Dean Smith

[sparrow1988]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

So why was we playing better, earlier in the season....thats a cop out.

I'm going to go with, we had a two week enforced closure of the training ground where some of the players were infected with a virus of which no one seems to have any idea of what the long term effects are. During these two weeks, all the other players in the league could train as normal, getting fitter, stronger, working on technical aspects etc. Our players (the ones who hadn't contracted the virus) on the other hand could at best do a few drills in their back garden. So while the other teams were improving their fitness, skills, patterns of play etc. ours were at best holding their own and others couldn't train at all. We were then required to play a ridiculous amount of matches in a very compressed time frame where recovery time between matches was essentially non-existent.

In summary, the players are f****d.

[DCJonah]

23 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

I'm going to go with, we had a two week enforced closure of the training ground where some of the players were infected with a virus of which no one seems to have any idea of what the long term effects are. During these two weeks, all the other players in the league could train as normal, getting fitter, stronger, working on technical aspects etc. Our players (the ones who hadn't contracted the virus) on the other hand could at best do a few drills in their back garden. So while the other teams were improving their fitness, skills, patterns of play etc. ours were at best holding their own and others couldn't train at all. We were then required to play a ridiculous amount of matches in a very compressed time frame where recovery time between matches was essentially non-existent.

In summary, the players are f****d.

Not sure how this gets ignored or dismissed. From the sounds of it, we had the worst covid breakout in the league. 

[barry'sboots]

21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

From the sounds of it, we had the worst covid breakout in the league. 

I thought Newcastle's outbreak was at least as bad, if not worst in terms of impact/effect - it took a couple of their players (St Maximin and Lascelles from memory) months to return to the first XI.

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, barry'sboots said:

I thought Newcastle's outbreak was at least as bad, if not worst in terms of impact/effect - it took a couple of their players (St Maximin and Lascelles from memory) months to return to the first XI.

Whereas we just threw ours back in.

Did Newcastle stop training for two weeks? I can't remember.

[barry'sboots]

2 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

Did Newcastle stop training for two weeks? I can't remember.

I think they did and had to re-arrange games.

COVID may well have a longer term impact.  Half a per cent in the PL can have a massive effect.  I look back at Stan Petrov.  I was so excited when he came down - my dad was a big Celtic fan - and went to his first game at West Ham where he was excellent.  But he seemed to run out of steam quickly with us and was not the all action midfielder that Celtic had.  He was always the first to have a shirt covered in sweat and was not particularly mobile.  I do wonder when the cancer might have first started to have an impact (I'm not an oncologist so might be talking out of my backside) but if it just knocks you back 1% in energy/performance terms in a league where you have to be at 100% then it would show.

 

[KentVillan]

Just on the Covid thing btw, you don't need to get it badly to struggle with after effects. I had it fairly mild (confirmed test +ve, about 10 days of mild symptoms), but then it took me 3 months to get back to normal fitness for anything cardio.

I know these lads are a lot fitter, but still, competitive sport is about peak performance. If you were at 100% cardio fitness and your game is based around that, and then you drop down to 95% fitness, you can still compete, but a core aspect of your game has been affected. Without speculating on specific players, you can imagine this is particularly tough on, say, an energetic box-to-box midfielder.

On top of that, it kicks in pretty randomly. It's not like you constantly feel drained, but every so often you suddenly feel tight / dizzy. They might be fine all week in training when they're playing within themselves, and then suddenly get hit by it on match day.

I know there's some on here who will say "excuses, excuses" but come on, it's a pretty solid excuse isn't it? Form team in the league has a huge Covid outbreak, and form suddenly drops off a cliff with key players (who'd previously been playing well) looking out of shape...

Or you can pin it on Dean Smith suddenly being "found out" by other teams (oh yeah because our variations on 4-3-3 were such a tactical mindf**k to begin with, it's taken them 2 seasons to outwit him) or our players lacking character or physicality or whatever other thing you think. But none of it really explains why we were steamrollering teams earlier in the season with the exact same players.

[Zatman]

Newcastle have also only won 3 games since the 19 games since the COVID outbreak, they won 4 in the 10 games before then. Regardless of Bruce tactics and whatever it does have an effect on the players

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

Just on the Covid thing btw, you don't need to get it badly to struggle with after effects. I had it fairly mild (confirmed test +ve, about 10 days of mild symptoms), but then it took me 3 months to get back to normal fitness for anything cardio.

I know these lads are a lot fitter, but still, competitive sport is about peak performance. If you were at 100% cardio fitness and your game is based around that, and then you drop down to 95% fitness, you can still compete, but a core aspect of your game has been affected. Without speculating on specific players, you can imagine this is particularly tough on, say, an energetic box-to-box midfielder.

On top of that, it kicks in pretty randomly. It's not like you constantly feel drained, but every so often you suddenly feel tight / dizzy. They might be fine all week in training when they're playing within themselves, and then suddenly get hit by it on match day.

I know there's some on here who will say "excuses, excuses" but come on, it's a pretty solid excuse isn't it? Form team in the league has a huge Covid outbreak, and form suddenly drops off a cliff with key players (who'd previously been playing well) looking out of shape...

Or you can pin it on Dean Smith suddenly being "found out" by other teams (oh yeah because our variations on 4-3-3 were such a tactical mindf**k to begin with, it's taken them 2 seasons to outwit him) or our players lacking character or physicality or whatever other thing you think. But none of it really explains why we were steamrollering teams earlier in the season with the exact same players.

Excuses, excuses.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I was talking about you saying our midfielders are two similar and we need a different one. You’ve said it a few times and I’m just saying we heard you but there’s nothing Smith can do about that until the summer.

Anyway sorry if I’ve offended you. Good night.

You haven't offended me, in the slightest.

Smith might do nothing about it....he might night agree with me, which is fair enough.

PS did you see the performance of Scott McTominay v West Ham?.....now that's a good CDM.

[Mic09]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

Just on the Covid thing btw, you don't need to get it badly to struggle with after effects. I had it fairly mild (confirmed test +ve, about 10 days of mild symptoms), but then it took me 3 months to get back to normal fitness for anything cardio.

I know these lads are a lot fitter, but still, competitive sport is about peak performance. If you were at 100% cardio fitness and your game is based around that, and then you drop down to 95% fitness, you can still compete, but a core aspect of your game has been affected. Without speculating on specific players, you can imagine this is particularly tough on, say, an energetic box-to-box midfielder.

On top of that, it kicks in pretty randomly. It's not like you constantly feel drained, but every so often you suddenly feel tight / dizzy. They might be fine all week in training when they're playing within themselves, and then suddenly get hit by it on match day.

I know there's some on here who will say "excuses, excuses" but come on, it's a pretty solid excuse isn't it? Form team in the league has a huge Covid outbreak, and form suddenly drops off a cliff with key players (who'd previously been playing well) looking out of shape...

Or you can pin it on Dean Smith suddenly being "found out" by other teams (oh yeah because our variations on 4-3-3 were such a tactical mindf**k to begin with, it's taken them 2 seasons to outwit him) or our players lacking character or physicality or whatever other thing you think. But none of it really explains why we were steamrollering teams earlier in the season with the exact same players.

You could be right, it's possible.

Personally, I don't attribute McGinns horrendous passes or Konsas misses to the virus.

We have just hit a bad spell. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

Just on the Covid thing btw, you don't need to get it badly to struggle with after effects. I had it fairly mild (confirmed test +ve, about 10 days of mild symptoms), but then it took me 3 months to get back to normal fitness for anything cardio.

I know these lads are a lot fitter, but still, competitive sport is about peak performance. If you were at 100% cardio fitness and your game is based around that, and then you drop down to 95% fitness, you can still compete, but a core aspect of your game has been affected. Without speculating on specific players, you can imagine this is particularly tough on, say, an energetic box-to-box midfielder.

On top of that, it kicks in pretty randomly. It's not like you constantly feel drained, but every so often you suddenly feel tight / dizzy. They might be fine all week in training when they're playing within themselves, and then suddenly get hit by it on match day.

I know there's some on here who will say "excuses, excuses" but come on, it's a pretty solid excuse isn't it? Form team in the league has a huge Covid outbreak, and form suddenly drops off a cliff with key players (who'd previously been playing well) looking out of shape...

Or you can pin it on Dean Smith suddenly being "found out" by other teams (oh yeah because our variations on 4-3-3 were such a tactical mindf**k to begin with, it's taken them 2 seasons to outwit him) or our players lacking character or physicality or whatever other thing you think. But none of it really explains why we were steamrollering teams earlier in the season with the exact same players.

It is a legitimate call, but its still speculation, just like the counter arguments are....it shouldn't really stop them from passing the ball well, instead of giving it away, like they do.

Look, if covid is an issue, its a pretty significant one...I'll give you that.

maybe the highlighted bit could be a problem...

Edited March 16, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

6 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

I'm going to go with, we had a two week enforced closure of the training ground where some of the players were infected with a virus of which no one seems to have any idea of what the long term effects are. During these two weeks, all the other players in the league could train as normal, getting fitter, stronger, working on technical aspects etc. Our players (the ones who hadn't contracted the virus) on the other hand could at best do a few drills in their back garden. So while the other teams were improving their fitness, skills, patterns of play etc. ours were at best holding their own and others couldn't train at all. We were then required to play a ridiculous amount of matches in a very compressed time frame where recovery time between matches was essentially non-existent.

In summary, the players are f****d.

Has Dean confimed that or is it just conjecture.

How many players was infected?

[KentVillan]

You can't separate physical fitness from every other aspect of the game. If a player is used to having more space because he's usually outrunning his marker, any decline in fitness will give him less time and space.

I think McGinn's drop in fitness exposed some of his technical shortcomings (he's very left footed, he only turns one way, he doesn't shift the ball out of his feet well). When he's back at 100% he'll be one of our best players. That's just the type of player he is.

Anyway, it is speculation, yes. And yes it could just be a standard mid-season drop in form, but it's surely noteworthy that it coincided with an enforced break that our opponents didn't have?

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

You haven't offended me, in the slightest.

Smith might do nothing about it....he might night agree with me, which is fair enough.

PS did you see the performance of Scott McTominay v West Ham?.....now that's a good CDM.

Scott McTominay is definitely not what i would call a good CDM he is as far from United standard as you can get and wouldn’t get near a Chelsea, City, Liverpool squad 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Scott McTominay is definitely not what i would call a good CDM he is as far from United standard as you can get and wouldn’t get near a Chelsea, City, Liverpool squad 

well that assessment, doesn't surprise me....utter trash.

[sparrow1988]

7 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

You could be right, it's possible.

Personally, I don't attribute McGinns horrendous passes or Konsas misses to the virus.

We have just hit a bad spell. 

I think it is a bit of both. We have hit a bad spell. However I would attribute a portion of an horrendous pass to the virus. If your fitness is affected which regardless of having the virus or not, the two weeks of no training will affect your fitness negatively and therefore the player will not get to whatever position on the pitch as quickly as before leaving him less time to make the pass. Arriving half a second later will let your opponent get a couple of meters closer than he normally would leading to a rushed pass under pressure which can affect the quality of the pass.

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

well that assessment, doesn't surprise me....utter trash.

Glad you agree that McTominay is utter trash. Whelan on his day was a better player or Jedinak 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

Glad you agree that McTominay is utter trash. Whelan on his day was a better player or Jedinak 

Thanks for the wind up....you need spec savers badly.

[Zatman]

Just now, TRO said:

Thanks for the wind up....you need spec savers badly.

Nope i know he is s shit. Looked like a competition winner the other night vs Frank Kessie 

[sparrow1988]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

Has Dean confimed that or is it just conjecture.

How many players was infected?

It is conjecture. As are all the opinions expressed on this forum.

However there are elements of it which are true. Some of our players had COVID. I heard reports of 10 - who had it, I don't know. However, the WHOLE squad did not train for two weeks apart from whatever that they could do at home. The standard of this training would in no way been the same standard as training at Bodymoor. I know some footballers have big gardens but kicking the ball around the back garden is not the same as rigorous repetitive training drills competing with other individuals.

If you think a two week break from training (not considering potentially being infected with covid), while all other teams trained as normal has had no effect on the players then I don't know what to say.