Dean Smith

[Dave-R]

54 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I find it odd you were never desperate to discuss all the ways we could improve when Steve Bruce was the manager. I think that's what stands out the most. 

We're improving year on year, more than we probably realistically could have expected and yet a few seem so obsessed with it. 

Pointing out where things could be better is never a real issue. I've got no issue with that. Unfortunately it seems to descend in just moaning and criticising the manager. 

I agree, our ball retention is an issue at the moment. We also seem to have stopped creating good chances on goal. But there's a difference between thinking we can improve in these areas and then blaming Smith or making out bringing on a sub when I want it would make all the difference, which is where it usually descends to on here. 

I don't even think Newcastle fans can suggest to Bruce how they could improve, CabbageBall is a lost cause

Didn't think anyone was above being moaned at or being critised especially on VT .

No one knows what is the real issue to blame in regards to why we are not creating much opportunities when attacking except the Villa chiefs. One thing we will most likely notice is that once Jack is back we will start creating more again, so to me that does at least point us in the right direction of what is wrong which I'd say it's more so the players who are playing those positions are struggling to create. 

Let's say for example Jack was out for the rest of this season's and next, yes an example I'm trying to use here. Who could we actually rely on to bring us some creativity? The answer I feel would be our best bet is most likely stick Mcginn as an attacking midfielder. Also hope that Traore has a much better season than this season. Apart from that we will most likely send Barkley back to Chelsea. We should also sell Davis, Ghazi and Trezegeut as there's not once shred of creative play coming from those three for more than a few games a season if that. 

As much as I hate to say it we do have Jack but we do have to sign players that are equally as gifted in other ways as he is and start to be able to play without him. Thankfully we will have him for some time yet and we can use these windows to prepare for life with him, when that time arrives we must be of prepared or we will struggle. Our club has to start thinking beyond Grealish creativity and what is at the moment a frontline of one a man creative effort, whether we like it or not it's going to cost and it may as well be sooner than later. Westham loaned Lingard off of UTD and when you look at how he's playing for them, then imagine how he'd be on the left flank for us, again we have to think and plan now for life after Grealish, the sooner the better, despite we have him here still. Someone also mention Saint Maximin in the transfers, and it's easy to have your mouth drool at Lingard one side and Saint on the other flank. A frontline of Lingard, Watkins and Saint Maxamin and you have a very threatening front three right there and all of a sudden creativity oozing in your team has been put into the squads frontline three and goals should start flowing.

We just have to make the right moves and I believe we have to buy some decent players and spend some decent money there as much as we do in a creative attacking midfielder. We get two Wingers and an attacking midfielder signed and we can certainly start to feel a change in our team. We should certainly blow the whole load on those three spots bringing some exceptional players in who can rip up defences quickly.

I hope we get a massive kitty and yes no one knows what we will get. If our Owners want to see a much improved improvement on this season, they have to be smart enough to see where this is going to go. They will have to obviously throw Lange and Smith an impressive sized cheque because it's time to start trying for Europe next season and quantity won't cut it only quality will and quality will cost especially with what we need now. Creativity on our frontal positions and we could easy be spending over 150 million on as little as three players. I think it's where were heading now, if we bring more of the same as we have done last season and even this despite having an impressive bunch of signings, we will struggle next. We have had a few who have yet to really light up like Traore and Sanson. I think it's safe to say that out of this season's signings up front is that Watkins has been the only one who has really consistently shown creativity and impressiveness. 33 million is what we paid max for Watkins right?? You look at him and then look at what we paid for Traore and Sanson and you can clearly see how much were needing to now spend to get almost guaranteed consistent performances with experience that shows game in game out. 30 to 50 or even 60 million I think is the price we will be paying for players in the summer. If we end up paying upto 30-60 million for a player and it does come with that type of player that brings such a spark, invaluable drive to go win games that, the type of player that opens up defences with ease then to me I'll be glad our Owner have splashed out.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Dave-R

[GingerCollins29]

2 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

I'd like you to prove where someone has not wished we finish as high as possible, please? As you stated in your original post. 

There's one thing accepting we may slip down the table due to our clear and significant squad deficiencies, it's another thing accepting it and not wishing we finish as high as possible. I don't think anybody has said that they don't want us to finish as high as possible, but if you can find it then pleased help me out.

Plenty of posters have stated they'd prefer not to finish in european places as they don't believe we are ready and it would be detrimental to our performance in the league

[GingerCollins29]

2 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

I'd like you to prove where someone has not wished we finish as high as possible, please? As you stated in your original post. 

There's one thing accepting we may slip down the table due to our clear and significant squad deficiencies, it's another thing accepting it and not wishing we finish as high as possible. I don't think anybody has said that they don't want us to finish as high as possible, but if you can find it then pleased help me out.

Actually, dont think my post stated that posters on here said that. I simply said it would be bizarre if you didnt want to finish as high as possible. Some have said they think finishong in europe would be bad this year as we wouldnt have the squad to cope. I disagree, even though i respect their argument.

[barry'sboots]

17 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I find it odd you were never desperate to discuss all the ways we could improve when Steve Bruce was the manager. I think that's what stands out the most. 

We're improving year on year, more than we probably realistically could have expected and yet a few seem so obsessed with it. 

Pointing out where things could be better is never a real issue. I've got no issue with that. Unfortunately it seems to descend in just moaning and criticising the manager. 

I agree, our ball retention is an issue at the moment. We also seem to have stopped creating good chances on goal. But there's a difference between thinking we can improve in these areas and then blaming Smith or making out bringing on a sub when I want it would make all the difference, which is where it usually descends to on here. 

I think TRO is probably one of the least critical people on here and has always recognised the obvious improvement.

Lets not forget, we have spent £200m+ over the last few windows - before anyone starts I know we needed to because we had an ageing/poor squad - plus we have, for free, the best attacking player in the league (certainly British) so I am not sure it is all down to Smith!!  A bit like when we had O'Neill and we were finishing 6th consistently but were about the 6th highest spenders (transfers + wages).  Whilst the Liverpool and Arsenal performances were sensational, there have been a large number of, frankly, directionless performances that deserve introspection and analysis.

It does descend in to tactical discussions - welcome to the world of football forums!  And I personally think we are entitled to ask why Trez and AEG continue to start in a 4-3-3 despite offering nothing; why the midfield that looked so great in the first half of the season now looks so poor; why JPB hasn't had a shot; why Jack stayed out left when West Ham and Brighton set up to counter him and we didn't tweak it.  Just because Smith and his team are paid millions and get to see the guys training every day doesn't mean they automatically get everything right and that these aren't legitimate discussion points.

I think most on here want Smith to succeed - he seems like a genuinely nice bloke, the players love him and he is one of our own.  However, this doesn't give him a free pass when there are some things that are so obviously wrong.

I do wonder why you come on to this thread if it upsets you that much that people are questioning the managerial team/their strategy and decisions and wanting to discuss what might be a solution to turn round a really poor run of form?

[briny_ear]

19 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I find it odd you were never desperate to discuss all the ways we could improve when Steve Bruce was the manager. I think that's what stands out the most. 

We're improving year on year, more than we probably realistically could have expected and yet a few seem so obsessed with it. 

Pointing out where things could be better is never a real issue. I've got no issue with that. Unfortunately it seems to descend in just moaning and criticising the manager. 

I agree, our ball retention is an issue at the moment. We also seem to have stopped creating good chances on goal. But there's a difference between thinking we can improve in these areas and then blaming Smith or making out bringing on a sub when I want it would make all the difference, which is where it usually descends to on here. 

That bolded statement is in my recollection is just totally wrong, and easily disproved if anyone could be bothered to look up a few posts from the time. 

If that is the basis of your persistent criticism of TRO’s perfectly reasonable comments on Smith’s performance, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[blandy]

On 02/04/2021 at 14:50, barry'sboots said:

I think most on here want Smith to succeed - he seems like a genuinely nice bloke, the players love him and he is one of our own.  However, this doesn't give him a free pass when there are some things that are so obviously wrong.

I don't see things that are so obviously wrong that he can do anything about, tbh.

Ross Barkley being a bit crap? Players being exhausted? Not having much squad depth?

He's barely had (like all the managers) any time to do coaching with the rate the games have been coming. Building up the club and squad and team is a process, not an instant thing. I think it's ongoing, and as you say there are areas that need improving, but my view is I've seen huge improvements and I have no expectation of instant transformation from relegation candidates to Champions league challengers.

He took over a lower mid table championship side, got them promoted, kept them up and will finish higher again this season. There's an absolutely huge gap between the likes of Man City, and other regular Champions league sides and the rest of the Prem. This strange season has made that gap (temporarily) smaller for a number of reasons, but he's doing absolutely fine by me and I see no obvious flaws that he's failing to correct, or not working on.

Maybe I'm passive, but the way I look at it is I want football and Villa to be a source of enjoyment, so I don't concentrate on "we're not where we want to be yet", I can see players play poorly, or the team play poorly, and I just think "meh, maybe so and so will get a game next time" or "Yes, Tyrone is making a few unforced errors, I guess they'll be working on cutting that out" (and they did, seemingly). Over-analysing the negatives at the expense of balancing that with the positives we've seen, for me is a route to frustration and anger, not the enjoyment I want.

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

I think TRO is probably one of the least critical people on here and has always recognised the obvious improvement.

Lets not forget, we have spent £200m+ over the last few windows - before anyone starts I know we needed to because we had an ageing/poor squad - plus we have, for free, the best attacking player in the league (certainly British) so I am not sure it is all down to Smith!!  A bit like when we had O'Neill and we were finishing 6th consistently but were about the 6th highest spenders (transfers + wages).  Whilst the Liverpool and Arsenal performances were sensational, there have been a large number of, frankly, directionless performances that deserve introspection and analysis.

It does descend in to tactical discussions - welcome to the world of football forums!  And I personally think we are entitled to ask why Trez and AEG continue to start in a 4-3-3 despite offering nothing; why the midfield that looked so great in the first half of the season now looks so poor; why JPB hasn't had a shot; why Jack stayed out left when West Ham and Brighton set up to counter him and we didn't tweak it.  Just because Smith and his team are paid millions and get to see the guys training every day doesn't mean they automatically get everything right and that these aren't legitimate discussion points.

I think most on here want Smith to succeed - he seems like a genuinely nice bloke, the players love him and he is one of our own.  However, this doesn't give him a free pass when there are some things that are so obviously wrong.

I do wonder why you come on to this thread if it upsets you that much that people are questioning the managerial team/their strategy and decisions and wanting to discuss what might be a solution to turn round a really poor run of form?

I've never said you can't ask questions. Lots of posts that do that, I have no issue with. I keep repeating this but it is a minority of over reactions that get jumped on. 

If only your last paragraph were a true reflection of this thread during his time here. But it clearly isn't. 

Most of this thread this time last year was taken up with people demanding he was sacked. And yet people still pretend it's only ever people asking the odd question or talking tactics. 

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

That bolded statement is in my recollection is just totally wrong, and easily disproved if anyone could be bothered to look up a few posts from the time. 

If that is the basis of your persistent criticism of TRO’s perfectly reasonable comments on Smith’s performance, you are barking up the wrong tree.

The thing is Brin, you are right.....I did criticise Bruces cautious offerings and his style bored me, despite me being grateful for stopping the rot, when he arrived......it was just the abusive vitriol he had to endure, I was opposed to.

Problem is some folk, have their own agenda.

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't see things that are so obviously wrong that he can do anything about, tbh.

Ross Barkley being a bit crap? Players being exhausted? Not having much squad depth?

He's barely had (like al the managers) any time to do coaching with the rate the games have been coming. Building up the club and squad and team is a process, not an instant thing. I think it's ongoing, and as you say there are areas that need improving, but my view is I've seen huge improvements and I have no expectation of instant transformation from relegation candidates to Champions league challengers.

He took over a lower mid table championship side, got them promoted, kept them up and will finish higher again this season. There's an absolutely huge gap between the likes of Man City, and other regular Champions league sides and the rest of the Prem. This strange season has made that gap (temporarily) smaller for a number of reasons, but he's doing absolutely fine by me and I see no obvious flaws that he's failing to correct, or not working on.

Maybe I'm passive, but the way I look at it is I want football and Villa to be a source of enjoyment, so I don't concentrate on "we're not where we want to be yet", I can see players play poorly, or the team play poorly, and I just think "meh, maybe so and so will get a game next time" or "Yes, Tyrone is making a few unforced errors, I guess they'll be working on cutting that out" (and they did, seemingly). Over-analysing the negatives at the expense of balancing that with the positives we've seen, for me is a route to frustration and anger, not the enjoyment I want.

That last paragraph perfectly sums it up. The obsession with analysing every mistake is crazy IMO. And I'm convinced it's more to be able to have a moan and then justify it with this idea. 

[sharkyvilla]

4 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't see things that are so obviously wrong that he can do anything about, tbh.

Ross Barkley being a bit crap? Players being exhausted? Not having much squad depth?

He's barely had (like al the managers) any time to do coaching with the rate the games have been coming. Building up the club and squad and team is a process, not an instant thing. I think it's ongoing, and as you say there are areas that need improving, but my view is I've seen huge improvements and I have no expectation of instant transformation from relegation candidates to Champions league challengers.

He took over a lower mid table championship side, got them promoted, kept them up and will finish higher again this season. There's an absolutely huge gap between the likes of Man City, and other regular Champions league sides and the rest of the Prem. This strange season has made that gap (temporarily) smaller for a number of reasons, but he's doing absolutely fine by me and I see no obvious flaws that he's failing to correct, or not working on.

Maybe I'm passive, but the way I look at it is I want football and Villa to be a source of enjoyment, so I don't concentrate on "we're not where we want to be yet", I can see players play poorly, or the team play poorly, and I just think "meh, maybe so and so will get a game next time" or "Yes, Tyrone is making a few unforced errors, I guess they'll be working on cutting that out" (and they did, seemingly). Over-analysing the negatives at the expense of balancing that with the positives we've seen, for me is a route to frustration and anger, not the enjoyment I want.

Absolutely.  I see things the same way and get frustrated that others don't see it that way too.  To be fair a lot of those people I have on my ignore list and have done since before Dean took over anyway.

[DCJonah]

Best season in a decade. Sitting top half in the prem and the major gripe from a small group is that they can't criticise the manager without others getting defensive. 

If that doesn't sum up this thread at times nothing does. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Boy do we need a game. 

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Boy do we need a game. 

I just hope we win and all three subs are made at the exact right time. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

I don't see things that are so obviously wrong that he can do anything about, tbh.

Ross Barkley being a bit crap? Players being exhausted? Not having much squad depth?

He's barely had (like al the managers) any time to do coaching with the rate the games have been coming. Building up the club and squad and team is a process, not an instant thing. I think it's ongoing, and as you say there are areas that need improving, but my view is I've seen huge improvements and I have no expectation of instant transformation from relegation candidates to Champions league challengers.

He took over a lower mid table championship side, got them promoted, kept them up and will finish higher again this season. There's an absolutely huge gap between the likes of Man City, and other regular Champions league sides and the rest of the Prem. This strange season has made that gap (temporarily) smaller for a number of reasons, but he's doing absolutely fine by me and I see no obvious flaws that he's failing to correct, or not working on.

Maybe I'm passive, but the way I look at it is I want football and Villa to be a source of enjoyment, so I don't concentrate on "we're not where we want to be yet", I can see players play poorly, or the team play poorly, and I just think "meh, maybe so and so will get a game next time" or "Yes, Tyrone is making a few unforced errors, I guess they'll be working on cutting that out" (and they did, seemingly). Over-analysing the negatives at the expense of balancing that with the positives we've seen, for me is a route to frustration and anger, not the enjoyment I want.

I agree Pete, we have come a long way, and there is much to gain satisfaction with and I also understand it can get under the skin of some fans, by discussing our shortfalls......However, some fans like to discuss those points, without entering in to the world of being ungrateful, dissatisfied or overly frustrated.

I am over the moon, with our incremental progress, but I would be a liar, if I said, I was happy with how regular we give the ball away so easily and cheaply......is it a sin to discuss, this and share opinions why that might be.

I have not got a monopoly on what is right or wrong with Villa, so I am keen to read what other fans think, my single concern mentioned above is not something i Think can be labelled as  minor or nit picking, its a fundamental flaw, thats crept in more whilst we have been out of form....are we so prickly, that we can't discuss it......Even the majority of Villa Podcasts, who are very partisan indeed are having to address the so called negatives, due to fans writing on twitter to them.

I think there is a clear distinction from saying sack the manager, to lets discuss our difficulties in games.....but some folk are intent in lumping them all together, and when the ammunition is sparse, go back months and years, to quote a post......that to me is desperate.

Everyone has different views, its natural, some are slightly different, some are vastly different....but it should not be considered fair to declare open season on a poster, with a different narrative......I have seen posts on here, not directed at me, I might add, but using words of ridicule to address a poster they have the hump with....that is not cricket IMO.

We are all Villa Fans, withour own opinions, those opinions can be challenged with respectful dialogue....and if those challenges are deemed to be a stronger point/argument, its fine for us to change our mind or opinion, thats what debating is all about....dogma is pointless, in such circumstances, but is sadly found on here at times....when words of "put downs" are engaged or derogatory reponses to the poster, I just ignore the whole post.

There is one common denominator in all this.....we should all look for it a bit more, than we do.

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by TRO

[briny_ear]

58 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Best season in a decade. Sitting top half in the prem and the major gripe from a small group is that they can't criticise the manager without others getting defensive. 

If that doesn't sum up this thread at times nothing does. 

Persistent and boring interventions from a few who apparently can’t countenance any criticism of the manager are probably another feature of the current situation.

Edited April 2, 2021 by briny_ear

[TRO]

57 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Best season in a decade. Sitting top half in the prem and the major gripe from a small group is that they can't criticise the manager without others getting defensive. 

If that doesn't sum up this thread at times nothing does. 

Now state the obvious.....phew!!!

[blandy]

26 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would be a liar, if I said, I was happy with regular we give the ball away so easily

Like all teams we do that. Man City the least, then Liverpool and Chelsea down to West Brom, Burnley and Newcastle the most, with Villa mid table in terms of keeping possession.

Interestingly, we had our lowest possession in the 7-2 win v Liverpool (30% ish) and the highest 72% against Sheffield Utd at home. Normally (on average we're 50% or thereabouts, with the best sides being 60% and the worst just under 40%. West Ham are the anomaly, doing well, but with only 40% on average. 

I had to look all that up, obviously. And the reason I did is because there's (again) this thing with supporters (me included) of seeing a player, or players, or team "give the ball away" and getting overly frustrated. The best teams have the best players who are the best players because they are the most consistent and often also the most talented and best coached. I think where we are is a well coached side, that endeavours to play attractive football, but because of last season has also learnt how to defend much better.

Fulham and Leeds are good to watch, but they don't half let goals in, in part because they've been terrible at defending for much of the season. Burnley defend well, but don't keep the ball, so they have to.

I think where I'm going with this is that until or unless we improve the overall squad quality, we're all going to have games where sloppy play annoys us. But from my perspective, it's not a manager thing with Villa. We've all seen how the manager likes to play, which is an attacking games that does take risks with the ball at times, but tries to keep possession. Bruce, Dyche, Allardyce and Hodgson set up differently. Their player play systems and tactics that don't involve the same risk v reward gambles. They play a more turgid style, bluntly. Through necessity (Dyche) or pragmatism (Hodgson) or just ingrained methodology (Bruce and Allardyce).

The Dean Smith way is (for me) a better way and I accept that the human beings asked to play for him have bad games, make mistakes and all that. But they also are players who try to learn and improve and do better. I don't blame, at all, ball retention problems on the manager. I put it down to both opposition pressure and player ability/fatigue/confidence really. If I observe a player keep doing it, giving the ball away, I don't even blame the player. Sure it's his fault, but if they do as best they can, then that's enough for me. I'm not really into getting mad at players, or all this "sell him he's crap" stuff that you see after any bad performance. Judgements should be (IMO) over time, not a short rocky patch. So the most important thing from my perspective is "give people time" don't worry, then about steps in time, just at the end of a decent period, work out if they're the right person to continue - players, managers, whoever.

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Best season in a decade. Sitting top half in the prem and the major gripe from a small group is that they can't criticise the manager without others getting defensive. 

If that doesn't sum up this thread at times nothing does. 

Not had this spending power since the early years of MON either.

Looking at the fixture list it looks horrendous. Have to play Everton twice as well.

I think a top half finish is very unlikely. Messed up in the "winnable" games and it's catching up to us.

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Not had this spending power since the early years of MON either.

Looking at the fixture list it looks horrendous. Have to play Everton twice as well.

I think a top half finish is very unlikely. Messed up in the "winnable" games and it's catching up to us.

Oh no. What might happen.

[DCJonah]

26 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Persistent and boring interventions from a few who apparently can’t countenance any criticism of the manager are probably another feature of the current situation.

Defending the best manager we've had in years from over the top criticism. Yes, what a terrible fan I must be. 

Haha I genuinely can't work out why some of you are so desperate to have a moan. 

It was the same when MON was here. There was a section of fans who could enjoy being a team challenging for the top 4. If you can't enjoy years like this, given our recent history, and have to look for every little thing that's negative then I feel sorry for you guys. What enjoyment do you get from being a villa fan.