Dean Smith

[a m ole]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Omg you chat so much shit. Mourinho took over a team that had just finished top 4 and semi final of champions league plus added top players to it with crazy money to spend!
 

I can’t believe how much crap you come out with to have a dig at Smith. It’s cringe worthy to read.

It was actually Ambramovic came in, they spent (pre-FFP) the modern equivalent of about a billion and Ranieri took them from 4th to 2nd and got sacked. They then spent another pre-FFP equivalent of a billion for Mourinho to take them from 2nd to 1st. Next level revisionist history.

[villalad21]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Omg you chat so much shit. Mourinho took over a team that had just finished top 4 and semi final of champions league plus added top players to it with crazy money to spend!
 

I can’t believe how much crap you come out with to have a dig at Smith. It’s cringe worthy to read.

You people keep digging your heads in the sand and blame everything else to protect your buddy. 

I will keep focusing on the facts, and that's the team not performing for 6 months.

Being passive. 

Showing no character on the pitch.

Loser mentality.

And that's on the manager. Not a lack of team chemistry. Not the Refs. Not VAR. The manager. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by villalad21

[MentalM]

And let us not forget he took over a team that had played in PL before. Unlike our players

[Indigo]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

 

I will keep focusing on the facts,

Have you forgotten what you just posted about Chelsea?

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

You people keep digging your heads in the sand and blame everything else to protect your buddy. 

I will keep focusing on the facts, and that's the team not performing for 6 months.

Being passive. 

Showing no character on the pitch.

Loser mentality.

And that's on the manager. Not a lack of team chemistry. Not the Refs. Not VAR. The manager. 

Bullshit. I’m not even talking about Smith. I don’t care what you’re opinion of him is.  But when you make shit up to have a dig at him or anyone else for that matter I will call you out on it.  Pathetic.

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bullshit. I’m not even talking about Smith. I don’t care what you’re opinion of him is.  But when you make shit up to have a dig at him or anyone else for that matter I will call you out on it.  Pathetic.

How do I make stuff up? 

I'm not the one who who comes up with nonsensical claims that a team needs to be together for 5 years in order to get them to consistently perform. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

How do I make stuff up? 

I'm not the one who who comes up with nonsensical claims that a team needs to be together for 5 years in order to get them to consistently perform. 

You just said Mourinho had to do a complete overhaul. You made that up. He took over a squad that was one of the best in Europe and added 4-5 world class players to it. How the **** can you compare that to a manager that starts the Premier League campaign with 2 first team players?  Give me a break. 

[Indigo]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

How do I make stuff up? 

What you said about Chelsea this evening like.

[villalad21]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You just said Mourinho had to do a complete overhaul. You made that up. He took over a squad that was one of the best in Europe and added 4-5 world class players to it. How the **** can you compare that to a manager that starts the Premier League campaign with 2 first team players?  Give me a break. 

Signed more than 4-5 players but OK buddy. 

If you look at their lineup in the 04/5 season I bet there would be at least 6-7 new players in that lineup. 

If I'm wrong I'd happily concede my argument using that example. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by villalad21

[OutByEaster?]

16 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I will keep focusing on the facts, and that's the team not performing for 6 months.

Being passive. 

Showing no character on the pitch.

Loser mentality.

These aren't facts, they're opinions.

I don't believe we're passive, nor that we show no character or have a loser mentality - that's not fact, it's just my opinion.

 

[Mark Albrighton]

8 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

You people keep digging your heads in the sand and blame everything else to protect your buddy. 

I will keep focusing on the facts, and that's the team not performing for 6 months.

Being passive. 

Showing no character on the pitch.

Loser mentality.

And that's on the manager. Not a lack of team chemistry. Not the Refs. Not VAR. The manager. 

The manager. Who lest we forget according to you...

On 15/05/2021 at 15:05, villalad21 said:

Smith is doing a good job but not as good as Bielsa

So not as good as your boy, but doing a good job nonetheless. According to you.

And you might want to count back six months and see when you end up. And then you might want to look at January and consider that 2 wins out of 5 (when taking into account two of fixtures were against the Manchesters and the dubious decisions that occurred in those games) isn’t that bad.

So really, it’s more like 3 and a half months of poor, patchy form, rather than the 6 you’re trying to claim.

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Signed more than 4-5 players but OK buddy. 

He did but half of them never played. Which means he took over a good squad already. The core of the team was already there Buddy!  

You have enough to be upset about Smith. I get that. Why you have to make stuff up I have no idea. You just love attention don’t you? Well done, you’ve got it.

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

These aren't facts, they're opinions.

I don't believe we're passive, nor that we show no character or have a loser mentality - that's not fact, it's just my opinion.

 

How often do we come back from games when trailing? 

There is no character in this team. When the going gets rough they crumble. 

If you don't question the mentality after watching us in 2021 i don't really know what to say to you. With all due respect. 

[Indigo]

Chelsea from their 4th place, pre-Abramovich season to the following year actually improved by fewer points than we already have by this season from last.

I'd say Abramovich looks at Deano and thinks "if only I could have gotten him in 2003".

Edited May 17, 2021 by Indigo

[OutByEaster?]

I'll take you not having mentioned it as an acceptance on your part that those weren't facts and were opinions.

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

How often do we come back from games when trailing? 

Not as often as I'd like us to. Which is every time we're trailing.

Quote

There is no character in this team. When the going gets rough they crumble. 

Again, that's your opinion, I think there's character in the side, there's more to winning games that being John Wayne. Sometimes we're not good enough, we don't have the depth to change things or we're not fit enough, and yep, sometimes we're outfought, occasionally we're outthought, it can be tricky because very often the other team wants to win too.

Quote

If you don't question the mentality after watching us in 2021 i don't really know what to say to you. With all due respect. 

Then say nothing. Please.

 

[HKP90]

2 hours ago, GENTLEMAN said:

Of course as supporters we don't have the experience of a top class coach and are not exposed to all information, but what is the alternative? We cannot question any decision a manager/coach has ever made owing to the argument from authority. Goodbye journalism. Hell, this would extend to most topics from politics to philosophy. What a boring and unproductive existence. We form opinions based on our experiences and the information/data available to us. In this age of information, we piece together and read between the lines. We should be able to follow the logic of a decision. 

To me there are two ways of viewing our opinions as supporters:

One is that they are meaningless. That they don't have any impact on the clubs decision making process. That a coach could not be persuaded to explain or change his process based on fan consensus because, well, you're just a fan who has very little experience of professional football. 

The other is that our opinions definitely have meaning. That they can influence the world, that they can be utilised to persuade other fans, which can be formed into a consensus. And that consensus of fan opinion may sway a decision the board could make. Or could serve to make a coach perform better or explain his decisions with more clarity. I prefer this view, and more importantly believe it to be true. If I believe this, I would rather that opinion be as close to the 'truth' as I could possibly get. As I've said, it is not lost on me the good work Smith has done and qualities his possess. I back and support him. I have made impassioned defences of his tenure IRL. I am just trying to pry under that belief, see how solid it is. See if other supporters opinions alter or strengthen that belief.

Nice post. I would add though that my point was not so much whether your opinion (or mine) has the potential to influence the decisions of the management (although that was one element), but rather whether it should. 

You mention that it would be goodbye to journalism, but again journalists are trained to understand (and in some more nefarious cases to exploit) their biases. The vast majority of people on this site are not journalists. Or coaches.

Our opinion has, and should have less weight than professional coaches, managers and club directors. Not no weight, but less weight. 
 

Application of collective pressure without first obtaining the understanding to apply it appropriately has throughout history resulted in some very bad things indeed.

 
 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by HKP90

[villalad21]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He did but half of them never played. Which means he took over a good squad already. The core of the team was already there Buddy!  

You have enough to be upset about Smith. I get that. Why you have to make stuff up I have no idea. You just love attention don’t you? Well done, you’ve got it.

Would you not say Smith have a great core right now? 

Konsa, Mings, Targett, Grealish etc all have a great understanding on the pitch by now. 

I find it baffling how the "lack of chemistry" claim is still being thrown out here on a regular basis. 

I think even Smith himself would refuse that claim. 

[mykeyb]

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 12 months time as it will be clearer who was right.

Will it be the Pro-Smith posters who won't hear a bad word about Smith who never actually post any comments about the manager but run around like little terriers snapping at anyone who dares to criticize their man. The majority who want Smith to stay but who raise questions about the managers performances in the same way as they would about players or the anti-Smith minority who have decided 12 months on that he again isn't the many to take the club forward and are quite vocal on the matter.

Time will tell.

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, mykeyb said:

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 12 months time as it will be clearer who was right.

Will it be the Pro-Smith posters who won't hear a bad word about Smith who never actually post any comments about the manager but run around like little terriers snapping at anyone who dares to criticize their man. The majority who want Smith to stay but who raise questions about the managers performances in the same way as they would about players or the anti-Smith minority who have decided 12 months on that he again isn't the many to take the club forward and are quite vocal on the matter.

Time will tell.

Every manager who ever worked in football has been sacked eventually.

It’s rarely ever clear whether it was the right thing to do, because it’s impossible to know what would have happened had they stayed. 

I doubt anything will be settled definitively.

 

[MentalM]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Would you not say Smith have a great core right now? 

Konsa, Mings, Targett, Grealish etc all have a great understanding on the pitch by now. 

I find it baffling how the "lack of chemistry" claim is still being thrown out here on a regular basis. 

I think even Smith himself would refuse that claim. 

We have players who last season played their first season in PL. All of them in my eyes have improved in my eyes in current season greatly. I might have overlooked the part of 5 years you seem to refer to, but I doubt anyone here would claim we need to wait 5 years for them to settle and get chemistry.

If the players we signed for this season improve as much as the ones who improved from the season before we would have a team of world beaters. Add that with some key signings and we should push Europe next season.

I dont agree with no character - we came back when trailing vs Fulham and basically looked prime Liverpool in how we turned it around.

No motivation? I saw our team play Palace around their fingers in parts of first half.

We lack quality and endurance. We are naive at times, due to lack of experience.

To your hate on Smith: I agree he needs to improve his ingame management, but I want to believe he can improve. He took criticism last season, and changed how we approached the game and suddenly we stopped conceding 4 goals per game. With how greatly we have improved over his time from season to season, perhaps we should be patient for one more season that is according to the plan we had? The one the owners, Smith and everyone has told us. One season to survive, one to regroup, one to push (which would be next season). I wish he would make changed pro actively, I 100% agree with you. I wish he would use the bench more. I wish to believe he does that next season when our squad depth will be much bigger  

You find these one things you do not like and keep jabbing on about it, the hate towards Traore and Wesley. Now its Smith being not a good enough manager for us.