Dean Smith

[villalad21]

47 minutes ago, useless said:

'We' have no way of making it sure it never happens again, our analyzing it makes no difference whatsoever, I'm sure those at the club will have done all the analyzing they need to do.

I'm also pretty sure that their main focus now is the Southampton game, and not dwelling on a game that's already lost, we need to take the positives from the season so far and them into that match, not let the Leeds game ruin our confidence.

It isn't about dwelling on a result.

This wasn't just a fluke result. We struggle against sides who press and don't give us time on the ball.

We tried pressing them from the front, leaving us far too open when we lost the ball. Too big gaps between the midfield and defence. It was suicide tactics.

We need to find a way to combat these type of teams. We need to play like Wolves in these types of games. Stay in a low block, keep the shape very tight, don't give them any space to counter and try hit them on the counter when they push players forward.

We will face a similar challenge on Sunday. And i fear if Dean adapt the same tactics we will see much the same. Bielsa and Ralph are better coaches than Smith so he ain't gonna beat them at their own game. Our best chance in getting a result against this lot is playing defensive football.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by villalad21

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

It isn't about dwelling on a result.

This wasn't just a fluke result. We struggle against sides who press and don't give us time on the ball.

We tried pressing them from the front, leaving us far too open when we lost the ball. Too big gaps between the midfield and defence. It was suicide tactics.

We need to find a way to combat these type of teams. We need to play like Wolves in these types of games. Stay in a low block, keep the shape very tight, don't give them any space to counter and try hit them on the counter when they push players forward.

We will face a similar challenge on Sunday. And i fear if Dean adapt the same tactics we will see much the same.

 

We beat one of the best pressing teams in Europe 7-2 

[Villarocker]

17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

It isn't about dwelling on a result.

This wasn't just a fluke result. We struggle against sides who press and don't give us time on the ball.

We tried pressing them from the front, leaving us far too open when we lost the ball. Too big gaps between the midfield and defence. It was suicide tactics.

We need to find a way to combat these type of teams. We need to play like Wolves in these types of games. Stay in a low block, keep the shape very tight, don't give them any space to counter and try hit them on the counter when they push players forward.

We will face a similar challenge on Sunday. And i fear if Dean adapt the same tactics we will see much the same. Bielsa and Ralph are better coaches than Smith so he ain't gonna beat them at their own game. Our best chance in getting a result against this lot is playing defensive football.

 

I didn't think we pressed enough. We gave Ayling far too much time on the ball to play long-range pass after long-range pass to set them off. 

 

[villalad21]

29 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We beat one of the best pressing teams in Europe 7-2 

We didn't play the same way. We disrespected Leeds.

We were nowhere near as open against Liverpool.

[VillanousOne]

36 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We didn't play the same way. We disrespected Leeds.

We were nowhere near as open against Liverpool.

not making excuses but we looked tired against Leeds. Especially in midfield. Barkley clearly wasn't fit and we got punished for it.

I love Dean, he has created one hell of an impressive Plan A, just doesn't seem to have a Plan B.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

We beat one of the best pressing teams in Europe 7-2 

We did indeed and it’s a shame we didn’t set up and approach the game against Leeds the same way and with the same intensity. No point dwelling now though. Can’t wait for Sunday.

[barry'sboots]

3 hours ago, tinker said:

Grealish needs to move his position , he can't keep to the left side , it's to easy to defend against, swap with Trez , start the game there, confuse the opposition.

I completely agree with this.  It really frustrates me that we don't constantly interchange throughout a game.  Trez can play LW and Jack could play anywhere.  It just makes sense to give the opposition fullbacks a different challenge and keep them guessing.

I remember years back (I think it was against Wolves at VP) when Albrighton was really struggling on the RW against a very physical LB.  Downing switched with him and we looked so much better.

[KenjiOgiwara]

56 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

not making excuses but we looked tired against Leeds. Especially in midfield. Barkley clearly wasn't fit and we got punished for it.

I love Dean, he has created one hell of an impressive Plan A, just doesn't seem to have a Plan B.

After one loss and 12 of 15 points. Sweet jesus. 

We clearly were not up for it. We looked less interested than Leeds, had less energy and personally I felt we looked slightly arrogant and took the match a bit to easy. 

Thus they schooled us. Which is a lesson in itself. We simply had an off day. But to go from there to Deano not having a plan B. I dunno. Not for me. 

[Kiwivillan]

24 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

After one loss and 12 of 15 points. Sweet jesus. 

We clearly were not up for it. We looked less interested than Leeds, had less energy and personally I felt we looked slightly arrogant and took the match a bit to easy. 

Thus they schooled us. Which is a lesson in itself. We simply had an off day. But to go from there to Deano not having a plan B. I dunno. Not for me. 

The most important thing about the loss is what they learn from it

[Enda]

29 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

After one loss and 12 of 15 points. Sweet jesus. 

He’s been our manager for more than five matches. He did try a plan B a bit last year when we went there at the back, didn’t work out. So I think it’s fair to say, right now, we’ve no plan B.

[Zatman]

Plan B is an extremely overrated term and a bit of a myth, Klopp or Pep or Mourinho or even Bielsa dont have a Plan B. They might have an expensive sub to change the game but no magic Plan B tactical options ever turn up

Villa battered Liverpool and not once did Klopp do some plan B tactical wizardry 

[barry'sboots]

2 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

not making excuses but we looked tired against Leeds. Especially in midfield. Barkley clearly wasn't fit and we got punished for it.

I love Dean, he has created one hell of an impressive Plan A, just doesn't seem to have a Plan B.

I agree 100%.  We have built a strong first XI, especially if Traore can come in on the right and be the dangerous, maverick player that we are all hoping for.  However, the gap to our second tier is stark and there is little on the bench that allows us to change the way we play or offer something different.

I am hoping that Ramsey will bring this.

Smith is wedded to a 4-3-3, although he has shifted since the arrival of Barkley to a 4-2-3-1.  Given his lack of real game changing back up options though, I think he needs to look at different ways to play/formations to compensate for the gap.

I hope we can address this gap over the next couple of windows.  Rashica in January would be a great start - give is 5 players for three positions (7, 10 & 11), assuming AEG goes out.

Edited October 27, 2020 by barry'sboots

[Vive_La_Villa]

14 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Plan B is an extremely overrated term and a bit of a myth, Klopp or Pep or Mourinho or even Bielsa dont have a Plan B. They might have an expensive sub to change the game but no magic Plan B tactical options ever turn up

Villa battered Liverpool and not once did Klopp do some plan B tactical wizardry 

I agree but I don’t think that was even our Plan A.  The first 4 games showed me a team that was hard to break down and deadly on the break. I didnt see that team last Friday. Especially once they scored.

[KenjiOgiwara]

16 hours ago, Enda said:

He’s been our manager for more than five matches. He did try a plan B a bit last year when we went there at the back, didn’t work out. So I think it’s fair to say, right now, we’ve no plan B.

It's not like managers have a button with a plan A and plan B that automatically works when activated. We have done really well so far and just had one off match. What's the point talking about plan B? What are you getting at? We didn't lose the match against Leeds cause our tactic didn't lead to chances. We had chances. We just didn't score. And we didn't defend too well or handle the pressure Leeds applied. It doesn't mean our tactics aren't okay to move forwards with, or that we need to figure out some plan B. We simply had a bad day at the office. All clubs do. And that's after 12/15 points for a team almost relegated last season. 

Right now we have less options to mix it up tactically or when we are snatching at it, simply because the squad depth is shite. Take out one good player and that alternative is championship level. That's just something we have to live with for a couple of more seasons, as we can't leap the development curve. We need to develop some what gradually. But that doesn't mean Deano aren't capable of switching things up if needs be, or that switching it up will automatically be the solution on off days. It was just a loss. That happens. Saying Deano doesn't have a plan B just doesn't fly. 

[PussEKatt]

It seems to me that we play the same tactic wether we are playing a top of the table team,a bottom of the table team or a mid table team.It looks to me like one tactic fits all.

[KenjiOgiwara]

13 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

It seems to me that we play the same tactic wether we are playing a top of the table team,a bottom of the table team or a mid table team.It looks to me like one tactic fits all.

Out of interest. What teams don't generally play a specific way against all sides? You can beat anyone with any tactic. You just need to do it well and put down a shift. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[Enda]

49 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

What's the point talking about plan B? What are you getting at?

For the avoidance of any doubt: I think Dean Smith is absolutely the right man for the job, and obviously we've done really well this season.

The point about "Plan B" is that we can look a bit lost at times. We saw it for the last half-hour against Leeds when it was all one-way traffic. I'd even argue it was clear after 30 minutes that we needed to tactically change things a bit, but mostly I'm referring to last year when we'd go 1-0 down and we'd never come back. Dean is a bit slow at making changes, and except for the time when we played three at the back we've stuck fairly strongly to one formation. Pep and Plop don't have an obvious Plan B because they rarely need one. Teams like us don't have that luxury. It would be nice (understatement) if our setup could switch depending on circumstances.

In the old days the switch would be moving to 5-4-1 when you're closing out a game, or going 4-3-3 when you're chasing a game. I don't know what that switch could be for our side. We're not set up that way, and it's not clear how we could do that. And I think that's a reasonable criticism of our current set up, that we haven't a Plan B when it's all one-way traffic against us. I cannot think of a single game where Smith has made a change after 60 minutes that really turned the game. It might have happened once or twice, but I can't really think of one.

[Enda]

3 minutes ago, Enda said:

I cannot think of a single game where Smith has made a change after 60 minutes that really turned the game. It might have happened once or twice, but I can't really think of one.

Or put differently, I can think of times when opposing managers made a change that stumped us.

[YouUnastanFren]

6 minutes ago, Enda said:

I'd even argue it was clear after 30 minutes that we needed to tactically change things a bit,

Disagree, I think we were doing okay in the opening half hour. For the first 20 minutes we were overwhelming Struijk to the point he was very lucky not to be sent off, then after he got subbed Grealish had the one cleared off the line that was close enough for Hawkeye to take a look.

That was by far the best chance either side had up until then, it certainly wasn't clear we needed to change anything. 

[barry'sboots]

47 minutes ago, Enda said:

For the avoidance of any doubt: I think Dean Smith is absolutely the right man for the job, and obviously we've done really well this season.

The point about "Plan B" is that we can look a bit lost at times. We saw it for the last half-hour against Leeds when it was all one-way traffic. I'd even argue it was clear after 30 minutes that we needed to tactically change things a bit, but mostly I'm referring to last year when we'd go 1-0 down and we'd never come back. Dean is a bit slow at making changes, and except for the time when we played three at the back we've stuck fairly strongly to one formation. Pep and Plop don't have an obvious Plan B because they rarely need one. Teams like us don't have that luxury. It would be nice (understatement) if our setup could switch depending on circumstances.

In the old days the switch would be moving to 5-4-1 when you're closing out a game, or going 4-3-3 when you're chasing a game. I don't know what that switch could be for our side. We're not set up that way, and it's not clear how we could do that. And I think that's a reasonable criticism of our current set up, that we haven't a Plan B when it's all one-way traffic against us. I cannot think of a single game where Smith has made a change after 60 minutes that really turned the game. It might have happened once or twice, but I can't really think of one.

I agree completely.

I think Smith now has a starting XI, if everyone is fit, that suits his preferred style of play ... 4-3-3, even though, with Ross on board, that has become more of a 4-2-3-1.

I think the challenges come when (1) things are not going well, as in the last half hour against Leeds; or (2) where we pick up a couple of injuries; or (3) where you are in a position where, as you put it, you want to see out the game.  For me, Smith and his team need to show a lot of improvement in this area, certainly from last season, but, with the exception of the Leeds game, have not really been tested like this as yet.  I am hoping that Shakespeare will be able to bring a lot to the party in this respect.