Dean Smith

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, gwi1890 said:

And still we have the best defensive record in the league 

I don't see how that is a counter point to his argument.

I'm assuming he is referring to the pressure we apply and how we close down space, how much space we allow opponents etc.

Leeds had acres of space down one side multiple times, and Bamford could have probably had brunch and a cigar before placeing a couple of his goals - for example.

We could have 300 shots thrown at us, and be carved open 300 more times without conceding and still have that "stat".

Aside from thatm I actually feel that it's our WITH the ball play that has let us down a few times.

Some very bad passing and final decisions which lead to turn overs and invite pressure as a result.

Overrall we have been pretty good though, we just need to address a few basics.

Edited October 27, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[barry'sboots]

8 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Overrall we have been pretty good though, we just need to address a few basics.

We need another lockdown.

Or better still, finish the season and now and calculate league position on average points per game!! 

[striker]

14 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I can't help you clearly. You don't get it.

Is there only one way to beat a side? Ever? You have to copy the team that last beat them?

Tottenham had a good blueprint for playing away at Southampton. 5-2 win, comprehensive. Not a 1-0 grub with a deflection.

Ancelotti really shit the bed, he must be "totally stupid" to not adapt and copy that actual good plan.

I’m sorry I’ve done my best to explain what I meant. Southampton are a different team to Leeds with different player attributes and weaknesses so you have to adapt to that. No there isn’t just one way to beat a team but Villa went toe to toe with Leeds and got hammered. So common sense would tell you when they meet in the return game that Smith needs to change it against them or the same will happen again.

Wolves had a game plan against them by not leaving space through the middle or on the flanks nullifying Leed’s constant attempts to break them down and it worked hence my blueprint comment.

Clearly it’s you that doesn’t get it or simply won’t get it so there’s no further explanation needed on my part.

[tinker]

11 minutes ago, striker said:

I’m sorry I’ve done my best to explain what I meant. Southampton are a different team to Leeds with different player attributes and weaknesses so you have to adapt to that. No there isn’t just one way to beat a team but Villa went toe to toe with Leeds and got hammered. So common sense would tell you when they meet in the return game that Smith needs to change it against them or the same will happen again.

Wolves had a game plan against them by not leaving space through the middle or on the flanks nullifying Leed’s constant attempts to break them down and it worked hence my blueprint comment.

Clearly it’s you that doesn’t get it or simply won’t get it so there’s no further explanation needed on my part.

We didn't get hammered, we missed our chances and they took theirs.They were also very lucky they finished the first half with 11 still on the pitch, Bielsa realised this after the second heavy challenge went in from a player who was already on a yellow, he substituted him straight after that challenge, Everton wasn't so lucky.

The only reason Banford was given so much space was the VR check for a penalty from earlier in the game, when he threw himself to the floor in a theatrical way only he can do, he should have got a yellow for that. Mings stood of him after that, he's a cheat. 

The Wolves game.... Wolves had poorer chances but they had a bit of luck in front of goal. The over reaction to losing one game is ridiculous. . 

Smith will go through all of this, Leeds will not have a easy season (neither will we). Last season we was the worst team in the league that didn't get relegated and that's not going away, we will still be bottom half along with Leeds and a few others. We are very much a team in building, the good  start has us all a bit confused into thinking we are a better than we actually really are. 

 

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

We didn't get hammered, we missed our chances and they took theirs.They were also very lucky they finished the first half with 11 still on the pitch, Bielsa realised this after the second heavy challenge went in from a player who was already on a yellow, he substituted him straight after that challenge, Everton wasn't so lucky.

The only reason Banford was given so much space was the VR check for a penalty from earlier in the game, when he threw himself to the floor in a theatrical way only he can do, he should have got a yellow for that. Mings stood of him after that, he's a cheat. 

The Wolves game.... Wolves had poorer chances but they had a bit of luck in front of goal. The over reaction to losing one game is ridiculous. . 

Smith will go through all of this, Leeds will not have a easy season (neither will we). Last season we was the worst team in the league that didn't get relegated and that's not going away, we will still be bottom half along with Leeds and a few others. We are very much a team in building, the good  start has us all a bit confused into thinking we are a better than we actually really are. 

 

We got hammered.

Leeds had 28 shots that game. Could have scored 5 or 6 

They bombarded us on the flanks all game and we were lucky only to concede 3. We went back to our pre lockdown performances this game.

Edited October 27, 2020 by villalad21

[TRO]

13 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I don't see how that is a counter point to his argument.

I'm assuming he is referring to the pressure we apply and how we close down space, how much space we allow opponents etc.

Leeds had acres of space down one side multiple times, and Bamford could have probably had brunch and a cigar before placeing a couple of his goals - for example.

We could have 300 shots thrown at us, and be carved open 300 more times without conceding and still have that "stat".

Aside from thatm I actually feel that it's our WITH the ball play that has let us down a few times.

Some very bad passing and final decisions which lead to turn overs and invite pressure as a result.

Overrall we have been pretty good though, we just need to address a few basics.

Yep

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, tinker said:

We didn't get hammered, we missed our chances and they took theirs.They were also very lucky they finished the first half with 11 still on the pitch, Bielsa realised this after the second heavy challenge went in from a player who was already on a yellow, he substituted him straight after that challenge, Everton wasn't so lucky.

The only reason Banford was given so much space was the VR check for a penalty from earlier in the game, when he threw himself to the floor in a theatrical way only he can do, he should have got a yellow for that. Mings stood of him after that, he's a cheat. 

The Wolves game.... Wolves had poorer chances but they had a bit of luck in front of goal. The over reaction to losing one game is ridiculous. . 

Smith will go through all of this, Leeds will not have a easy season (neither will we). Last season we was the worst team in the league that didn't get relegated and that's not going away, we will still be bottom half along with Leeds and a few others. We are very much a team in building, the good  start has us all a bit confused into thinking we are a better than we actually really are. 

 

I am not sure we will be bottom half or Leeds but we do have to be mindful of the other side of the game, like we have been since lockdown.....I think the 4 wins, took our eye off that ball and got us playing a bit pre lockdown....we rendered ourselves far too open.

Leeds have an intensity and a willingness to run without the ball as good as any in the League....Sheff Utd did it too in their first season. It wasn't just athleticism and tenacity, they passed the ball exceedingly well, but that is when the initiative had been secured.

It is only one game as you say, but we need to be mindful it doesn't start a run, because other teams will see how to play us.

The leeds game has to be studied and rectification put in place, without disrupting all the good stuff, we have mustered so far.

We did miss some golden chances and we could have scored 3 quite easily, but equally the game could have ended 3-3.....However, history is what it is hindsight and the second half Leeds stole the initiative and applied their clinical touches. We have to be better than that second half, no matter which angle you look at it......All the excellent work we did in the previous 4 games had no bearing on that second half, it was what it was...and we have to avoid a repeat of it.

Edited October 27, 2020 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, striker said:

I’m sorry I’ve done my best to explain what I meant. Southampton are a different team to Leeds with different player attributes and weaknesses so you have to adapt to that. No there isn’t just one way to beat a team but Villa went toe to toe with Leeds and got hammered. So common sense would tell you when they meet in the return game that Smith needs to change it against them or the same will happen again.

Wolves had a game plan against them by not leaving space through the middle or on the flanks nullifying Leed’s constant attempts to break them down and it worked hence my blueprint comment.

Clearly it’s you that doesn’t get it or simply won’t get it so there’s no further explanation needed on my part.

Don’t you think we changed how we played in the last 3 games, in particular Fulham and Liverpool?

Our possession stats were quite low in both those games, we were just clinical when we won the ball back. We let them play in front of us. 
 

 I felt like this time we tried to take the game to Leeds leaving us open on the break time after time.  Listening to Smith post game I’m not sure this is how Smith actually wanted them to play.
 

I reckon we’ll go back to being a lot tighter next game.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

We didn't get hammered, we missed our chances and they took theirs.They were also very lucky they finished the first half with 11 still on the pitch, Bielsa realised this after the second heavy challenge went in from a player who was already on a yellow, he substituted him straight after that challenge, Everton wasn't so lucky.

The only reason Banford was given so much space was the VR check for a penalty from earlier in the game, when he threw himself to the floor in a theatrical way only he can do, he should have got a yellow for that. Mings stood of him after that, he's a cheat. 

The Wolves game.... Wolves had poorer chances but they had a bit of luck in front of goal. The over reaction to losing one game is ridiculous. . 

Smith will go through all of this, Leeds will not have a easy season (neither will we). Last season we was the worst team in the league that didn't get relegated and that's not going away, we will still be bottom half along with Leeds and a few others. We are very much a team in building, the good  start has us all a bit confused into thinking we are a better than we actually really are. 

 

I only read VT but I must admit I haven’t seen this at all.  I’ve seen frustration  because we are better than that. The players and Smith have admitted they were disappointed with themselves too. 

[TRO]

56 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I only read VT but I must admit I haven’t seen this at all.  I’ve seen frustration  because we are better than that. The players and Smith have admitted they were disappointed with themselves too. 

spot on.

I think the observations have been fair.

[tinker]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

We got hammered.

Leeds had 28 shots that game. Could have scored 5 or 6 

They bombarded us on the flanks all game and we were lucky only to concede 3. We went back to our pre lockdown performances this game.

No we didn't, they had plenty of possession but we had clear cut chances that were better than at least 2 of the goals they scored. I'm not going over the other factors of the game again, they was very lucky to finish the first half  with 11 men on the pitch 

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, tinker said:

No we didn't, they had plenty of possession but we had clear cut chances that were better than at least 2 of the goals they scored. I'm not going over the other factors of the game again, they was very lucky to finish the first half  with 11 men on the pitch 

I think they still would have won.....such was the way that game went.

The first goal, did affect us badly, but it shouldn't and it was a poor feature of our play......in contrast, Leeds just kept coming back from being goals down against Liverpool and showed that same spirit against us.....we could easily have been 3 up, but it was moments in the game.....they won the battle of the pitch.

I think that game has to be analysed in isolation of what we did in the previous 4.......We simply failed in so many areas of the pitch to stop them,on the night, so many of our players surrendered to their intense tenacity and pressing and could not win back the initiative.

We have to recognise that without beating ourselves up....it was there for all to see..........................Now, its all about what we do about it, if another team tries it.

[tinker]

I agree with our lack of holding it together when we went behind , we sort of through it all in . I thought Trez coming off was a mistake tbh, he lacks composure but his work rate was helping disrupt Leeds. 

I'm very nervous  about throwing the baby out with the water. Leeds have played the same in every game I have watched them this year and failed in the final third, this time they never .

As we have discussed before we need a more defensive midfield when we are struggling to grab a hold in the game but unless that comes from an unknown source, Ramsey ( Nakamba isn't good enough in possession) then we haven't got the personnel to do it . Not that I can see anyway. 

For me we have to keep the same players on the pitch and just take our chances and not be to uptight when we go behind. 

Grealish needs to move his position , he can't keep to the left side , it's to easy to defend against, swap with Trez , start the game there, confuse the opposition.

When we need to score then bring Davies on and get some crosses in ( Leeds didn't have a recognised CB on the pitch) 

[useless]

I think we just need to forget about the Leeds game now and move on.

Overall we've still had  a very good start to the season, Everton probably the only team that wouldn't swap places with us.

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, useless said:

I think we just need to forget about the Leeds game now and move on.

Overall we've still had  a very good start to the season, Everton probably the only team that wouldn't swap places with us.

No we shouldn't forget about it.

We conceded 28 shots against a newly promoted side. That does not sit right with me. We need to analyze it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Enda]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

No we shouldn't forget about it.

We conceded 28 shots against a newly promoted side. That does not sit right with me. We need to analyze it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Leeds deserved to win the game, and I’m not a huge fan of contrived statistics, but expected goals measure was 2.6 for them versus 1.4 for us. I think that’s a fairly accurate summary of the match (the match, not the result), something like 2-1 or 3-1 to them, rather than your 28 shots statistic.

[useless]

'We' have no way of making it sure it never happens again, our analyzing it makes no difference whatsoever, I'm sure those at the club will have done all the analyzing they need to do.

I'm also pretty sure that their main focus now is the Southampton game, and not dwelling on a game that's already lost, we need to take the positives from the season so far and them into that match, not let the Leeds game ruin our confidence.

[Keyblade]

There couldn't have been a better kick up the ass than losing the way we did. I doubt we'll ever get complacent again. You need to put in 100% effort every game, no exceptions. We'd have had 9 days rest by Sunday. I expect to see a refreshed and rejuvenated side with fire in their bellies on Sunday. Southampton are a good side, and seem to have the measure of us if last season is anything to go by. We'll also see if Smith has learned from those 2 games and if he can turn the tide.

[TRO]

17 hours ago, tinker said:

I agree with our lack of holding it together when we went behind , we sort of through it all in . I thought Trez coming off was a mistake tbh, he lacks composure but his work rate was helping disrupt Leeds. 

I'm very nervous  about throwing the baby out with the water. Leeds have played the same in every game I have watched them this year and failed in the final third, this time they never .

As we have discussed before we need a more defensive midfield when we are struggling to grab a hold in the game but unless that comes from an unknown source, Ramsey ( Nakamba isn't good enough in possession) then we haven't got the personnel to do it . Not that I can see anyway. 

For me we have to keep the same players on the pitch and just take our chances and not be to uptight when we go behind. 

Grealish needs to move his position , he can't keep to the left side , it's to easy to defend against, swap with Trez , start the game there, confuse the opposition.

When we need to score then bring Davies on and get some crosses in ( Leeds didn't have a recognised CB on the pitch) 

We have improved in general, absolutely no doubt about that.

That's my view too, we haven't got the personnel to deal with that......and with all we have had to change, I am hoping its the next step.....We need a modern day Steve McMahon, who can also play a bit too....we need a enforcer that finds the role natural and can win balls with a regularity, not just a shadow that marshalls and backs off....sure we have to keep shape, but we have to let them know we are there too.

I am not having a go at Dean, because IMO he hasn't got the players in the squad to do what I am suggesting.....I know its not like the old days with Smith, Harris and Hunter....but you do have to stop the opposition from having their own way.

Trust me, Grealish is not the problem.....but when 3 gang up on him, we should have players to help protect him too......we don't go to the overload areas quick enough, Matty cash was crucified and we just watched it happen.....they went down the  left with Alioski and Harrison to  divert the play away from Grealish, quite clever really.....But I will be amazed if we see that happen again this season, but we should have dealt with it on the night.

Leeds didn't have a recognised centre back on display or a left back.....it was an improvised back line......but what they did have was tenacity, fight and a willingness to run to Australia if necessary......we have to be able in the future to match that intensity and urgency ourselves, technical ability is great, but it won't always get us out of jail.

I know the game has moved on, but we do need a few growlers in the squad, who can obviously play too.

Edited October 28, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

35 minutes ago, useless said:

I think we just need to forget about the Leeds game now and move on.

Overall we've still had  a very good start to the season, Everton probably the only team that wouldn't swap places with us.

I think they would, we have a game in hand.

We do have to move on, and we can't change anything either......but we have to be realistic that we can't just play like we did in the first 4 games and expect teams to stand by and watch.....we have to learn from the Leeds game.

Our recruitment has been much improved, but we learned from the other night that we still have a lot to improve on.