Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

On 28/03/2021 at 11:15, barry'sboots said:

I was being a tad controversial and I also quite liked Mourinho's quote so I thought it worthy of a post and the manager's string was the obvious place! 

I do agree with a large part of what you have said but I think people who question Smith are often bashed unfairly as fitting into the category you describe as "piping up only when we lose and are disingenuous".  It is hard to be critical of a Villa team that is rolling over Liverpool and Arsenal and why would we want to!  If we had carried on like that, there would certainly be very few critics.  However, I feel that the recent run we have been on makes Smith fair game for criticism, or at least discussion.  Everybody can have bad games and even runs of bad games, as Liverpool have shown.  What frustrates me about Smith is his unwillingness to try anything new to try and get a spark and his doggedness in sticking with his tried and trusted that week in week out, at the minute, is producing very poor football.

We have discussed the diamond and KD up top with Ollie.  I know you are not a fan of KD and I obviously have more belief in his potential but I am amazed that anyone can defend a manager that keeps persisting with Trezeguet and, to a lesser extent, AEG.  My system might not be fantastic/the answer but it has got to be worth a shot given how poor the incumbents have been over the past 10 games or so?  I am also massively surprised as to how a midfield trio of Luiz - McGinn - Barkely have gone from being up there with the best in the PL to being hopeless - there has got to be something there that is more than just form??

I am critical of Smith, but that doesn't mean I want him out.  I was desperate to get him in earlier than we did partly because of the football he was playing at Brentford and partly because of the dire football we were playing under Bruce - he defo appeared the right choice for us at the time.  It also helps massively that he is one of our own!  However, I don't think he is beyond criticism and I think he does have areas/weaknesses that we should be discussing openly without everyone jumping down people's throats because we are safe this year. 

I hope that Dean can address any weaknesses and evolve to become the best coach in the league.  

 

I think there's lots of valid criticism and opinions on Dean. My point has always been why focus on negatives when things in general are so good? I wouldn't focus on the odd errors martinez or jack make because in general they're brilliant. But some are obsessed with picking out every little thing they think Dean does wrong.

I also think a lot of deluded posters convince themselves they're making valid criticism when at the same time, moaning about not finishing in the top 6 or that our progress so far is somehow not good enough. 

[barry'sboots]

37 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think there's lots of valid criticism and opinions on Dean. My point has always been why focus on negatives when things in general are so good? I wouldn't focus on the odd errors martinez or jack make because in general they're brilliant. But some are obsessed with picking out every little thing they think Dean does wrong.

I also think a lot of deluded posters convince themselves they're making valid criticism when at the same time, moaning about not finishing in the top 6 or that our progress so far is somehow not good enough. 

Nothing in my post that moaned about not finishing top 6.

This is a discussion forum.  As such we should be discussing the negatives (hopefully "opportunities for improvement") as much as the positives??  This would be a pretty boring site if every one just came on and praised everything, especially given the the terrible run of form that we are currently experiencing.

And no-one is focusing on the odd errors that Jack or Emi have made because they are just that - "odd errors".  I, and some others, feel that Smith is currently, and has before, consistently making the same error, hence the discussion.

[barry'sboots]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

my continued frustration, is with our ball retention....its only Jack that seems comfortable on the ball, the other players seem to be so fragile in possession, which can tend to lead to an early release that subsequently relates to a poor pass or we hang on too long and get dispossed......Jack is one of the exceptions to this, one of the reasons, why he stands out so much.....sure he is a rare talent, but surely we should have at least one more that can keep or dominate the ball.

We have clearly made progress, especially defensively.

The two best performances of the year, for me, were Liverpool and Arsenal (a), particularly the latter.  We had 30% possession in the Liverpool game and 41% in the Arsenal game (according to BBC).  So possession is not the key, certainly in the way that Smith has set up for our best performances.  It is being clinical and incisive when you have the ball and being robust and effective when you don't.  Again, these were key factors in the best two recent performances - Leeds (a) and Arsenal (h) - where the latter was the strongest element.  We certainly have largely lost those things recently.  One challenge, perhaps, is that, in getting those results against Top 6 sides, do you get over confident and then try and change the way you play to achieve more possession, especially against lesser teams, but does that backfire when you have not trained or been set up or have the players to do that?

We are chalk and cheese from the pre-Christmas Villa and the current Villa and it isn't just the loss of Jack as we were poor in the weeks before he went out.  The big issues for me are:

• The loss of form/identity of the midfield - brilliant in H1 of the season with Luiz - McGinn - Barkley touted by all pundits as right up there - and hopeless now with all of them being criticised; and
• Our inability to flex when (1) teams come up with a strategy to nullify Jack; or (2) we have to play without Jack.

For the next 10 games he has to address these two areas.

For next season, we probably need to decide what sort of team do we want to become - and target additions accordingly.  Do we want to move towards a possession based side or do we want to remain a quick break side like, say, Leicester?  This should dictate, to some extent, what business we do in the summer and, importantly, where we send the kids on loan.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

We have clearly made progress, especially defensively.

The two best performances of the year, for me, were Liverpool and Arsenal (a), particularly the latter.  We had 30% possession in the Liverpool game and 41% in the Arsenal game (according to BBC).  So possession is not the key, certainly in the way that Smith has set up for our best performances.  It is being clinical and incisive when you have the ball and being robust and effective when you don't.  Again, these were key factors in the best two recent performances - Leeds (a) and Arsenal (h) - where the latter was the strongest element.  We certainly have largely lost those things recently.  One challenge, perhaps, is that, in getting those results against Top 6 sides, do you get over confident and then try and change the way you play to achieve more possession, especially against lesser teams, but does that backfire when you have not trained or been set up or have the players to do that?

We are chalk and cheese from the pre-Christmas Villa and the current Villa and it isn't just the loss of Jack as we were poor in the weeks before he went out.  The big issues for me are:

• The loss of form/identity of the midfield - brilliant in H1 of the season with Luiz - McGinn - Barkley touted by all pundits as right up there - and hopeless now with all of them being criticised; and
• Our inability to flex when (1) teams come up with a strategy to nullify Jack; or (2) we have to play without Jack.

For the next 10 games he has to address these two areas.

For next season, we probably need to decide what sort of team do we want to become - and target additions accordingly.  Do we want to move towards a possession based side or do we want to remain a quick break side like, say, Leicester?  This should dictate, to some extent, what business we do in the summer and, importantly, where we send the kids on loan.

I am not saying we need to be a possession based side, that would be inadvertently exaggerating my point.....It doesn't matter what style you play, a player has to retain the ball at some point and we struggle lately.....you can't build anything losing pssession too easily.

Jack is one of the few we have, who can.....hence the reason, stuff is created from him.....the ball sticks to him, our other players lose it too cheaply.

I accept your reasoning.

Only when we have players with varying attributes can we vary our game, right now ,we have too many players the same and subsequently our play is predictable.

Unless we have a team, like Man City, who can play the same way against most opposition, we have to mix it up a bit and become more unpredictable.

 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I think there's lots of valid criticism and opinions on Dean. My point has always been why focus on negatives when things in general are so good? I wouldn't focus on the odd errors martinez or jack make because in general they're brilliant. But some are obsessed with picking out every little thing they think Dean does wrong.

I also think a lot of deluded posters convince themselves they're making valid criticism when at the same time, moaning about not finishing in the top 6 or that our progress so far is somehow not good enough. 

I think its a mind set issue.....your focus on the positives are very noble, but we already have them in the bag, they have been achieved, with much satisfaction, I might add....We are good at some things, else we wouldn't be in 10th place....its improving is the tricky bit and worthy of discussion.

but some of us are intent on improving and while the season as a whole has been stupendous, there is an immediate concern with our present form, one of the features of that form for me, is giving the ball away too cheaply and too often.....That is not an exhaustive comment, we need to improve at other things too....that in my opinion is a priority fix.

We do need to build up momentum to go in to next season with gusto and our chests sticking out, new recruits, will help of course....but we do need to maintain our new found seasonal confidence, its important, we don't go backwards.

I do hope its just a blip, we are going through and there is nothing to worry about, but the last 15 years or so, have taught us to be cautious, with rejoicing.

It is easy to see, why folk disagree on points sometimes both sides take some comments too literally or criticisms ( I prefer to call them observations of discussion) too pointed.

We all love the club, so maybe we should all factor that in with our responses.....

Ps My wife is a season ticket holder, who sits next to me, we don't agree on everything in the game, but many things we do, because we have the opportunity to point out our thinking.....its inevitable we will all disagree on occasions, the trick is, to accept that as normal.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by TRO

[barry'sboots]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not saying we need to be a possession based side, that would be inadvertently exaggerating my point.....It doesn't matter what style you play, a player has to retain the ball at some point and we struggle lately.....you can't build anything losing possession too easily.

I understand and agree.  What I was saying is that, in the earlier part of the season, whilst we didn't have that much of the ball in those games, when we did have it we were using it really effectively.  Now, we are not - to your point - and instead we are increasingly sloppy.  I am asking if that is because we got too confident following those performances, thinking if we can beat the big guys then we can surely dominate the possession and whallop the little guys, and have tried to change our way of playing to do this?  Are we holding on to the ball for longer?  Or are we just struggling to adapt our game to play against teams that sit deeper and don't allow us to operate as a counter attacking side? 

[barry'sboots]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

My wife is a season ticket holder, who sits next to me, we don't agree on everything in the game, but many things we do, because we have the opportunity to point out our thinking.....its inevitable we will all disagree on occasions, the trick is, to accept that as normal.

 

I'm impressed that you can agree with your wife on "many things" in any field let alone football!! 

When you say that you do agree on many things having had the "opportunity to point out [your] thinking", does that mean that in the end you accept that she is right??

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

I understand and agree.  What I was saying is that, in the earlier part of the season, whilst we didn't have that much of the ball in those games, when we did have it we were using it really effectively.  Now, we are not - to your point - and instead we are increasingly sloppy.  I am asking if that is because we got too confident following those performances, thinking if we can beat the big guys then we can surely dominate the possession and whallop the little guys, and have tried to change our way of playing to do this?  Are we holding on to the ball for longer?  Or are we just struggling to adapt our game to play against teams that sit deeper and don't allow us to operate as a counter attacking side? 

I am not sure Barry, but I will hazard a guess.

I think we are now established in the Prem having played for a season and a half and teams are aware of our achilles heel.....So we need to vary our game, more.....but we don't have enough players whose game varies, in order to do that.

I could give examples, but it sometimes becomes a distraction from the point....its not a criticism of Dean, we just need a few more windows, to get a deeper squad, better quality on the ball and off the ball and a more varying set of attributes to allow Dean to Change a game.

I too don't think missing Jack is the whole answer, but he obviously helps, when he is one of the few, who can retain the ball.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

I'm impressed that you can agree with your wife on "many things" in any field let alone football!! 

When you say that you do agree on many things having had the "opportunity to point out [your] thinking", does that mean that in the end you accept that she is right??

I am a very, very experienced, Husband.

I am always right, with her permission.

Ps its funny, my mates in the Aston Social, always used to say " she knows more about football than you".....Thats easy by the way.

pps A really funny story, I went in to Harvey Nichols one day to see my wife, in her workplace, she was holding court with John Carew, Stan Petrov and NRC( customers).....She was telling them the "ins and outs" of some games.....I said jokingly, "take no notice lads, she knows nothing".....John Carew piped up " are you joking she knows more than the gaffa"......when I spoke to them they said your missus knows the game.....I went schtum.

 

[villalad21]

Grealish back will give the whole team a massive lift.

He is everything for us. Our engine, our inspiration, our talisman.

Can see a big improvement against Fulham (If he starts)

[briny_ear]

On 28/03/2021 at 10:17, barry'sboots said:

I feel like half of the people on here are Smithistas - to steal a phrase from Jose - and just believe it is wrong to question any decision a manager makes.  I think they might have spent too long listening to Mourinho! 

https://www.90min.com/posts/jose-mourinho-compares-himself-to-a-rocket-scientist-confesses-his-love-of-mourinistas-01f1qdpa7kh3

Extract:

"Mourinho was later asked how he deals with those who criticise him, and he simply insisted that there is nobody in the world who is worthy of speaking to him about football.

"I don't think anybody is going to discuss rocket science with the guys from NASA, with everybody around the world," he began. "They think they can discuss football with one of the most important managers in the game. That's the beauty of football. I got used to it. I appreciate that. So that's fine for me.""

The funny thing is that Dean Smith in his personality is a million miles distant from Mourinho. None of the preening arrogance and quick temper.

I don't know if he ever gets to read these pages but if he does he must be amused if not a little horrified at the way some posters patrol the thread seeking immediately to close down any attempt to raise questions about the efficacy of any of his decisions.

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think its a mind set issue.....your focus on the positives are very noble, but we already have them in the bag, they have been achieved, with much satisfaction, I might add....We are good at some things else we wouldn't be in 10th place....its improving is the tricky bit and worthy of discussion.

but some of us are intent on improving and while the season as a whole has been stupendous, there is an immediate concern with our present form, one of the features of that form for me, is giving the ball away too cheaply and too often.....That is not an exhaustive comment, we need to improve at other things too....that in my opinion is a priority fix.

We do need to build up momentum to go in to next season with gusto and our chests sticking out, new recruits, will help of course....but we do need to maintain our new found seasonal confidence, its important, we don't go backwards.

I do hope its just a blip, we are going through and there is nothing to worry about, but the last 15 years or so, have taught us to be cautious, with rejoicing.

It is easy to see, why folk disagree on points sometimes both sides take some comments too literally or criticisms ( I prefer to call them observations of discussion) too pointed.

We all love the club, so maybe we should all factor that in with our responses.....

Ps My wife is a season ticket holder, who sits next to me, we don't agree on everything in the game, but many things we do, because we have the opportunity to point out our thinking.....its inevitable we will all disagree on occasions, the trick is, to accept that as normal.

 

You make out that those moaning are the only ones that want to improve. Which is a really odd take, as though those satisfied with the job Dean has done aren't interested in things getting better. 

Maybe some of us just trust the long term plan and enjoy the ride, without having to critique the manager and act like he's holding us back. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by DCJonah

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

The funny thing is that Dean Smith in his personality is a million miles distant from Mourinho. None of the preening arrogance and quick temper.

I don't know if he ever gets to read these pages but if he does he must be amused if not a little horrified at the way some posters patrol the thread seeking immediately to close down any attempt to raise questions about the efficacy of any of his decisions.

But the same as some posters looking to have a go at him for any reason.  He must think what has he done for some to have issues with him so regularly over his tenure as our manager both in good times and bad.

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

Nothing in my post that moaned about not finishing top 6.

This is a discussion forum.  As such we should be discussing the negatives (hopefully "opportunities for improvement") as much as the positives??  This would be a pretty boring site if every one just came on and praised everything, especially given the the terrible run of form that we are currently experiencing.

And no-one is focusing on the odd errors that Jack or Emi have made because they are just that - "odd errors".  I, and some others, feel that Smith is currently, and has before, consistently making the same error, hence the discussion.

I agree, this would be be boring if it was only the same positive posts. And like I said, many people make valid points. 

The only posts that really get jumped on are the ridiculous negative ones, or ones with delusional expectations. Or the one guy who wanted Smith sacked 2 months into the job. But a few of those people have convinced themselves they're just posting valid criticism. 

 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

You make out that those moaning are the ones that want to improve. Which is a really odd take, as though those satisfied with the job Dean has done aren't interested in things getting better. 

Maybe some of us just trust the long term plan and enjoy the ride, without having to critique the manager and act like he's holding us back. 

That’s the point, we still have issues as well which we comment on but we also see the progression.  It’s not a flick of a switch to greatness, it’s a journey with bumps in the road like we are currently hitting.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

That’s the point, we still have issues as well which we comment on but we also see the progression.  It’s not a flick of a switch to greatness, it’s a journey with bumps in the road like we are currently hitting.

Exactly. Anyone who didn't think there would be ups and downs when Smith arrived are kidding themselves. 

This is the life of a midtable premier league team. Which we haven't been really since MON left, yet that still doesn't seem good enough. 

You take the highs with the lows, especially when in every season he's either met or exceeded expectations. 

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You make out that those moaning are the only ones that want to improve. Which is a really odd take, as though those satisfied with the job Dean has done aren't interested in things getting better. 

Maybe some of us just trust the long term plan and enjoy the ride, without having to critique the manager and act like he's holding us back. 

I have never said that or tried to imply it....I am merely giving an alternative view to the one you harbour.

well, its not really odd, we are not mind readers......If you say, you are keen for us to improve, but choose to keep it to yourself ,how you would like Villa to do that, then I have to take it at face value.

some of us wear our hearts on our sleeve, some don't....you clearly seem to be saying you would rather not discuss shortfalls, with a view to improve, on here, thats fair enough.

Edited April 1, 2021 by TRO

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have never said that or tried to imply it....I am merely giving an alternative view to the one you harbour.

well, its not really odd, we are not mind readers......If you say, you are keen for us to improve, but choose to keep it to yourself ,how you would like Villa to do that, then I have to take it at face value.

some of us wear our hearts on our sleeve, some don't....you clearly seem to be saying you would rather not discuss shortfalls, with a view to improve, on here, thats fair enough.

So I have to come and criticise the manager or point out every tiny fault to show I want to improve or to show my heart on my sleeve. 

I'm keen to improve and guess what? That's all we've done since he took over. Massively. 

So until that stops, what's the problem? Pointing out every minor thing he may have got wrong isn't doing anything to improve it. 

Its a long term project. Show me how many other teams have improved as much as us in the same period of time? 

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So I have to come and criticise the manager or point out every tiny fault to show I want to improve or to show my heart on my sleeve. 

I'm keen to improve and guess what? That's all we've done since he took over. Massively. 

So until that stops, what's the problem? Pointing out every minor thing he may have got wrong isn't doing anything to improve it. 

Its a long term project. Show me how many other teams have improved as much as us in the same period of time? 

you deal with it your way, I have already said that.

Of course, we have improved, else we wouldn't be sitting at 10th in the Prem.....but right now, if you watch the game, there are things we need to improve on...its a forum, where we can discuss our opinions. There are still basic things to improve, despite the improvement you so rightly allude to.....personally, I like to talk about them, I might learn something from other posters....I just don't think giving the ball away at the rate we currently do is minor, if you think it is, fine....its your opinion.

I too, am not interested in calls to remove the manager, but I just ignore them.....most of it is built up frustration, by folk who still love the team as much as us....they just have a different way of expressing their frustration.

Edited April 1, 2021 by TRO

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

you deal with it your way, I have already said that.

Of course, we have improved, else we wouldn't be sitting at 10th in the Prem.....but right now, if you watch the game, there are things we need to improve on...its a forum, where we can discuss our opinions. There are still basic things to improve, despite the improvement you so rightly allude to.....personally, I like to talk about them, I might learn something from other posters....I just don't think giving the ball away at the rate we currently do is minor, if you think it is, fine....its your opinion.

I too, am not interested in calls to remove the manager, but I just ignore them.....most of it is built up frustration, by folk who still love the team as much as us....they just have a different way of expressing their frustration.

I find it odd you were never desperate to discuss all the ways we could improve when Steve Bruce was the manager. I think that's what stands out the most. 

We're improving year on year, more than we probably realistically could have expected and yet a few seem so obsessed with it. 

Pointing out where things could be better is never a real issue. I've got no issue with that. Unfortunately it seems to descend in just moaning and criticising the manager. 

I agree, our ball retention is an issue at the moment. We also seem to have stopped creating good chances on goal. But there's a difference between thinking we can improve in these areas and then blaming Smith or making out bringing on a sub when I want it would make all the difference, which is where it usually descends to on here.