Dean Smith

[TRO]

4 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

When we dropped points under the previous regime we didn't even have the entertainment factor to fall back on. At least we're going out there with the determination to win the game and that, for me , is what matters most.

That's a case for saying I prefer Deans version of a draw more than SB's

I guess most of us would, including me.

I was at the Stoke game....and for me it wasn't my idea of entertainment....too many below par displays from too many players.... and more importantly for me....too many players allowing themselves to be taken out or their game disrupted.

but we have shipped 11 goals in 5 games with 3 games at home( sure one was a freak score) but the manner of them is consistent.....if you are happy with that fine, its your call.....I'm not.

[TRO]

14 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

And as long as we score more than the opposition, then long may it continue. It's an absolute pleasure to see us playing with such bravado and fluidity. 

As Paul Weller once eloquently said, " that's entertainment ".

I can't see Paul Weller's words of wisdom relating to us getting out of this division.

[hippo]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

That's a case for saying I prefer Deans version of a draw more than SB's

I guess most of us would, including me.

I was at the Stoke game....and for me it wasn't my idea of entertainment....too many below par displays from too many players.... and more importantly for me....too many players allowing themselves to be taken out or their game disrupted.

but we have shipped 11 goals in 5 games with 3 games at home( sure one was a freak score) but the manner of them is consistent.....if you are happy with that fine, its your call.....I'm not.

I think we looked knackered. I watched TA jump so half halfheartedly for a header in the second half. I also recall at the end of the 5-5 epic with forest several villa players just collapsed the ground - In some ways thats a good thing the players gave their all to get a result. A good point was also made on here was the ease with which Forest scored their goals - and the hard work put in by villa to get theirs. Superior fitness and motivation ?  or players grinding themselves into the ground.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

All managers want clean sheets, that's an obvious cliche, the difference with Smith is he's not prepared to compromise his footballing principles to achieve them. He sets out to play on the front foot so there will always be an element of risk. It may not please everyone, but it rarely does. I can't get enough of this Aston Villa, but that's a subjective thing and I refuse to have my enjoyment soured.

No one is suggesting your enjoyment should be soured or Dean Smith change his philosophies to accommodate not conceding....Its not an and or either in my view....and I am NOT advocating that.

• Man city manage to do Both
• Liverpool with their new Goalkeeper and CB can now do both.
• Wolves last season did both.

It is also not inconceivable to be entertained by a defender, who has a complete command of his duties....i.e Macca & Laursen.

I much prefer the way Dean Smith sets up.....but I will not be fully satisfied until we can defend properly and turn draws in to wins.....perhaps I am expecting/hoping for too much?

Edited December 18, 2018 by TRO

[Junxs]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I much prefer the way Dean Smith sets up.....but I will not be fully satisfied until we can defend properly and turn draws in to wins.....perhaps I am expecting/hoping for too much?

We have to remember Dean Smith inherited a defence that was very short on numbers and quality. He has only had 10 games and no transfer windows to try to address this.. he can only use whats at his disposal. Unfair to criticise the defence under his short regime so far. If we are still conceding stupid goals at the start of next season after 2 transfer windows then I think its fair to ask questions. 

Sometimes I feel he's a victim of his own success that we are playing so well so quickly that people tend to criticise things that are out of his hands for now. After all Bruce was given a free pass in his first season, we went something like 11 games without a win around this time 2 years ago and no one really questioned it - I'm not sure Deano would be allowed this luxury.

[TRO]

37 minutes ago, hippo said:

I think we looked knackered. I watched TA jump so half halfheartedly for a header in the second half. I also recall at the end of the 5-5 epic with forest several villa players just collapsed the ground - In some ways thats a good thing the players gave their all to get a result. A good point was also made on here was the ease with which Forest scored their goals - and the hard work put in by villa to get theirs. Superior fitness and motivation ?  or players grinding themselves into the ground.

Not trying to claim glory Hippo, but I made that point.....and its concerning me.

I am not trying to be negative...but simply highlighting some deficiencies.....IMO

I have been over the moon with Deans involvement....but I still think some players are not what we think they are.

They may well be knackered, I don't know....but what does that mean or say?.....

My concern, is we simply ship too many goals that are cheap to concede.....I have my suspicions and I don't think its the manager.....The problem I fear is that it may not be fixed if we bring players in.

Just one element of our play that is questionable is the amount of aerial balls we fail to deal with or are out muscled....I don't want to see the ball in the air to that degree, but when the opposition choose to play that game like Stoke, we need to have players in the squad who can deal with it.....crikey Samba was no world beater, but he could attack the ball....The midfield, who heads to ball and seizes the initiative in the air?.....if you don't or are unwilling or frit or don't want to, the opposition will seize on it and dictate that area of play.

If we are so expansive and don't let them have the ball fine, but that is not always the case.....when we get in to a scrap like Stoke or Blues to some degree, we are left wanting in those aspects.

I am not advocating we become a team of cloggers or body check every opposition move like Stoke....but IMO we do have to deal with it better than we do.....I would like to see a few come in who can.

Edited December 18, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

35 minutes ago, Junxs said:

We have to remember Dean Smith inherited a defence that was very short on numbers and quality. He has only had 10 games and no transfer windows to try to address this.. he can only use whats at his disposal. Unfair to criticise the defence under his short regime so far. If we are still conceding stupid goals at the start of next season after 2 transfer windows then I think its fair to ask questions. 

Sometimes I feel he's a victim of his own success that we are playing so well so quickly that people tend to criticise things that are out of his hands for now. After all Bruce was given a free pass in his first season, we went something like 11 games without a win around this time 2 years ago and no one really questioned it - I'm not sure Deano would be allowed this luxury.

I am not criticising Dean Smith or the way he plays...lets put that to bed straightaway.....and yes I agree with your (unnecessary) defence of him.

I am merely highlighting what concerns ME during the recent matches....I am equally well aware of the 2 x 3-0 wins away against top opposition, where even Dean smith said the clean sheets were his main joy.......quite something for a manager whose reputation is based on attacking football.

Its not a blame game, I am trying to pinpoint the problem....its the deficiency that I am trying to highlight....You are right it is a back 5 that has inconsistencies and some of the midfield defensive qualities are suspect too....don't forget, the summer was a car crash in terms of preparation, so some mitigation must be fair there too.

If we can win 3-2 ever match my concerns will be shelved....but sadly my expectation would be suspect then.

We need players, no doubt in my mind....just hope we get the ones that make a difference....John McGinn is a player that has shown us how to hunt down the ball, and physically compete.....but just one player can't do it all on his own.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Cjay said:

Cant find the Steve Bruce thread but i think I've stepped into a parallel universe. 

Turned on Sky Sports news to hear which one of the big out of work managers The Pride of Sky TV were looking to appoint.

Zidane, Conte, someone like that.

Imagine my shock when (with a totally straight face). 

The Sky reporter said.

"Someone like Steve Bruce fits there criteria". . . . . . . . . . . . .

Should be some sort of health warning before saying things like that.

"Please be advised, you may experience loss of consciousness through laughter".

Best laugh ive had all day.

 

I think the criteria he fits is " The out of work bit"

[Vive_La_Villa]

This is the first game I haven’t seen since Smith took over but looking at the games where we dropped points I think we should have at least got a point v QPR and Norwich and 3 points v Forest and WBA. That’s 6 points lost due to a combination of poor keeping and defending. Whether it’s personal or style of play our defence is a problem. It’s something that has to be worked on. 

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I can't see Paul Weller's words of wisdom relating to us getting out of this division.

Don't bother bringing a bottle, I'm thinking, maybe it's not your kind of thing.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

This is the first game I haven’t seen since Smith took over but looking at the games where we dropped points I think we should have at least got a point v QPR and Norwich and 3 points v Forest and WBA. That’s 6 points lost due to a combination of poor keeping and defending. Whether it’s personal or style of play our defence is a problem. It’s something that has to be worked on. 

I think its personnel.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think its personnel.

I do too but I think certain players are not being as protected as much as Bruce’s everyone behind the ball and play on the break. 

Defenders are getting exposed for how good they really are..

[VillaChris]

20 hours ago, TRO said:

so what went wrong at our place?

have they just found some form?

Yes they're 9 unbeaten.

I just think without Grealish we simply couldn't get the ball quick enough from central midfield to the wide players and so they were double marked by the time they got the ball and were nulified.

One time that didn't happen Bolaise hit the cross of the match for 2-2.

Trust me TRO my friend, go on the Oatcake forum and none of them think they have a good back 4 at all. And that's under a defensive minded manager.

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

No one is suggesting your enjoyment should be soured or Dean Smith change his philosophies to accommodate not conceding....Its not an and or either in my view....and I am NOT advocating that.

• Man city manage to do Both
• Liverpool with their new Goalkeeper and CB can now do both.
• Wolves last season did both.

It is also not inconceivable to be entertained by a defender, who has a complete command of his duties....i.e Macca & Laursen.

I much prefer the way Dean Smith sets up.....but I will not be fully satisfied until we can defend properly and turn draws in to wins.....perhaps I am expecting/hoping for too much?

Jurgen  Klopp has been at Liverpool, how long ? Same with Pep, took him longer than many thought. Dean Smith hasn't even had a transfer window, maybe you are expecting too much, in too soon a time .

Edited December 18, 2018 by sheepyvillian

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

Yes they're 9 unbeaten.

I just think without Grealish we simply couldn't get the ball quick enough from central midfield to the wide players and so they were double marked by the time they got the ball and were nulified.

One time that didn't happen Bolaise hit the cross of the match for 2-2.

Trust me TRO my friend, go on the Oatcake forum and none of them think they have a good back 4 at all. And that's under a defensive minded manager.

FWIW, I'd probably take their back 4 over ours and Butland is the best goalkeeper in the league IMO.

[VillaChris]

I've always felt Butland is a little overrated tbh.

For someone who could've been England's number one at the WC he's let in a ridiculous amount of goals last 18 months. I just see him as Ben Foster level really.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Jurgen  Klopp has been at Liverpool, how long ? Same with Pep, took him longer than many thought. Dean Smith hasn't even had a transfer window, maybe you are expecting too much, in too soon a time .

I'm not expecting anything....I am not criticising Dean Smith, you are right he has only been here a few weeks.

just making an observation.

[Dave-R]

12 hours ago, Junxs said:

We have to remember Dean Smith inherited a defence that was very short on numbers and quality. He has only had 10 games and no transfer windows to try to address this.. he can only use whats at his disposal. Unfair to criticise the defence under his short regime so far. If we are still conceding stupid goals at the start of next season after 2 transfer windows then I think its fair to ask questions. 

Sometimes I feel he's a victim of his own success that we are playing so well so quickly that people tend to criticise things that are out of his hands for now. After all Bruce was given a free pass in his first season, we went something like 11 games without a win around this time 2 years ago and no one really questioned it - I'm not sure Deano would be allowed this luxury.

Perfect, people need to lay the hell off our man Smith, it's obvious why too.

has my full support and more..

Edited December 19, 2018 by Dave-R

[A'Villan]

14 hours ago, Junxs said:

We have to remember Dean Smith inherited a defence that was very short on numbers and quality. He has only had 10 games and no transfer windows to try to address this.. he can only use whats at his disposal. Unfair to criticise the defence under his short regime so far. If we are still conceding stupid goals at the start of next season after 2 transfer windows then I think its fair to ask questions. 

Sometimes I feel he's a victim of his own success that we are playing so well so quickly that people tend to criticise things that are out of his hands for now. After all Bruce was given a free pass in his first season, we went something like 11 games without a win around this time 2 years ago and no one really questioned it - I'm not sure Deano would be allowed this luxury.

If he has us playing brilliantly on the ball but the defense is compromised as a result then I see no issue in making comment on it, despite his lack of transfer windows. FWIW I don't think the defense lacks quality, it may lack depth and 1 or 2 additions would be welcome but it is far from poor for this division, even though it's not exactly where or what we want it to be.

There's always going to be ways that opposing teams can find to optimise their chance of penetrating space and creating a chance to score. This is something we've done well under Smith thus far. At the other end, there is a means of nullifying opposition threats so the opportunity to create chances and occupy space is limited. This is slightly compromised but far from neglected under Smith so far. We force errors and intercept opposition plays well, but with the way we push forward as a team we also have to scramble back which can be exposed.

The fact that we enjoy a much higher pass completion rate than our opponents as well as higher possession share goes to show that we are effective at making good use of the ball and our time on it but can also prevent the opposition from doing their thing and setting the tempo. This alone is enough to make us competitive in any fixture.

[Stevo985]

22 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Way off Topic.

However, did anyone start seeing parallels between Mourinho and Bruce recently?

Throwing players under the bus, grossly underperforming with a big club and top players, stubborn, and blaming all and sundry aside from himself.

Just been sacked, and like us, they probably held on to him for too long where season is a write off.

Just goes to show, no matter the pedigree, if you refuse to update your tactics/methods, be malleable and LEARN to modernise your game, you are going nowhere fast.

I love how Dean Smith always emphasises trying to learn and get better!

Definite parallels.

Although Bruce throwing players under the bus is exaggerated on here. He was nowhere near as bad as Jose has been, particularly this season