brommy Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, briny_ear said: Wonder how JT fits in? Seemingly where he wants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 52 minutes ago, brommy said: Seemingly where he wants. Old pals from their Chelsea days I guess? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Old pals from their Chelsea days I guess? Or JT”s reputation of fitting in. He’s a confident man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 Still nothing on the os. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 48 minutes ago, sidcow said: Still nothing on the os. Matthew benham, Brentford chairman, confirmed on Twitter earlier that Richard has gone also. Gone enough source that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rubberman Posted October 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2018 He'll be like agnew signing! Oh. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 6 hours ago, VillaChris said: He was Dean's number 2 at Walsall for a good few years aswell. I can assure you with the penny pinching way Jeff Bonser (Walsall owner) runs things there was certainly no "system" or "structure" at that club! Was a bit of sarcasm mate, I've seen the suggestion made so many times I've decided to beat posters to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinglikeabee Posted October 12, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2018 Another decent man for Dean. His departure was inevitable. We employed two assistant coaches to Dean. One was his man and the other was a club assistant coach. Richard O'Kelly is pretty much everything Dean isn't. Good combination for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 11 hours ago, A'Villan said: I think I know what you're saying. The analogy I used in another thread is apt. An architect can draw up different plans for different jobs and they will still be effective as long as the principles of the trade are followed. Likewise, a builder doesn't need to be an architect to follow the plans and understand the practicalities of the task at hand, they share the same language. Following the principles of the trade should ensure a fairly successful build. Regardless of the fact that different projects will offer unique challenges they all require fresh eyes, a sharp mind and a concerted effort. Some constructs are more detailed, complicated and demanding than others, and I will wait to see how Smith fares as he steps in to new territory, but I am quite confident he will at least be a noticeable improvement on what we saw under Bruce. Hopefully that is enough to gain promotion. Comparisons to Lambert are too pessimistic for me and while there is potential for parallels to arise I feel like the hierarchy and circumstances are nothing alike. From the mouth of the 'architect' at Brentford, the difference in their model to other clubs is that they scrapped the academy in favour of a B Team which would yield more finance as academy players were too young for professional contracts and would get poached for nothing, whereas the data analytics model enabled them to identify players abroad whose skill set and league are of a quality equal or greater than what Brentford have but due to the country they play in are worth a fee affordable for Brentford. Add to this the head coach deals only with day to day strategy like training and match day preparation, the director of football deals with medium-term strategy like transfers and succession planning and the board deal with long term strategy and objectives. They all liaison with one another and have input in decisions. Everything is tailored to the goals established from the top. Like the architect and the builder, they are all speaking the same language and understand the roles of the other to a degree that allows them to function successfully. As @TrentVilla has made mention of, there was deliberate wording in the title of our announcement for Smith's appointment. Head Coach. We have also recently employed a director of football who has enjoyed success at the highest level. Same goes for our CEO. I can't speak for Sawiris but Edens seems down to earth with ambitions where the sky is the limit. Seems to take the time to inform himself so that he can be effectively involved in the process. So it would seem like Villa is also setting up for a system where autonomy is spread and the model reliant on effective teamwork and the highest of standards from top to bottom. That's how it seems to me. So are you putting Dean Smith in the role of a builder because management is far more complex and multi-dimensional than just following an 'architect's plans and structures'. The manager has to be an architect himself and it's the actual quality a manager possesses rather than any 'external structures' which will be the crucial determining factor on whether a manager succeeds or fails. You could place 10 random managers in a 'quality structure' for wildly varying results. Place 1 quality manager in 10 random 'structures' and you can bank on some degree of success most if not every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Michael118 said: So are you putting Dean Smith in the role of a builder because management is far more complex and multi-dimensional than just following an 'architect's plans and structures'. The manager has to be an architect himself and it's the actual quality a manager possesses rather than any 'external structures' which will be the crucial determining factor on whether a manager succeeds or fails. You could place 10 random managers in a 'quality structure' for wildly varying results. Place 1 quality manager in 10 random 'structures' and you can bank on some degree of success most if not every time. I take it then that you have never worked on a building site in any skilled capacity. Would this be correct? Edit: I don't want to derail the thread. It's just an analogy to illustrate that if you are competent in your profession you understand the ins and outs of the various roles that need to come together to make a project happen. You are free to come to your own conclusions but I think you are missing my point. Edited October 12, 2018 by A'Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, A'Villan said: I take it then that you have never worked on a building site in any skilled capacity. Would this be correct? A manager is the heart and soul of a team, not just a 'cog in the wheel'. I think there is an overemphasis on having the right structures in place and following a certain set of ''guidelines and principles to success', when the most important factor for success is simply identifying quality and potential in key areas, getting those people on board and allowing them to do what they do best. It should be a fairly simple process in the right hands. Edited October 12, 2018 by Michael118 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Michael118 said: A manager is the heart and soul of a team, not just a 'cog in the wheel'. I think there is an overemphasis on having the right structures in place and following a certain set of ''guidelines and principles to success', when the most important factor for success is simply identifying quality and potential in key areas, getting those people on board and allowing them to do what they do best. It should be a fairly simple process in the right hands. The best always make it look easy, mate. You are obviously quite passionate about football, perhaps less so about construction. I could be the one mistaken but I feel like you may not have interpreted my post as it was intended. Ingenuity is invaluable in any endeavour. As is quality and potential like you mention. We are not at odds on this. What you mention as the process which should take place is in itself a set of guidelines and principles, is it not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, A'Villan said: The best always make it look easy, mate. You are obviously quite passionate about football, perhaps less so about construction. I could be the one mistaken but I feel like you may not have interpreted my post as it was intended. Ingenuity is invaluable in any endeavour. As is quality and potential like you mention. We are not at odds on this. What you mention as the process which should take place is in itself a set of guidelines and principles, is it not? No, it's just a natural process. When it's successful others try and replicate it but it rarely works because they put what they believe are the right 'structures' and 'principles' in place but what they're missing is the same level of insight or inspiration behind it. It's not something which can be replicated with any degree of certainty by external measures or standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 This is the first time we have ever had a Head Coach at the club .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted October 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: This is the first time we have ever had a Head Coach at the club .... I’m not so sure, I heard that Doris the tea lady had an unofficial title as the coach of giving head, or more commonly termed Head Coach. She was extremely passionate and committed to the role, and often finished the work of others. Edited October 12, 2018 by villan-scott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Stinglikeabee said: Another decent man for Dean. His departure was inevitable. We employed two assistant coaches to Dean. One was his man and the other was a club assistant coach. Richard O'Kelly is pretty much everything Dean isn't. Good combination for you. What is Thomas Frank like. Is there any chance of us getting him as well do you think is he close to Dean Smith? Also is there any sports science people and coaches at Brentford which are influential when it comes to analytics and technical training. I've always been impressed with Brentford's movement on and off the ball along with passing. Edited October 12, 2018 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, AshVilla said: What is Thomas Frank like. Is there any chance of us getting him as well do you think is he close to Dean Smith? Also is there any sports science people and coaches at Brentford which are influential when it comes to analytics and technical training. I've always been impressed with Brentford's movement on and off the ball along with passing. Bloody hell, movement off the ball. Now there's a forgotten art at the Villa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, mjmooney said: Bloody hell, movement off the ball. Now there's a forgotten art at the Villa. It will be amazing, the only thing we have had up to this point is Pashun and trying hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stinglikeabee Posted October 13, 2018 Visiting Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2018 8 hours ago, AshVilla said: What is Thomas Frank like. Is there any chance of us getting him as well do you think is he close to Dean Smith? Also is there any sports science people and coaches at Brentford which are influential when it comes to analytics and technical training. I've always been impressed with Brentford's movement on and off the ball along with passing. I'm afraid there's almost next to no chance of you getting Thomas Frank as he's likely to be the manager at Brentford. That was always part of the succession and continuity planning at Brentford. Richard was brought in as an assistant coach but was Dean's man. Thomas was brought in but as Brentford's man. Obviously there are a large number of coaches and people at Brentford who might want to move on to Villa at some stage in their careers. But I think you're alluding to whether the key players might move to Villa? My understanding is that there are only a few people who fully understand the systems, as people have been brought in to perform a role within our structure, but not given access to the entire structure. Our owner is obviously secretive over what he has developed over the years, and the two DoF's are Phil Giles (who worked with him at the owners betting company) and Rasmus Ankersen, who is the chairman of FC Midtjylland. The owner of FC Midtjylland......? Our owner, Matthew Benham. Getting them to move to another club will be very difficult in my opinion. There's the technical director, Robert Rowan, who is probably the top person in terms of transferability, but if he was to move, he brings knowledge and insight, but not the actual system. The system took years to implement properly, and is locked down in terms of confidentiality because it's the ONLY way that a club with, consistently, the third lowest wage budget in the division, can dream of competing at a higher level. Benham has been involved at the club since 2010 but started to implement his systems from 2013 when he took over the club. The key person to the entire system at Brentford is.....our owner. He wanted to see a blueprint of turning Brentford into an exciting football team (so people like Warnock would never ever be considered for the job at Brentford) but also a team that wasn't content to just exist. How do you that when there's no money to compete against the bigger clubs? Over 5 years of planning and implementation of the Brentford system. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swollef Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Is this speculation ? have seen on twitter weve got him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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