Dean Smith

[TRO]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Good post, but this bit, he had to consider how long could Jack play for. Bring him on too soon, he picks up an injury and is out of the Euros. He’s not fully match fit and probably 25 - 30 minutes was the max.

it is clear, his options are limited and to be fair Jack is not match fit either....I guess the injuries are piling up too, but we let Hourihane go, maybe in hindsight, it might have been better to keep him.

look, Its not easy, I accept that and giving the youth game time to keep them on side, its a big challenge.

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, weedman said:

This point is underrated, it's telling that the only managers ever compared to Smith are ones that have had years moulding their squads to be at a similar level as us. Last season it was Wilder, this year it's Bielsa

Smith has had to oversee an enormous turnover of players and squad in a really short period of time, and despite this has generated a fantastic team spirit and seen us steadily improve since he first walked through the door. 

He's not perfect, and there's areas that can improve for sure, but anyone that isn't happy with Dean Smith as Aston Villa manager needs to have a long think about where we were before him 

So we're supposed to wait 5 years in order to fully judge Smith?

Sorry but that's not how football works. Either Smith turns this horrific form around or he will be gone very soon.

Yeah we've been through a big rebuild but at the other side of the argument Smith is extremely fortunate to have been given the resources he has to do that rebuild. Most promoted clubs would not afford their manager such luxury and would make the manager have to work wonders with the likes of Jedinak, Whelan, Kodjia etc.

But hey. What a poor guy. Feel so bad for him that he didn't have a "settled" squad and didn't have to make do with a bunch of average championship players. 

 I get really frustrated with this "settled" squad argument. It's just a safety net to protect Smith with.

Edited May 17, 2021 by villalad21

[GENTLEMAN]

23 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

The trouble with that argument- that providing you find logic in decisions then you are happy with them- is that you neither have the experience/training of a top class coach, nor do you see the players on a daily basis, only the ones you see on the pitch. 
 

The point I’m trying to make is that any position we take on the matter is in no way objective, and frankly the both of us are not qualified to make them. 
 

Therefore any discussion can only be a bit of fun, and pure speculation.

Of course as supporters we don't have the experience of a top class coach and are not exposed to all information, but what is the alternative? We cannot question any decision a manager/coach has ever made owing to the argument from authority. Goodbye journalism. Hell, this would extend to most topics from politics to philosophy. What a boring and unproductive existence. We form opinions based on our experiences and the information/data available to us. In this age of information, we piece together and read between the lines. We should be able to follow the logic of a decision. 

To me there are two ways of viewing our opinions as supporters:

One is that they are meaningless. That they don't have any impact on the clubs decision making process. That a coach could not be persuaded to explain or change his process based on fan consensus because, well, you're just a fan who has very little experience of professional football. 

The other is that our opinions definitely have meaning. That they can influence the world, that they can be utilised to persuade other fans, which can be formed into a consensus. And that consensus of fan opinion may sway a decision the board could make. Or could serve to make a coach perform better or explain his decisions with more clarity. I prefer this view, and more importantly believe it to be true. If I believe this, I would rather that opinion be as close to the 'truth' as I could possibly get. As I've said, it is not lost on me the good work Smith has done and qualities his possess. I back and support him. I have made impassioned defences of his tenure IRL. I am just trying to pry under that belief, see how solid it is. See if other supporters opinions alter or strengthen that belief.

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

So we're supposed to wait 5 years in order to fully judge Smith?

Sorry but that's not how football works. Either Smith turns this horrific form around or he will be gone very soon.

Yeah we've been through a big rebuild but at the other side of the argument Smith is extremely fortunate to have been given the resources he has to do that rebuild. Most promoted clubs would not afford their manager such luxury and would make the manager have to work wonders with the likes of Jedinak, Whelan, Kodjia etc.

But hey. What a poor guy. Feel so bad for him that he didn't have a "settled" squad and didn't have to make do with a bunch of average championship players. 

 I get really frustrated with this "settled" squad argument. It's just a safety net to protect Smith with.

Haha you've really decided to go all out now haven't you. 

Smith can be judged right now. He's done a fantastic job. Who said we have to wait 5 years to judge him?

The settled squad was brought up because people keep comparing him to managers who had settled squads. Try and keep up. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, HKP90 said:

The trouble with that argument- that providing you find logic in decisions then you are happy with them- is that you neither have the experience/training of a top class coach, nor do you see the players on a daily basis, only the ones you see on the pitch. 
 

The point I’m trying to make is that any position we take on the matter is in no way objective, and frankly the both of us are not qualified to make them. 
 

Therefore any discussion can only be a bit of fun, and pure speculation.

FWIW, I don’t really think that social media has any influence on Smith’s decision making, it was a pithy throwaway comment which I was trying to use to highlight negativity on here. I’m kinda regretting saying it now.

join the club.

[villalad21]

9 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Haha you've really decided to go all out now haven't you. 

Smith can be judged right now. He's done a fantastic job. Who said we have to wait 5 years to judge him?

The settled squad was brought up because people keep comparing him to managers who had settled squads. Try and keep up. 

Yeah i get frustrated whenever i see such a ridiculous argument.

A squad doesn't need to be together for 5 seasons in order to get the best out of them. Utter nonsense.

Chelsea became a top team almost instantly after the Roman injection and became a better team than Fergies so called "settled team" over night. Yeah it's on a bigger scale but it's still on the same premise.

On your logic you'd think they would need at least a few years before catching up with the so called settled squads.

Edited May 17, 2021 by villalad21

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Yeah i get frustrated whenever i see such a ridiculous argument.

A squad doesn't need to be together for 5 seasons in order to get the best out of them. Utter nonsense.

You're just making up your own argument to have with yourself. Have fun. Going by your track record, you'll still be wrong. 

[WallisFrizz]

3 minutes ago, GENTLEMAN said:

Of course as supporters we don't have the experience of a top class coach and are not exposed to all information, but what is the alternative? We cannot question any decision a manager/coach has ever made owing to the argument from authority. Goodbye journalism. Hell, this would extend to most topics from politics to philosophy. What a boring and unproductive existence. We form opinions based on our experiences and the information/data available to us. In this age of information, we piece together and read between the lines. We should be able to follow the logic of a decision. 

To me there are two ways of viewing our opinions as supporters:

One is that they are meaningless. That they don't have any impact on the clubs decision making process. That a coach could not be persuaded to explain or change his process based on fan consensus because, well, you're just a fan who has very little experience of professional football. 

The other is that our opinions definitely have meaning. That they can influence the world, that they can be utilised to persuade other fans, which can be formed into a consensus. And that consensus of fan opinion may sway a decision the board could make. Or could serve to make a coach perform better or explain his decisions with more clarity. I prefer this view, and more importantly believe it to be true. If I believe this, I would rather that opinion be as close to the 'truth' as I could possibly get. As I've said, it is not lost on me the good work Smith has done and qualities his possess. I back and support him. I have made impassioned defences of his tenure IRL. I am just trying to pry under that belief, see how solid it is. See if other supporters opinions alter or strengthen that belief.

Excellent post. I agree fan opinion matters, also that some of our opinions are well researched/based on many decades of supporting the club/ playing at some level.

My prediction...they will stick with Smith (I’m not against this but I suspect he is limited), next season could be interesting if we don’t start well. 

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You're just making up your own argument to have with yourself. Have fun. Going by your track record, you'll still be wrong. 

Just have to wait 5 more years and i may get your permission to compare him to Bielsas job

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

46 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

You're not wrong, traores skillset with trezs application and then pray for the consistency balancing itself out... Throw in el ghazi too with his directness and willingness to sniff out a goal and take a shot on

Between them we have a good player, separately they're infuriating 

I've said before, because they are probably worth what we paid for them.

If the combined transfer fees were spent on one winger, there would be a higher chance of us getting closer to the complete article.

This is hopefully the market we will be in this close season.

[vreitti]

20 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Yeah i get frustrated whenever i see such a ridiculous argument.

A squad doesn't need to be together for 5 seasons in order to get the best out of them. Utter nonsense.

Chelsea became a top team almost instantly after the Roman injection and became a better team than Fergies so called "settled team" over night. Yeah it's on a bigger scale but it's still on the same premise.

On your logic you'd think they would need at least a few years before catching up with the so called settled squads.

May I suggest you look up the term 'settled squad' in the dictionary. 

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, vreitti said:

May I suggest you look up the term 'settled squad' in the dictionary. 

There are problems with this team but a lack of chemistry is not one of them.

[DCJonah]

38 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Just have to wait 5 more years and i may get your permission to compare him to Bielsas job

[Indigo]

46 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

 

Chelsea became a top team almost instantly after the Roman injection and became a better team than Fergies so called "settled team" over night. Yeah it's on a bigger scale but it's still on the same premise.

Chelsea had literally finished in the top 4 the season before Abramovich took over (and IIRC were a top 6 side for several years prior). They were already competing at the upper end of the table and the takeover merely pushed them onto the next level, as it should have. Only climbed two places the follow year after that massive investment as well, maybe if they had a manager of Dean Smith's calibre they'd have actually won the league straight away considering how many places he's pushed us up each season without fail.

[a m ole]

6 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Chelsea had literally finished in the top 4 the season before Abramovich took over (and IIRC were a top 6 side for several years prior). They were already competing at the upper end of the table and the takeover merely pushed them onto the next level, as it should have. Only climbed two places the follow year after that massive investment as well, maybe if they had a manager of Dean Smith's calibre they'd have actually won the league straight away considering how many places he's pushed us up each season without fail.

Their squad at the time was very good too, although aging it didn’t need an entire overhaul.

Quote

No. Pos. Nation Player 1 GK  NED Ed de Goey 2 DF  ESP Albert Ferrer 3 DF  NGA Celestine Babayaro 6 DF  FRA Marcel Desailly 7 DF  NED Winston Bogarde 8 MF  ENG Frank Lampard 9 FW  NED Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink 11 MF  NED Boudewijn Zenden 12 MF  CRO Mario Stanić 13 DF  FRA William Gallas 14 DF  ENG Graeme Le Saux 15 DF  NED Mario Melchiot

No. Pos. Nation Player 17 MF  FRA Emmanuel Petit 20 MF  ENG Jody Morris 21 MF  ESP Enrique de Lucas 22 FW  ISL Eiður Guðjohnsen 23 GK  ITA Carlo Cudicini 25 FW  ITA Gianfranco Zola 26 DF  ENG John Terry 28 FW  POR Filipe Oliveira 29 DF  GER Robert Huth 30 MF  DEN Jesper Grønkjær 36 MF  ENG Joe Keenan 39 FW  ENG Carlton Cole

 

[villalad21]

8 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Chelsea had literally finished in the top 4 the season before Abramovich took over (and IIRC were a top 6 side for several years prior). They were already competing at the upper end of the table and the takeover merely pushed them onto the next level, as it should have. Only climbed two places the follow year after that massive investment as well, maybe if they had a manager of Dean Smith's calibre they'd have actually won the league straight away considering how many places he's pushed us up each season without fail.

There are valid reasons for us not performing at the moment but a lack of team chemistry is not one of them. 

I think it's a laughable argument. 

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, a m ole said:

Their squad at the time was very good too, although aging it didn’t need an entire overhaul.

 

But they did go through a complete overhaul and Mourinho needed zero time to get them "settled" 

[Indigo]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

There are valid reasons for us not performing at the moment but a lack of team chemistry is not one of them. 

I think it's a laughable argument. 

In that case I'm sure you've loads of other examples seeing as the Chelsea one doesn't work.

[PaulC]

19 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Chelsea had literally finished in the top 4 the season before Abramovich took over (and IIRC were a top 6 side for several years prior). They were already competing at the upper end of the table and the takeover merely pushed them onto the next level, as it should have. Only climbed two places the follow year after that massive investment as well, maybe if they had a manager of Dean Smith's calibre they'd have actually won the league straight away considering how many places he's pushed us up each season without fail.

Yes they had an up-turn in fortunes in the late 90s but I seem to remember them being relegated once and getting crowds as low as 4000

[Vive_La_Villa]

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

But they did go through a complete overhaul and Mourinho needed zero time to get them "settled" 

Omg you chat so much shit. Mourinho took over a team that had just finished top 4 and semi final of champions league plus added top players to it with crazy money to spend!
 

I can’t believe how much crap you come out with to have a dig at Smith. It’s cringe worthy to read.