Dean Smith

[PaulC]

34 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

As we have said, without being cut down, Smith has his faults like any manager, but I certainly do not want him gone, like some were insinuating last night. For me though he needs to be much more reactive to problems, either changing the formation mid game or a earlier subs. We have seen games, even with Grealish playing, that something just ain't working, but still the sub happens in or around the 70th minute. Also that we have not won from a losing position should be a little worrying at this level.

Wouldn't change him for anyone. we are a work in progress. Hopefully next season we can push on a bit more 

[Mjvilla]

Watching West Ham was horrible tonight. They will probably finish higher than us this season. But doing what Moyes is doing and doing what Smith is doing, I see our ceiling as higher. We can go further than west ham if we continue to build the way we do. And play the style we do.

West ham parked the bus tonight, no doubt. They may have defended well, but they still lost. I'd always rather go down trying to win a game. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

31 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Watching West Ham was horrible tonight. They will probably finish higher than us this season. But doing what Moyes is doing and doing what Smith is doing, I see our ceiling as higher. We can go further than west ham if we continue to build the way we do. And play the style we do.

West ham parked the bus tonight, no doubt. They may have defended well, but they still lost. I'd always rather go down trying to win a game. 

 

This is exactly my point. Some of our fans are impressed with what Moyes has done the same way they were impressed with Wilder last season. Which is why I’m very interested to see where both teams will be next season. 

[Kingman]

9/2 Favourite to replace Boregate 

[villalad21]

8 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

Watching West Ham was horrible tonight. They will probably finish higher than us this season. But doing what Moyes is doing and doing what Smith is doing, I see our ceiling as higher. We can go further than west ham if we continue to build the way we do. And play the style we do.

West ham parked the bus tonight, no doubt. They may have defended well, but they still lost. I'd always rather go down trying to win a game. 

 

Man Utd is probably the best counter attacking team in Europe. Can perfectly understand why he did it.

Man Utd under OGS have traditionally struggled massively against low block teams.

Alternatively you can go gung ho like Leeds and concede 6

[PaddytheVillan]

I think we'd all have taken being safe from relegation in March - it's an incredible achievement all things considered. Also Dean has sorted the defence, we have a top class goalie, and a very strong back four with competent backups. 

A couple of obvious problems and areas to work on for me. Our threat going forward, especially without Grealish, is pretty much non existent. There have been flashes of brilliance from all of our attacking players but they have not gelled as a unit. We need a better backup winger option than Trezeguet - I like the guy and admire his work ethic but the ability just isn't there. 

The other one for me is that Smith has always had hot and cold patches of form. 10 back to back wins and the end of last season (plus the start of this one) are the good. But we've also had horrible patches of form like last season and in the Championship, and to a lesser extent our current form. 

I think we could be a consistent top 10 premier league team if Smith can fix the following: 

1) find a way to win without Grealish 

2) prevent the long, poor runs of form that have been present throughout his career 

3) have a better pool of backup players, particularly at striker and winger. 

[TRO]

13 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

As we have said, without being cut down, Smith has his faults like any manager, but I certainly do not want him gone, like some were insinuating last night. For me though he needs to be much more reactive to problems, either changing the formation mid game or a earlier subs. We have seen games, even with Grealish playing, that something just ain't working, but still the sub happens in or around the 70th minute. Also that we have not won from a losing position should be a little worrying at this level.

I think its a lack of variety in the playing staff.....too many the same or similar.

I don't see what he can really change, with any significance.

they are predominantly like for like changes for me.

I just hope, when we sign new players in the summer, there is a difference....as an example, none of the wingers have real pace,or great crossers, you would think, one at least would....none of the midfielders have any aerial prowess, you would think one would....the centre backs rarely attack the ball at corners for us, you would think one would.

we need some variety in our personnel, to help us.....we need some varying weapons in our armoury.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by TRO

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, PaddytheVillan said:

I think we'd all have taken being safe from relegation in March - it's an incredible achievement all things considered. Also Dean has sorted the defence, we have a top class goalie, and a very strong back four with competent backups. 

A couple of obvious problems and areas to work on for me. Our threat going forward, especially without Grealish, is pretty much non existent. There have been flashes of brilliance from all of our attacking players but they have not gelled as a unit. We need a better backup winger option than Trezeguet - I like the guy and admire his work ethic but the ability just isn't there. 

The other one for me is that Smith has always had hot and cold patches of form. 10 back to back wins and the end of last season (plus the start of this one) are the good. But we've also had horrible patches of form like last season and in the Championship, and to a lesser extent our current form. 

I think we could be a consistent top 10 premier league team if Smith can fix the following: 

1) find a way to win without Grealish 

2) prevent the long, poor runs of form that have been present throughout his career 

3) have a better pool of backup players, particularly at striker and winger. 

Good point made about the periods of good and poor form. It's very noticeable and I find Dean struggles to get us out of periods of bad form both in terms of results and performances.

 

Definitely needs to find a way to win without Grealish, even if it means winning ugly for a few games. But another midfield playmaker signed in summer could help a great deal with that, Barkley was supposed to be that guy but unfortunately he looks to be becoming a failed signing.

 

The only thing I disagree with is on the backup players - I personally think every signing we make should be with a view to improving the first team. If we sign a LB, for instance, I want them to either have the ability to challenge Targett for a first team place (as good as he has been this season) or have the potential to be better than him. Similarly if a striker like Tammy was to become available this summer I wouldn't want us to turn it down just because we have Watkins.

 

I also want to see Smith utilise the squad more next season and if we can say rotate the full backs or the CMs with very little if any drop off in quality we'll become a much better side. If the likes of Luiz, McGinn and Traore were no longer guaranteed to start next season and we were able to bring players like that off the bench will show a big improvement next season.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

This is exactly my point. Some of our fans are impressed with what Moyes has done the same way they were impressed with Wilder last season. Which is why I’m very interested to see where both teams will be next season. 

I disagree in part and agree in part.

without our defence and particular the goal keeper, we would not be presiding over the league position we are...that i am quite sure about that.

defending is not taboo, its having respect for the opposition and being wise enough to understand that the team you are facing is better than you.....its folly to go gung-ho against the 2 Manchester clubs, it requires caution and possibly a counter attacking strategy.

Moyes, like our own Dean has done a tremendous job, both were languishing around the bottom of league last season, both recruited well and both have sought solace in defensive activities.

The game is about entertainment, but its also about points too and if you can't score, you can't concede.....it might sound obvious, but we need to remind ourselves, of that.

Any discerning fan of the game, would have to be impressed with what Wilder presided over last season, this season has gone away from him, for some reason, but you cannot take last season away from him.....May i also remind you, that even though they may well go down, they made us look very ordinary in both games and reducing us to scoring a single goal in the 2 games, despite our advantage in the transfer market and us having better players on paper.

we all want swashbuckling football, but you have to have the players to do it, and WIN the right to impose it, ours are inconsistent and without Jack lack the inspiration to attack, with any kind of Verve....we have a few too many who lack the belief and the ball control to take the game to opponents.....we are currently very much relying on our players who keep the ball out of our net....don't knock it.

Edited March 15, 2021 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

I disagree in part and agree in part.

without our defence and particular the goal keeper, we would not be presiding over the league position we are...that i am quite sure about that.

defending is not taboo, its having respect for the opposition and being wise enough to understand that the team you are facing is better than you.....its folly to go gung-ho against the 2 Manchester clubs, it requires caution and possibly a counter attacking strategy.

Moyes, like our own Dean has done a tremendous job, both were languishing around the bottom of league last season, both recruited well and both have sought solace in defensive activities.

The game is about entertainment, but its also about points too and if you can't score, you can't concede.....it might sound obvious, but we need to remind ourselves, of that.

Any discerning fan of the game, would have to be impressed with what Wilder presided over last season, this season has gone away from him, for some reason, but you cannot take last season away from him.....May i also remind you, that even though they may well go down, they made us look very ordinary in both games and reducing us to scoring a single goal in the 2 games, despite our advantage in the transfer market and us having better players on paper.

we all want swashbuckling football, but you have to have the players to do it, and WIN the right to impose it, ours are inconsistent and without Jack lack the inspiration to attack, with any kind of Verve....we have a few too many who lack the belief and the ball control to take the game to opponents.....we are currently very much relying on our players who keep the ball out of our net....don't knock it.

West Ham massively under achieved last season.  They were tipped to challenge top 6 at the start of that season such was the squad they had but for whatever reason they struggled.  I admit they signed well in the Czech Republic players but they already had a very strong squad that had been put together over several premier league years. All it needed was a few additions.
 

In contrast to this Smith got promoted with 2 players he deemed first team starters. He’s had to build a squad (not just a team) a squad to try and compete in this league.   I see the weaknesses in our team, we all do. But to expect them all to be sorted in 2 summer transfer windows such was the six of the rebuild required is both unrealistic and unfair. 
 

We have to be patience TRO.  If next season we still see these same weaknesses then I’ll be the first to agree with you and admit it should have been sorted it by now. 

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

West Ham massively under achieved last season.  They were tipped to challenge top 6 at the start of that season such was the squad they had but for whatever reason they struggled.  I admit they signed well in the Czech Republic players but they already had a very strong squad that had been put together over several premier league years. All it needed was a few additions.
 

In contrast to this Smith got promoted with 2 players he deemed first team starters. He’s had to build a squad (not just a team) a squad to try and compete in this league.   I see the weaknesses in our team, we all do. But to expect them all to be sorted in 2 summer transfer windows such was the six of the rebuild required is both unrealistic and unfair. 
 

We have to be patience TRO.  If next season we still see these same weaknesses then I’ll be the first to agree with you and admit it should have been sorted it by now. 

Yes, I agree, it takes time.....but your point about West Ham is very dismissive of the amount of poor signings they have made in the past, only recently have they improved in recruitment like us....I don't pick out their faults, because, I don't care about them, they can continue for all i care.

I pinpoint our weaknesses where as you and few others seem to baulk at mentioning them....it comes across as prickly and we can't discuss our shortfalls, with a view to improving....talking about what we can do better, is not a prelude to getting rid of Smith, and it seems that is what some seem to deduce.

Of course it takes time to get it right, but we also need to get the right players to get it right.....its not a given.

it was interesting how all the Villa podcasts, were at least engaged in dialogue of why we have gone off the boil....its much better to engage in waxing lyrical over us.....but reality, must prevail.....no matter how distasteful it is.

Ps i have one mate, who just refuses to talk about Villa, when we play badly, when we play well, I can't shut him up......thats juvenile to me.

Edited March 15, 2021 by TRO

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, PaddytheVillan said:

I think we'd all have taken being safe from relegation in March - it's an incredible achievement all things considered. Also Dean has sorted the defence, we have a top class goalie, and a very strong back four with competent backups. 

A couple of obvious problems and areas to work on for me. Our threat going forward, especially without Grealish, is pretty much non existent. There have been flashes of brilliance from all of our attacking players but they have not gelled as a unit. We need a better backup winger option than Trezeguet - I like the guy and admire his work ethic but the ability just isn't there. 

The other one for me is that Smith has always had hot and cold patches of form. 10 back to back wins and the end of last season (plus the start of this one) are the good. But we've also had horrible patches of form like last season and in the Championship, and to a lesser extent our current form. 

I think we could be a consistent top 10 premier league team if Smith can fix the following: 

1) find a way to win without Grealish 

2) prevent the long, poor runs of form that have been present throughout his career 

3) have a better pool of backup players, particularly at striker and winger. 

I think all fair points but I think some people and me included sometimes forget that Smith is still learning in the Premier League. He has managed the 3rd lowest amount of games from current managers if you dont include Sheffield United guy as I think he is a caretaker. He wont reach 100 top flight games until 2022

We have seen progress every season and I think it will continue

[lexicon]

Just now, Zatman said:

I think all fair points but I think some people and me included sometimes forget that Smith is still learning in the Premier League. He has managed the 3rd lowest amount of games from current managers if you dont include Sheffield United guy as I think he is a caretaker. He wont reach 100 top flight games until 2022

We have seen progress every season and I think it will continue

Which is Dean's best quality, I think - he's always desperate to learn and improve. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think all fair points but I think some people and me included sometimes forget that Smith is still learning in the Premier League. He has managed the 3rd lowest amount of games from current managers if you dont include Sheffield United guy as I think he is a caretaker. He wont reach 100 top flight games until 2022

We have seen progress every season and I think it will continue

Does that mean we have to wait until 2022 to exercise any constructive criticism?

Pep is still learning too.....we never stop learning.

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Does that mean we have to wait until 2022 to exercise any constructive criticism?

Pep is still learning too.....we never stop learning.

No, it just means that criticism and expectations should be reasonable and take into account the context of the situation. Y'know, common sense. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, lexicon said:

No, it just means that criticism and expectations should be reasonable and take into account the context of the situation. Y'know, common sense. 

I think in the main that is considered.

but in every critical observation, do we have to include a caveat as such, to stay on side.

a critical point is not a lead up to say the manager is no good.....I don't know why some folk seem to think it is.

[Zatman]

 

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Does that mean we have to wait until 2022 to exercise any constructive criticism?

Pep is still learning too.....we never stop learning.

I didnt say that at all yet Pep has a 10 year advantage on him. 

Criticism can be made but some people making petty criticism dilutes the point like about his subs or my favourite that we have somehow regressed this season

[Vive_La_Villa]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yes, I agree, it takes time.....but your point about West Ham is very dismissive of the amount of poor signings they have made in the past, only recently have they improved in recruitment like us....I don't pick out their faults, because, I don't care about them, they can continue for all i care.

I pinpoint our weaknesses where as you and few others seem to baulk at mentioning them....it comes across as prickly and we can't discuss our shortfalls, with a view to improving....talking about what we can do better, is not a prelude to getting rid of Smith, and it seems that is what some seem to deduce.

Of course it takes time to get it right, but we also need to get the right players to get it right.....its not a given.

it was interesting how all the Villa podcasts, were at least engaged in dialogue of why we have gone off the boil....its much better to engage in waxing lyrical over us.....but reality, must prevail.....no matter how distasteful it is.

Ps i have one mate, who just refuses to talk about Villa, when we play badly, when we play well, I can't shut him up......thats juvenile to me.

I’m happy for us to discuss the issues and the weaknesses. I just think the comparisons to West Ham and Moyes are unfair.  If their recruitment was so bad how is it the starting lineup only contains 2 of Moyes signings which were both in the summer? (One wasn’t Souchek). They’ve had several Seasons to try and get it right. Smith has had 1 and a half.   
 

 

[MrBlack]

I think the concerns around squad rotation and use of subs,  that were heavily posted about earlier in the season, may be coming to roost. Grealish's shin injury,  Watkins looking half the player he was, the central midfield lacking the energy we had. I accept it is entirely possible these would have come to fruition whether he'd rotated the squad earlier in the season or not,  but it does feel to me like this was inevitable.

In hindsight, I'm glad Dean has taken the path he has, even if I criticised his use of subs at the time. 

It's  equally possible we'd have fewer points on the board now had he rotated more, earlier in the season.   I wouldn't trade the points we have now for an optimistic hope that team morale wouldn't be hindered as a result, as well as a theory that our fitness might be better. Too many uncertainties, as demonstrated perfectly by our covid break. 

I think there is a ceiling this squad can achieve, and I'm not sure there is anyone out there who could achieve much more with the team we have.

What we're seeing, in my view,  is the limitations of our squad, given the depth (or lack of) that we have. If we continue the poor run,  picking up the odd win here and there, we still end the season on over 50 points. This is a huge improvement with a very young squad.

If Jack comes back soon, and hits the ground firing we could well make a late push for Europe, but it isn't reasonable to expect that from him on his own. 

Either of those scenarios is a good season. 

2 or 3 quality signings this summer,  holding on to the players we have, and expectations next season should have Europe in our sights. Its a real test of continued progression.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think in the main that is considered.

but in every critical observation, do we have to include a caveat as such, to stay on side.

a critical point is not a lead up to say the manager is no good.....I don't know why some folk seem to think it is.

But it’s the same critical observation every single game we lose when he can’t do anything about it until the summer!