto. But I defend people’s right to boo, to have a different opinion. If you read back to one of my earlier posts on this topic you will see that I wrote that I hoped the authorities and the players could come together over summer and put together a new initiative against racism that could pull EVERYONE along with it. By that I mean completely sever links with BLM so that people cannot use it as an excuse to boo, criticise, or whatever. By doing so you would leave the real racists with nowhere to hide. 
The reality is that you don’t know me at all, it’s somewhat naive to think you do by reading a few words on a forum. The single thing we know we have in common here is AVFC. Anything else is just misguided guesswork. UTV

[tomav84]

6 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

If taking the knee in football has publicly distanced itself from BLM then I've not seen that. I wouldn't go as far as booing people taking the knee (I don't feel that strongly) but I think football would do well to rebrand their movement to create a distinction. I don't know how many people booing are against stopping racist abuse of players, for example, as opposed to what they see as the overreach of the political BLM movement.

someone has literally just posted a video of mings distancing the taking of the knee from the BLM organisation. before games now on the likes of sky etc there is a video where it's specifically stated that it's nothing to do with any organisation. commentators never use the term 'black lives matter' anymore and have presumably been specifically instructed not to use those 3 words.

the taking the knee has been distanced from BLM for some time now....i'm flabbergasted that you have not seen that