Dean Smith

[Mark Albrighton]

11 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 12 months time as it will be clearer who was right.

Will it be the Pro-Smith posters who won't hear a bad word about Smith who never actually post any comments about the manager but run around like little terriers snapping at anyone who dares to criticize their man. The majority who want Smith to stay but who raise questions about the managers performances in the same way as they would about players or the anti-Smith minority who have decided 12 months on that he again isn't the many to take the club forward and are quite vocal on the matter.

Time will tell.

Criticism is fine.

I think there’s things he can improve on, I said as much when Dem posed the question the other day.

But any criticism I have is tempered by how much good will he has in the bank with me. As long as the general trajectory season on season is positive, I’ve not much cause to complain.

The stuff I might call out isn’t criticism, not constructive criticism anyway. It’s people who stamp their feet and talk about £250m investment and not acknowledge that it was required. Like Dean Smith is the only manager ever to have bought players before. Or calling him a “novice” when he clearly isn’t. Or the idea that no one on here wants him gone, I think that notion has now been dispelled “stealing a living” style comments have done that.

As for it being clearer next season. It might be. It also might not be. It could well be £100m spent in the summer, and this time next year we’re 8th or 9th. Some will be happy with that and consider that sufficient progress, others won’t be. £90m or whatever it was spent last summer and 6 places higher has caused some consternation for some. I doubt a similar amount spent and a couple of league places higher will appease absolutely everyone.

[ciggiesnbeer]

One of our greatest assets is we have a respected, professional, effective and self critical manager. 

Sure I would take Pep over Dean Smith right now but the list of managers who I would take over Smith is pretty short.

The time for a change is when results go terrible for a long period of time, we will all know when that is, same as we do with every manager.

For me its a great time to be a Villa fan and Smith is a huge part of these good times.

 

[villalad21]

12 minutes ago, MentalM said:

We have players who last season played their first season in PL. All of them in my eyes have improved in my eyes in current season greatly. I might have overlooked the part of 5 years you seem to refer to, but I doubt anyone here would claim we need to wait 5 years for them to settle and get chemistry.

If the players we signed for this season improve as much as the ones who improved from the season before we would have a team of world beaters. Add that with some key signings and we should push Europe next season.

I dont agree with no character - we came back when trailing vs Fulham and basically looked prime Liverpool in how we turned it around.

No motivation? I saw our team play Palace around their fingers in parts of first half.

We lack quality and endurance. We are naive at times, due to lack of experience.

To your hate on Smith: I agree he needs to improve his ingame management, but I want to believe he can improve. He took criticism last season, and changed how we approached the game and suddenly we stopped conceding 4 goals per game. With how greatly we have improved over his time from season to season, perhaps we should be patient for one more season that is according to the plan we had? The one the owners, Smith and everyone has told us. One season to survive, one to regroup, one to push (which would be next season). I wish he would make changed pro actively, I 100% agree with you. I wish he would use the bench more. I wish to believe he does that next season when our squad depth will be much bigger  

You find these one things you do not like and keep jabbing on about it, the hate towards Traore and Wesley. Now its Smith being not a good enough manager for us. 

 

It was Sheffield united's first season last season and they finished top half.

Leeds top half now with their players if not all with no pl experience.

I think how you do is mainly down to 2 things.

The quality of coaching and the quality of players. If you have either of those things you'll be fine regardless of past pl experience.

Doesn't matter if Fulham or West Brom's players had been together for 1 or 10 seasons. The outcome would be the same. Cuz they have neither of those 2 things.

Smith can't work miracles like Bielsa so to compensate for a lack of top quality coaching we need better players.

Edited May 17, 2021 by villalad21

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Criticism is fine.

I think there’s things he can improve on, I said as much when Dem posed the question the other day.

But any criticism I have is tempered by how much good will he has in the bank with me. As long as the general trajectory season on season is positive, I’ve not much cause to complain.

The stuff I might call out isn’t criticism, not constructive criticism anyway. It’s people who stamp their feet and talk about £250m investment and not acknowledge that it was required. Like Dean Smith is the only manager ever to have bought players before. Or calling him a “novice” when he clearly isn’t. Or the idea that no one on here wants him gone, I think that notion has now been dispelled “stealing a living” style comments have done that.

As for it being clearer next season. It might be. It also might not be. It could well be £100m spent in the summer, and this time next year we’re 8th or 9th. Some will be happy with that and consider that sufficient progress, others won’t be. £90m or whatever it was spent last summer and 6 places higher has caused some consternation for some. I doubt a similar amount spent and a couple of league places higher will appease absolutely everyone.

Good post. 
Criticism of DS on the grounds of recruitment is very shaky ground anyway, because of our setup (Suso etc). It has been widely reported that Dean wanted Phillips over Nakamba, and Benrahma (sp.) over Trez. 

Yet there has been criticism of DS on here about both of these signings.  

I know it’s collective, but if DS had had the final word, and then they flopped, I think the criticism would have more merit.

[MentalM]

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

It was Sheffield united's first season last season and they finished top half.

Leeds top half now with their players if not all with no pl experience.

But these players had played together as a team. So what they lacked in experience they could atleast make up for in cohesiom.

We had neither.

I Will let my judgement on Bielsa rest until after his second season

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, MentalM said:

But these players had played together as a team. So what they lacked in experience they could atleast make up for in cohesiom.

We had neither.

I Will let my judgement on Bielsa rest until after his second season

West Brom and Fulham also had played together as a team.

Difference is the quality of coaching. Fulham and West Brom isn't getting relegated if Bielsa is the manager.

I don't believe in the lack of chemistry claim. You need good players or you need an excellent coach. If you have both of those that's even better.

We'll have to agree to disagree and let's just leave it at that.

Edited May 17, 2021 by villalad21

[MrSmirch]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Fulham and West Brom isn't getting relegated if Bielsa is the manager

You don’t think he could have kept Sheffield up? Oh dear. That’s really disappointing. Think I’ll be in touch with the other members of Bielsa Club about this.

[zab6359]

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

It was Sheffield united's first season last season and they finished top half.

Leeds top half now with their players if not all with no pl experience.

I think how you do is mainly down to 2 things.

The quality of coaching and the quality of players. If you have either of those things you'll be fine regardless of past pl experience.

Doesn't matter if Fulham or West Brom's players had been together for 1 or 10 seasons. The outcome would be the same. Cuz they have neither of those 2 things.

Smith can't work miracles like Bielsa so to compensate for a lack of top quality coaching we need better players.

What absolute tosh, Bielsa has 15 yrs experience on DS Bielsa doesn't work miracles ffs he's just a decent experienced manager.

I think DS is very much part of the owners long term plans whether you like it or not. And I'd expect him to improve year on year as players do.

I really think even a poor season and by poor I mean flirting consistently with the relegation zone wouldn't see Smith sacked.

Whilst ambitious I also think the owners are realistic and somewhat patient.

[peterw]

Bielsa and Leeds had a more settled unit when they come up and didn't have to spend as much money on players as we did just to try and build a squad. Also, there is not one person who thought Bamford would have the season that he did. There are plenty of teams that have gone up and had a great first season - Sheff U being one - so does that make Wilder comparable to Bielsa? A few seasons ago it was the same with Norwich under Lambert which convinced us to go and get him. So, by the argument of some above is Lambert also the equal of Bielsa?

As it is we're ending the season poorly. Disappointing but there are reasons. As all clubs have when going through a poor spell. But if anyone cannot see the difference between the coaching now and even compared with bruce is really just watching Man city in their spare timer and just being that character from little britain, "Want that one".  There are not many teams better than us that transition the ball from goalkeeper to attacking areas than us. I've gone from panic of last season when Nyland/reina et al looked to try and move the ball to repeatedly saying 'oh, well done' as time and time again we move the ball through teh lines and channels. That, is coaching.

I do wonder at times how poor Ron would have fared at the end of 78-79, and 79-80 seasons if there was social media back then? Villa on the back of an exciting team in 77 ended up with 7th and 8th place finishes. Then after losing Andy Gray (and Gidman) go out and by a centre-forward warhorse. No-one at the time was particularly enthused to replace Gray with Withe. Social media would have been in meltdown comparing Saunders to some other midtable manager and highlighting how them finishing a place or two above us shows how bad we are and them, great.

Villa are doing fine just now. We are in a place with there still is a deep connection between club and fans. between manager and fans, and players and fans. Smith has still got bucket loads of credit and its a great feeling. Yes, he's not beyond criticism but he's also worthy of our full support. He's given us what Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Garde, Di matteo, Bruce couldn't. He's given us a Villa to be proud of and who other teams (unless you're Man U...) know will give them a game. Its a low bar that we have been given since the Lerner tenure but Smith is lifting us out of it. It may be that he has reached his level, I just don't think it is. 

 

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, peterw said:

I do wonder at times how poor Ron would have fared at the end of 78-79, and 79-80 seasons if there was social media back then? Villa on the back of an exciting team in 77 ended up with 7th and 8th place finishes. Then after losing Andy Gray (and Gidman) go out and by a centre-forward warhorse. No-one at the time was particularly enthused to replace Gray with Withe. Social media would have been in meltdown comparing Saunders to some other midtable manager and highlighting how them finishing a place or two above us shows how bad we are and them, great

I’ve often thought this. The sale of Andy Gray brought about plenty of newspaper headlines, he was probably as hot as Harry Kane is now. To then replace him with a journeyman striker was met with very little enthusiasm at the time. Back then though the moaning and arguing all took place in the pub or the playground and not in front of the millions on social media. I assume this puts greater pressure on those directly involved. I’m not sure how much it would have effected Ron, although I’m inclined to believe he would have been pretty stoic.

Nevertheless he retired from football at a relatively young age and more or less walked away from the game. I’m fairly sure he wouldn’t have had a great deal of time for social media and that may well have hastened his departure even more. Possibly even depriving us altogether of our greatest modern day manager and along with him our greatest achievements. 

[DCJonah]

8 hours ago, villalad21 said:

How do I make stuff up? 

I'm not the one who who comes up with nonsensical claims that a team needs to be together for 5 years in order to get them to consistently perform. 

Oh my God this is brilliant. 

You ask how do I make stuff up and then proceed to make something up. 

How do you do it? 

[DCJonah]

8 hours ago, mykeyb said:

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 12 months time as it will be clearer who was right.

Will it be the Pro-Smith posters who won't hear a bad word about Smith who never actually post any comments about the manager but run around like little terriers snapping at anyone who dares to criticize their man. The majority who want Smith to stay but who raise questions about the managers performances in the same way as they would about players or the anti-Smith minority who have decided 12 months on that he again isn't the many to take the club forward and are quite vocal on the matter.

Time will tell.

It doesn't matter about predicting the future and being right. In football that's virtually impossible. 

Dealing with just the present, I think it's pretty obvious who's been right. The progression of this football club has been brilliant since the day he arrived. And what ever happens in the future, its given us the platform to go and build something special 

[DCJonah]

8 hours ago, villalad21 said:

It was Sheffield united's first season last season and they finished top half.

Leeds top half now with their players if not all with no pl experience.

I think how you do is mainly down to 2 things.

The quality of coaching and the quality of players. If you have either of those things you'll be fine regardless of past pl experience.

Doesn't matter if Fulham or West Brom's players had been together for 1 or 10 seasons. The outcome would be the same. Cuz they have neither of those 2 things.

Smith can't work miracles like Bielsa so to compensate for a lack of top quality coaching we need better players.

Hmm.

I think back to the year we were promoted and I see one manager who should have sealed automatic promotion and collapsed. And then I see another, who inherited a team in a mess and broke a club record winning streak to gain promotion first time of asking. 

Your memory is awful. 

[Phil Silvers]

Most peoples posts on Dean Smith are incredibly unbalanced, extreme either way good or bad, fine margins have cost us a minimum 18 points, we've hit the wood work more times then any one else, more wrong decisions have cost us more then anyone else, best player missed 12 games.

West Ham haven't had anywhere near those levels of injustice and are where they are because they have had almost everything go their way. Because of this they are above us but doubt there is a single poster on here who would flip Smith for Moyes.

An upgrade on Smith is ungetable. 

[Jas10]

35 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Most peoples posts on Dean Smith are incredibly unbalanced, extreme either way good or bad, fine margins have cost us a minimum 18 points, we've hit the wood work more times then any one else, more wrong decisions have cost us more then anyone else, best player missed 12 games.

West Ham haven't had anywhere near those levels of injustice and are where they are because they have had almost everything go their way. Because of this they are above us but doubt there is a single poster on here who would flip Smith for Moyes.

An upgrade on Smith is ungetable. 

Yep, there’s a lot of stuff that’s being overlooked - a lot has happened during the season (has been covered a fair bit by now) and our form and progress was curtailed due to several factors.

Thanks for bringing up the bad decisions too because there were a lot, we suffered more than our fair share of injustice (and not just against Man U). Watkins was denied a few goals…

And I totally disagree with people that are saying defenders of Dean are blind and disregard poor form and results, that’s nonsense, we’re not completely happy (we know he has flaws and makes mistakes but he is learning and improving along the way) but we don’t want him sacked for what has been consistent progression and still a good season overall.

We’ve put in so much effort and made so many strides during his tenure, it’s madness to want that all destroyed and discarded… why turn on a man who has finally restored some pride to the club and had some significant achievements? Seems like a betrayal to me, and we call ourselves supporters…

Have we forgotten just how long we had been in decline and in the doldrums? And now we are somehow entitled to instant success and not allowed any short/temporary run of losses or unsatisfactory performances??? Even if it’s against some of the “elite clubs”? What is this thirst for instant success and gratification? It’s not how the game works, we are in a much healthier and better position than a hell of a lot of clubs, both on and off the field, and we’re only going to get better.

As another commenter had stated, “we’re only getting started”.

Have some bloody patience and stop overlooking everything to push an agenda.

Oh yeah, those decisions?

Let’s take a look at just a few:

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Jas10

[Jas10]

 

[Phil Silvers]

6 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Yep, there’s a lot of stuff that’s being overlooked - a lot has happened during the season (has been coveted a fair bit by now) and our form and progress was curtailed due to several factors.

Thanks for bringing up the bad decisions too because there were a lot, we suffered more than our fair share of injustice (and not just against Man U). Watkins was denied a few goals…

And I totally disagree with people that are saying defenders of Dean are blind and disregard poor form and results, that’s nonsense, we’re not completely happy (we know he has flaws and makes mistakes but he is learning and improving along the way) but we don’t want him sacked for what has been consistent progression and still a good season overall.

We’ve put in so much effort and made so many strides during his tenure, it’s madness to want that all destroyed and discarded… why turn on a man who has finally restored some pride to the club and had some significant achievements? Seems like a betrayal to me, and we call ourselves supporters…

Have we forgotten just how long we had been in decline and in the doldrums? And now we are somehow entitled to instant success and not allowed any short/temporary run of losses or unsatisfactory performances??? Even if it’s against some of the “elite clubs”? What is this thirst for instant success and gratification? It’s not how the game works, we are in a much healthier and better position than a hell of a lot of clubs, both on and off the field, and we’re only going to get better. As another commenter had stated, we’re getting started. 

Have some bloody patience and stop overlooking everything to push an agenda.

Oh yeah, those decisions?

Let’s take a look at just a few:

 

 

Most of it feels like an agenda to me, corrupt officials? Maybe.

We bought in Shakespeare to help with coaching so it has been discussed addressed by Dean/Purslow. We still see repeated mistakes though but is it coaching or is it the standard of the players who on their day are brilliant but not often enough, consistency and concentration are what the better players have and this summer this will be addressed too.

 

[Jas10]

[Jas10]

Just now, Phil Silvers said:

Most of it feels like an agenda to me, corrupt officials? Maybe.

We bought in Shakespeare to help with coaching so it has been discussed addressed by Dean/Purslow. We still see repeated mistakes though but is it coaching or is it the standard of the players who on their day are brilliant but not often enough, consistency and concentration are what the better players have and this summer this will be addressed too.

 

The agenda I was referring to is that of calling for Dean to get sacked at every opportunity - there are some (and I hope that’s it’s a vast minority) that want him to fail…

But yes, there is no doubt in my mind that the refs are corrupt and no doubt that they favour the big clubs - especially Man U  

Form and results? It’s a combination of both but isn’t Dean allowed to learn and improve on the job or is he expected to win every game or do we have to always put in a world class performance?

We clearly need better players and a stronger squad, do we really ever have any decent options to change it up? We suffer immensely when we lose a key player.

Hasn’t Dean earned enough credibility and, what’s the saying? Cash in the bank?

He’s taken us forwards and never backwards, that’s quite something (most clubs don’t finish better every season, and they don’t sack their managers for it either).

I really don’t like this attitude whereby we take all the success and progress Dean has achieved with us and then just turn on him when we feel like it or just overreact after a loss or two. We only recently played well and beat Everton for example. It’s been a strange old season, stick with the Villa and stick with Dean. We are going places (and have been in a short time).

[Jas10]