Dean Smith

[sne]

While competing in the Europa League is obviously quite a way from winning it I feel going forward it represents our biggest chance of getting into the CL.

I honestly don't see us ever finishing among the CL places in the league (freak seasons do happen of course) but if we build a strong team and qualifies for the Europa League and win it we get into the CL that way. 

Obviously this too would be a huge long shot and is highly unlikely. More likely scenario is that the CL format is changed even more to make it even harder for clubs like us to ever get in.

As for Smith I'm sure this season just like the last one has been a valuable learning experience and look forward to see how we look next season. And I do hope we get to see some of our youngsters in the first team this season thou I'm well aware that it's the Villa Talk way to come up with as many reasons as possible as to why any given game is the wrong one to give young players time on the pitch.

[AvfcRigo82]

13 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think qualifying for Europa League while great on paper would push us back a season.

I've always read that we are 'a year ahead of where we want to be'..

So qualifying for Europe should even this out?   

[barry'sboots]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It’s a fair opinion.   But maybe they are just not ready or good enough?  Ramsey was given his chance in a position we have quite a few players so it’s not like the door is shut.

I don't care whether they are ready or not, they cannot be much worse than Barkley, Trez and AEG?? (slightly tongue in cheek!!).

JPB sticks out because he is a bit older.  The big clubs around Europe were sniffing after him.  He has just signed his first professional contract. 

If Bellingham has been doing it on a regular basis in the Bundesliga at 17 then some of ours, if they are as good as we are led to believe, must be able to contribute on the run in.   I see people saying to put them into a struggling team would be wrong but I think they are confusing "struggling" with a team under pressure.  We are under no pressure - already safe and little realistic chance of Europe even if we wanted it.

I think it is the perfect time to blood the better/more ready youngsters.  I'm not talking about throwing 5 in at once but giving 1 or 2 a chance to play with 9 or 10 first teamers.  I'm sure, if you asked them, they would love that chance.  It gives us a chance to look at them playing men's football and then plan the next step for them.  I think Jacob Ramsey will have massively benefited from his experience this year and it has put him in the shop window - I am hoping that, next season, he will go out on loan to a top Championship side and play 30+ games in a season.

Edited March 27, 2021 by barry'sboots

[barry'sboots]

4 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I've always read that we are 'a year ahead of where we want to be'..

So qualifying for Europe should even this out?   

I think we are slightly too early because our kids are too young.  In a year or two's time the 17 and 18 year olds will be 18, 19 & 20 and we will be able to blend some of these, if they are not all out on loan, in with a better second string (given a couple of windows) and really see the benefit of the Europa League for keeping the broader squad happy and trying things out.

[Vive_La_Villa]

15 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

I don't care whether they are ready or not, they cannot be much worse than Barkley, Trez and AEG?? (slightly tongue in cheek!!).

JPB sticks out because he is a bit older.  The big clubs around Europe were sniffing after him.  He has just signed his first professional contract. 

If Bellingham has been doing it on a regular basis in the Bundesliga at 17 then some of ours, if they are as good as we are led to believe, must be able to contribute on the run in.   I see people saying to put them into a struggling team would be wrong but I think they are confusing "struggling" with a team under pressure.  We are under no pressure - already safe and little realistic chance of Europe even if we wanted it.

I think it is the perfect time to blood the better youngsters.  I'm not talking about throwing 5 in at once but giving 1 or 2 a chance to play with 9 or 10 first teamers.  I'm sure, if you asked them, they would love that chance.  It gives us a chance to look at them playing men's football and then plan the next step for them.  I think Jacob Ramsey will have massively benefited from his experience this year and it has put him in the shop window - I am hoping that, next season, he will go out on loan to a top Championship side and play 30+ games in a season.

I suppose so. I can just see youngsters being fielded when they are not ready and the game completely passing them by. Yes they should get a shot at the fist team, but they must be ready.  I suppose you could argue if they are on the bench it means they are.  I personally think they were on the bench because there were no alternatives. It was just to make up the numbers.

edit: A lot of money has gone in to the academy so Smith has to show he is trying to integrate players in to the first team training and squad. Doesn’t mean they are anywhere near good enough for the Premier League.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[barry'sboots]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Doesn’t mean they are anywhere near good enough for the Premier League.

Are Trez, AEG and, in his current form, Barkley??

They can't be any worse.  The experience would be massive for them.  The fans would like to see it.  I don't see a downside??

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Are Trez, AEG and, in his current form, Barkley??

They can't be any worse.  The experience would be massive for them.  The fans would like to see it.  I don't see a downside??

Well that’s kind of my point. If they can’t get in the team when the likes of Trez AEG and Barkley are playing as they are it means they are not good enough and unlikely to ever feature.

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, sne said:

I honestly don't see us ever finishing among the CL places in the league (freak seasons do happen of course) but if we build a strong team and qualifies for the Europa League and win it we get into the CL that way. 

Why? It all depends what the owners do.  Until we see that we can’t really say because we have nothing to base it on.  Obviously our current team isn’t top 4 but who knows what the future holds in a couple of years time when we’ve had some a couple more summer transfer windows and our current first XI are young have had a couple more years of growth/experience.  The likes of Konsa, Emi, Jack and Ollie at our core puts us in a good base if our owners want to push.

[sne]

20 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Why? It all depends what the owners do.  Until we see that we can’t really say because we have nothing to base it on.  Obviously our current team isn’t top 4 but who knows what the future holds in a couple of years time when we’ve had some a couple more summer transfer windows and our current first XI are young have had a couple more years of growth/experience.  The likes of Konsa, Emi, Jack and Ollie at our core puts us in a good base if our owners want to push.

Sure anything can happen. If our owners continue to outspend all but a very few clubs in the world year after year after year then we could catch up. But I think it's harder to become the new Chelsea these days. The likes of Liverpool, Man C, Man U and Chelsea are decades ahead of us and their revenues are so much bigger. And we have to catch Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester and Everton first. On and off the pitch.

Not saying it's impossible, just that I don't think we will. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by sne

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, sne said:

Sure anything can happen. If our owners continue to outspend all but a very few clubs in the world year after year after year then we could catch up. But I think it's harder to become the new Chelsea these days. The likes of Liverpool, Man C, Man U and Chelsea are decades ahead of us and their revenues are so much bigger. And we have to catch Arsenal, Spurs and Everton first. On and off the pitch.

Not saying it's impossible, just that I don't think we will. 

I agree with what you are saying.  We are probably going to be the second category most likely.  Hopefully with constant failures of Arsenal/Spurs and it seems always one of the big four have a bad season that we compete with Leicester in a couple of seasons time trying to pinch a top four spot given how well our club seems to be run at the moment and the ambition of the owners.

Over ambitious I know but in current form I’m trying to be optimistic for the future.  The summer recruitment may give us a better idea of the future in terms of ambition.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

I'm on the fence regards Europa League. I can see the obvious benefit of being able to offer European competition to summer recruits, which may or may not impact the level of player we can attract (although i suspect ££££'s is the more interesting factor to most). On the other hand it would clearly be a burden regards fixture congestion.... Unless we did a Martin O'neill and threw it if it got too much as that's surely the only way it would help with signings but not deteriorate our form next season?

 

I think its all about being ready in terms of development, else the burden, can affect the league performances.

We give the ball away too often and too easily to be seriously considered, for Europe.....If we can improve that and our passing, it might be a more comfortable encounter.

[sharkyvilla]

17 hours ago, MrBlack said:

1874 pages. A page for every year of our club's existence, and most of them positive.  Nice one Dean. 

I'm not sure they are mostly positive, this thread booms as soon as there is a bad result or poor form, which is a bit sad.

[barry'sboots]

3 hours ago, nick76 said:

I agree with what you are saying.  We are probably going to be the second category most likely.  Hopefully with constant failures of Arsenal/Spurs and it seems always one of the big four have a bad season that we compete with Leicester in a couple of seasons time trying to pinch a top four spot given how well our club seems to be run at the moment and the ambition of the owners.

Over ambitious I know but in current form I’m trying to be optimistic for the future.  The summer recruitment may give us a better idea of the future in terms of ambition.

Leicester are establishing themselves and they aren't outspending the Big 6.  They just have strong recruitment and a very good manager!  They have sold one of their best players every season for the last three or four seasons but manage to plug the gaps with even better!

Wolves nearly did it but their owners ran out of cash, or at least the ability or appetite to get it out of China.

And we are a bigger club - infrastructure, history, fan base - than either of those two with wealthier owners.

And I am now reading the FFP is about to be binned as well.

We definitely have an opportunity, if NSWE have the appetite and want to go for it, to break into the top 6/4.  As you say, the summer could be a key indicator .... 

[MrBlack]

3 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

I'm not sure they are mostly positive, this thread booms as soon as there is a bad result or poor form, which is a bit sad.

I generally choose not to visit the day of a bad result.  Let things settle for a couple of days  and perspective has generally settled in by then. 

Still, you're right that is sad and absolute madness given where he's brought us from.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

I generally choose not to visit the day of a bad result.  Let things settle for a couple of days  and perspective has generally settled in by then. 

Still, you're right that is sad and absolute madness given where he's brought us from.

Somebody said many pages ago that if we hadn’t had such a good start and had been consistently tenth in the league all season would the reaction have been different.  

Coming from where we were last season to 10th is great progression.  I think too many got excited early on and feel let down now, which I find hard to understand because we were always likely to have some bad form at some stage, our squad is small and all the other reasons that have been debated over and over again so no need to rehash.

As I’ve said before I’m also keen to here constructive criticism but sometimes it borders into being negative because they want to be negative at any opportunity possible.  It’s only some people, some have genuine issues or are just worry but we do have some that only pipe up when we lose.  We have things to sort out, we need to keep improving, we need to stop being so reliant on Jack and we need more players that is all true but some people just want to be negative whenever they can.

[Tommo_b]

21 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Somebody said many pages ago that if we hadn’t had such a good start and had been consistently tenth in the league all season would the reaction have been different.  

Coming from where we were last season to 10th is great progression.  I think too many got excited early on and feel let down now, which I find hard to understand because we were always likely to have some bad form at some stage, our squad is small and all the other reasons that have been debated over and over again so no need to rehash.

As I’ve said before I’m also keen to here constructive criticism but sometimes it borders into being negative because they want to be negative at any opportunity possible.  It’s only some people, some have genuine issues or are just worry but we do have some that only pipe up when we lose.  We have things to sort out, we need to keep improving, we need to stop being so reliant on Jack and we need more players that is all true but some people just want to be negative whenever they can.

Think it’s forgotten that Southampton were top of the league and being heralded as great at one point this season...

Aston Villa are having a fine season compared to what we should have been expected to be having. 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Somebody said many pages ago that if we hadn’t had such a good start and had been consistently tenth in the league all season would the reaction have been different.  

Coming from where we were last season to 10th is great progression.  I think too many got excited early on and feel let down now, which I find hard to understand because we were always likely to have some bad form at some stage, our squad is small and all the other reasons that have been debated over and over again so no need to rehash.

As I’ve said before I’m also keen to here constructive criticism but sometimes it borders into being negative because they want to be negative at any opportunity possible.  It’s only some people, some have genuine issues or are just worry but we do have some that only pipe up when we lose.  We have things to sort out, we need to keep improving, we need to stop being so reliant on Jack and we need more players that is all true but some people just want to be negative whenever they can.

It's not necessarily just bad form though (although our form has clearly tailed off in 2021 and even more so since Jack got injured).

We have never won a match after going behind. And we have performed worse against the top 10 than the bottom half. Most of our remaining games are against top half clubs.

These are structural issues which need to be addressed by the coaching team.

However, I have learnt from experience that if you try to raise issues like this on these pages, you get accused of insanity, negativity, impatience, disrespect for the manager, disloyalty, and being a Steve Bruce supporter, so I am not really looking to engage in any discussion about this.

 

[barry'sboots]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Well that’s kind of my point. If they can’t get in the team when the likes of Trez AEG and Barkley are playing as they are it means they are not good enough and unlikely to ever feature.

Not necessarily.  It might just mean that Smith does not want to take the risk of playing younger players or upsetting his first team squad.  It does not necessarily mean he is right - that is what we are debating??

[nick76]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

It's not necessarily just bad form though (although our form has clearly tailed off in 2021 and even more so since Jack got injured).

We have never won a match after going behind. And we have performed worse against the top 10 than the bottom half. Most of our remaining games are against top half clubs.

These are structural issues which need to be addressed by the coaching team.

However, I have learnt from experience that if you try to raise issues like this on these pages, you get accused of insanity, negativity, impatience, disrespect for the manager, disloyalty, and being a Steve Bruce supporter, so I am not really looking to engage in any discussion about this.

 

But what you have said is not unreasonable.  It’s when unreasonable comments come in from people, then other people like myself comment back and get accused of following Smith blindly, accepting 14th/15th in league etc and then Smith this and that if he doesn’t do something.

What you have said is reasonable and then can be discussed because while I’ll argue as above, I still have issues like the parts you said in paragraph 2.  I worry that our set pieces are the worst I’ve seen for a very long time, I worry that Jack is our only real creator, I worry Ollie is our only decent striker, I worry we make too many silly passing errors in midfield, I worry our squad is paper thin.  All valid arguments and discussion points.

Again my point is when people become too negative and seem like Villa is falling apart at the seams.  We’ve all seen those comments and it’s unfair and some only seem to come out the woodwork when we lose.

I agree with your points, I don’t understand why we have a terrible come back problem when we go behind, yet we are one of the best when we go ahead....feels psychological in nature.  Why we are poor yet have some amazing results against some of the biggest teams. I do disagree about the structural issues if you don’t mind, we still are 10th with a game in hand, we have a small squad and only our second season but this is good point to debate on, which has been rare on this site recently.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by nick76

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, barry'sboots said:

Not necessarily.  It might just mean that Smith does not want to take the risk of playing younger players or upsetting his first team squad.  It does not necessarily mean he is right - that is what we are debating??

If that was the case why would he start Ramsey over Luiz and Sanson in 2 important games?