Dean Smith

[nick76]

32 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

As I have seen the last few games, Smith has not really changed the formation to suit without Jack. All day long we should have started to play making Watkins the focal point to get us the goals. We are not playing this way. I think Watkins is getting a bit frustrated with this too, which is why he had a bit of a stinker against Newcastle. Also playing Ramsey instead of Sanson, I have no idea why he would do this, just proved to me it's much too early, as he has no real impact on a game.

I agree Watkins should've been the focus without Jack.  I just dont think we have the players to do that though. 

El Ghazi and Trez are just direct players.  They get the ball and run to the goal.  They arent creators, they arent creative wing men, they are solo players who get the ball and just attack on their own virtually.  Not sure you can ever change players who are wired like that to suddenly be team players where they create mainly for others like Ollie

Traore, I still havent figured out what he is.  He has skills without doubt.  He slows down the play too often for me though.  Is he a creator of goals for others?  Not sure I can answer that.  He can score we know that.  Is he going to create chances for Ollie on a regular basis....I think I'm towards no at the moment.

Barkley was supposed to be our CAM to do some of the things we are talking about but he's just gone so off the boil. The other midfielders arent creators really.

So we are reliant on Jack but that beats the question.

For me Ollie is second best creator behind Jack other than our fullbacks which again defeats the point you are making for Ollie being the focal point.

We have missed Cash definitely who can create.  I think Targett misses his creative streak when Jack doesnt play, I think he needs Jack to be able to do what Targett does down that wing when he gets space or 1-2 football with Jack before he crosses in.

 

Amazingly I dont think we have the players to get the best out of our striker at the moment.....Jack is injured, Barkley is off the boil and Traore still figuring out.

Edited March 14, 2021 by nick76

[TRO]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm happy that the best examples of us not being good with expensive signings are the bad expensive signings of other teams!

And i want it to stay that way.

[Philosopher]

I feel we certainly need to pass out of the back better. Our passing out of defense is very laboured at times. The movement is poor, and the passing is laboured the centre backs often take  three or four touches when you need 1 or 2 touches. This is why we struggle to keep the ball when teams press us high, as we end up having to resort to long balls to a 5'10 striker.

Mcginn is very wasteful with his passes. His short passing is poor, but his long passing is pretty decent. This leads me to believe he may be better as the holding midfielder as he is good in the tackle and tenacious as well. Then we can have him keep his short passes safety first, and his long passing to switch the play.

We play far too many long balls forward (as our passing out the back is poor) when we don't even have a proper target man starting and not one player over 5'10 in midfield. Out wide if you have El-Ghazi and Traore wide you can get them up against short fullbacks as they are both 6 foot. However they both have poor direction on their headers. 

It seems to me that we need a specialist coach to work on the short passing and movement. 

This for me is not poor form. It's that we have been found out. Press us high and we resort to long balls. If our 5'10 striker can't hold it up then the ball comes right back at us. So in essence we are prevented from ever getting going. This is a technical issue.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

I feel we certainly need to pass out of the back better. Our passing out of defense is very laboured at times. The movement is poor, and the passing is laboured the centre backs often take  three or four touches when you need 1 or 2 touches. This is why we struggle to keep the ball when teams press us high, as we end up having to resort to long balls to a 5'10 striker.

Mcginn is very wasteful with his passes. His short passing is poor, but his long passing is pretty decent. This leads me to believe he may be better as the holding midfielder as he is good in the tackle and tenacious as well. Then we can have him keep his short passes safety first, and his long passing to switch the play.

We play far too many long balls forward (as our passing out the back is poor) when we don't even have a proper target man starting and not one player over 5'10 in midfield. Out wide if you have El-Ghazi and Traore wide you can get them up against short fullbacks as they are both 6 foot. However they both have poor direction on their headers. 

It seems to me that we need a specialist coach to work on the short passing and movement. 

This for me is not poor form. It's that we have been found out. Press us high and we resort to long balls. If our 5'10 striker can't hold it up then the ball comes right back at us. So in essence we are prevented from ever getting going. This is a technical issue.

I am not sure its just poor form either, there are more factors involved than just that.....however, put together it could be packaged as poor form.

I am just watching the Man U v West ham game.....they have 3 players soucek, rice and McTominay all over 6 feet in the centre of their respective midfields the versatility of those players is impressive, all get attracted to the action, box to box....makes a big difference in terms of support and all 3 a threat in the air...to add to the dynamic.

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not sure its just poor form either, there are more factors involved than just that.....however, put together it could be packaged as poor form.

I am just watching the Man U v West ham game.....they have 3 players soucek, rice and McTominay all over 6 feet in the centre of their respective midfields the versatility of those players is impressive, all get attracted to the action, box to box....makes a big difference in terms of support and all 3 a threat in the air...to add to the dynamic.

Yet not mustered a single shot on target and now a goal down. At least we gave United a game. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

37 minutes ago, nick76 said:

we are in poor form at the moment but for half a season our football was some of the best in the league.  Yes we are struggling at the moment but that half season of play doesnt go away because of some poor form for half a dozen game.  IF it continues until the end of the season I may worry but I will also look how tired the players are.  Look at Ollie, he's knackered, no wonder he isnt the fresh face of early in the season...same with most of them.  I think it's harsh to compare our poor form at the moment to the MON era.  I think this is where you do have to look over the season and see the quality football we have played this season and hope this time is just too much for us with fatigue, a few players out and just our time for a bit of poor form.  If this is short term then great but if it was long term then we'd have a problem but it is seriously too early to think this is the style moving forward because we have proved before it isnt.

Cant argue with this at all.  I still think is just where we are at the moment as mentioned above and not a long term thing.  I guess this is just whether you think this is blip like me or whether this is who we truly are....I think that would be harsh to think that.

I think more investment in the summer will help because we are a small squad.

Dont disagree we arent what we were but slumps are 5/10 games.  Teams go through that time frame in a season with that plus we came out an issue where a lot of our squad had covid in mid january, we still dont know how that has affected them.  We know that slumps are more than a few games and more like double figures because that's how many Man City had at the start of the season, Liverpool have lost six at home on the trot and Chelsea had i believe a 17 games slump where they were top of the league before that.  Chelsea maybe the exception of Lampard v Slump, which may not be helping my argument but it was still a slump and Tuchel has fixed it.  I think we all agree Smith shouldnt be sacked and he has proved in the past of coming out of slumps, even to the point where he improves the team than it was before.

I agree but this summer maybe the first time we have been able to attract a higher calibre player.  Certainly why would they have been interested when we were in the Championship or just avoided relegation even if we threw money at them.  This summer is the first test for the owners and management how serious they are in challenging in the top six of the league.  We still might be very reliant on Jack just like Man U are on Fernandes who really struggle when he doesnt play,  Spurs struggle when Kane doesnt play, etc etc.  I agree though we need more from other players on the pitch in a creative sense.  Our defence is awesome now but attacking wise we need some real talent if we can get it to help take the focus off Jack.

It's a good point about Rodgers.  I think Smith does the same in the defence......Emi is brilliant but only we got him, Mings was a sub at Bournemouth but now under Smith is an England international......Konsa is knocking on England door, didnt see anybody else trying to buy him when we did and last season he has developed and now he's brilliant.  While these players are improving themselves, if Dean gets some criticism, he should also get praise out of getting their performance out of them as well like you mention Iheanacho and Rogers.  Dean also moved Grealish from CAM to LW which meant he had more space, involved in more danger areas, further upfield and so his goals and chances went up and he got the defence right.  Remember before 1st lockdown how poor defensively we were, yet Dean and his coaching staff learnt and made changes and since then they have been rock solid mostly.....that was impressive management from him and his team.

I'm defending Smith here and I know he has his faults, he's learning and he needs to continue to improve.  He makes mistakes i really agree but he seems to learn from them over time.  Fans are never all agree and we know that half the fans will disagree with any manager they have because that is the nature of football.  I probably over defend Smith on here compared to real life but I do feel on here he gets more stick than he deserves.  He should have some credit in the bank but that doesnt matter to some (not you).

Given our history and stature, and what we could be I want us to be more than Leicester because despite their success they are still a small club who are overachieving.  I want us to be a club that is meant to be there....we have the owners, we have the stature, we have the history and we have the fan base....we can be more than Leicester.  We are a long way from being a Leicester at the moment but my aim is to be more than them because we have the basis of bigger and better but that is going to take a few years if we are a little bit lucky and successful.

Good points made. I think it's even more frustrating the way we're playing now because there is such a drop off in performance from earlier on in the season. I know there are some on here who criticise Smith strongly, just like there are some who defend him to the hilt, but I like to think I make constructive comments even if you don't fully agree with them. He has proven over time he can change for the better, the work he did on the defence to keep us up being an example, but I also still think he has a lot to learn. For example, he has to learn how to adapt when we go 1-0 down because we haven't won a game all season when we've conceded first (and only taken 1 point overall). 

 

As I say, I would say calling for him to go is ridiculous but then Twitter does tend to generate that type of person. But pointing out where he can improve as a manager, so that we as a club can improve, is perfectly reasonable. We also need better players, of that I don't deny, and I'm sure we'll have a stronger squad next season to try to move forward again.

 

Ultimately we will both be very worried if this continues until the end of the season, but I'm with you: we should turn it around at some point surely. I'm just concerned that this is has been going on for 2 months now and I want to see the Villa from December back again. 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yet not mustered a single shot on target and now a goal down. At least we gave United a game. 

We did yes, thats when we was playing a bit better...but Man U have just beaten Man City....West Ham are defending well IMO.

did you see where MCTominay was when the corner came in....thats the advantage of stature, from midfielders.

Edited March 14, 2021 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, TRO said:

We did yes....but Man U have just beaten Man City....West Ham are defending well IMO.

did you see where MCTominay was when the corner came in....thats the advantage of stature, from midfielders.

Not watching to be honest  

You loved Sheffield United the same way last season....

[Philosopher]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I am not sure its just poor form either, there are more factors involved than just that.....however, put together it could be packaged as poor form.

I am just watching the Man U v West ham game.....they have 3 players soucek, rice and McTominay all over 6 feet in the centre of their respective midfields the versatility of those players is impressive, all get attracted to the action, box to box....makes a big difference in terms of support and all 3 a threat in the air...to add to the dynamic.

It depends on the football we want to play. If we want to play tiki-taki short passing with a midfield full of players comfortable under pressure and capable of carrying the ball then we are heading in the right direction in terms of personnel, however the coaching is quite up to scratch for me. 

However I do think Konsa isn't the best aerially and that we need another huge guy in the team for set pieces both defensively and offensively. If we signed Sander Barge I'd be very happy with that.

I feel that we'd be better off with Mcginn as the holder and Ramsey and Sanson if front of him. 

 

[PaulC]

Just now, TRO said:

We did yes....but Man U have just beaten Man City....West Ham are defending well IMO.

did you see where MCTominay was when the corner came in....thats the advantage of stature, from midfielders.

Firstly Daswon had a mental block by leaving the cross in the first place and then he headed it into his own goal.  

[Vive_La_Villa]

If lack of height is a serious problem in our team then I’m sure Smith will sort it out in the summer.   Maybe we should sign Dan Burn.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Not watching to be honest  

You loved Sheffield United the same way last season....

I comment on what teams do, I only nail my colours to one flag pole.

I thought Sheff Utd was impressive last season, yes.....and I am surprised they have ended up in the bottom 3.....I have no love for Sheff Utd or West Ham

not sure what point you are attempting to make, with that last line?

[PaulC]

Another thing with Moyes is unlike Smith, hes so negative against the big sides. At home against Liverpool they were there for the taking he parked the bus and lost 3-0. That negativity is the reason they wont finish in the top 4 when they have a really good chance this seaosn. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

It depends on the football we want to play. If we want to play tiki-taki short passing with a midfield full of players comfortable under pressure and capable of carrying the ball then we are heading in the right direction in terms of personnel, however the coaching is quite up to scratch for me. 

However I do think Konsa isn't the best aerially and that we need another huge guy in the team for set pieces both defensively and offensively. If we signed Sander Barge I'd be very happy with that.

I feel that we'd be better off with Mcginn as the holder and Ramsey and Sanson if front of him. 

 

Sander Berge is a unit, but don't know much about the rest of his game.

I don't see our personnel in the front 6  at present comfortable on the ball, with jack as an exception.

We give the ball way far too easily to claim that.

i agree with your point about set pieces, even our centre backs rarely get on the end of our corners...Laursen and Evans was always a threat.

Despite his drive, i don't think McGinn is a Holding midfielder or a CDM.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Another thing with Moyes is unlike Smith, hes so negative against the big sides. At home against Liverpool they were there for the taking he parked the bus and lost 3-0. That negativity is the reason they wont finish in the top 4 when they have a really good chance this seaosn. 

I think you have to respect the opposition sometimes.....Man U are the second best team in the country and West Ham are away from Home.....1-0 is no disgrace......just like our defeat was no disgrace to them either.

[PaulC]

Just now, TRO said:

I think you have to respect the opposition sometimes.....Man U are the second best team in the country and West Ham are away from Home.....1-0 is no disgrace......just like our defeat was no disgrace to them either.

It was a tired united team though who were playing their third game in 8 days.  United didnt show the same energy that they showed against Man City. So yes respect the opposition but have a go. Fortune favours the brave! 

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If lack of height is a serious problem in our team then I’m sure Smith will sort it out in the summer.   Maybe we should sign Dan Burn.

So we go from a serious point, to the extreme.

If you recall, Mings made a significant impact when he arrived and his staure was a notable improvement.

I would re phrase it as a weakness in certain positions.

[PaulC]

Just now, TRO said:

So we go from a serious point, to the extreme.

If you recall, Mings made a significant impact when he arrived and his staure was a notable improvement.

I would re phrase it as a weakness in certain positions.

I agree it is a weakness which Smith needs to address in the summer. 

[foreveryoung]

3 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I agree it is a weakness which Smith needs to address in the summer. 

As we have said, without being cut down, Smith has his faults like any manager, but I certainly do not want him gone, like some were insinuating last night. For me though he needs to be much more reactive to problems, either changing the formation mid game or a earlier subs. We have seen games, even with Grealish playing, that something just ain't working, but still the sub happens in or around the 70th minute. Also that we have not won from a losing position should be a little worrying at this level.

[Vive_La_Villa]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

I comment on what teams do, I only nail my colours to one flag pole.

I thought Sheff Utd was impressive last season, yes.....and I am surprised they have ended up in the bottom 3.....I have no love for Sheff Utd or West Ham

not sure what point you are attempting to make, with that last line?

Point is you need to have a bit of faith with Smith and what he is building. He can’t correct every problem over night.

You’ve made it clear where you think our issues lie and I respect that.  Let’s see if he sorts it in the summer, Let’s also see where both clubs are in a years time. I bet you we finish above West Ham next season.