Dean Smith

[nick76]

25 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Jack saw himself as a CM. He may have since come around to the idea that he's better on the left, but it definitely look like Smith sees him as better out wide too.

I think if we had 2 quality wingers, with Jack in the middle,  we'd be even more effective,  and Jack would  have the freedom to go down either side as well as direct through the middle. Needs 2 quality wingers though. 

I don’t agree, I think Jack is in the best position for him.  Get another great winger on the right and then a top notch player in Ross’ position.  Jack has far more freedom in his current position.

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

When he is on the left we attack 60% of the time down the left. When he is in the middle we attack 40, 30, 30. It means we are getting cash and traore involved more. Means he can go out wide right easier. Or play those killer through balls for watkins. Like the one against crystal palace. 

Doesn’t Jack have more assists and goals in his new position that in that central role you suggest.  

Not sure why you are wanting to break something that is working spectacular and his stats have also increased.  

Isn’t it better to focus on improving other players rather than moving something that is working.  

Also not convinced on your 40, 30, 30 stats because Jack floats down the left even when he played centrally because he likes coming in on his right foot.

[MrBlack]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I don’t agree, I think Jack is in the best position for him.  Get another great winger on the right and then a top notch player in Ross’ position.  Jack has far more freedom in his current position.

It's definitely a debatable point. I wouldn't be against your approach, but think it will be easier for us to attract a dedicated top winger than it would to be attract a dedicated top number 10. The fact is, its a much more difficult position than being a winger. Jack could become the best in that position in the world given his ability.

But then, to your point,  he could also become the best playing the left side of a front 3 (behind the striker) that rotate amongst themselves. 

[MotoMkali]

28 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Doesn’t Jack have more assists and goals in his new position that in that central role you suggest.  

Not sure why you are wanting to break something that is working spectacular and his stats have also increased.  

Isn’t it better to focus on improving other players rather than moving something that is working.  

Also not convinced on your 40, 30, 30 stats because Jack floats down the left even when he played centrally because he likes coming in on his right foot.

If you exclude the Liverpool game because it is an anomaly (you should - well outside 3 standard deviations from Jack's mean). Jack Averages slightly more goal Contributions as a CAM than as a winger. On top of our other winger playing better I prefer jack in the centre. Yeah he goes down the left more frequently but the ball goes to traore more because Jack can offer more support down that side of the pitch. 

[MrBlack]

Going off topic with the above, so to try and bring it back, I have faith in Dean (and the rest of the leadership) that we'll see Jack being played where it is both best for him and us, wherever that is.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Gandalf the Great has spoken, so nothing else will do now. Lol

Edited February 1, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[YouUnastanFren]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Gandalf the Great has spoken, so nothing else will do now.

This MFer really wasn't joking when he said joining Villa was a step up was he? He truly believes it

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

If you exclude the Liverpool game because it is an anomaly (you should - well outside 3 standard deviations from Jack's mean). Jack Averages slightly more goal Contributions as a CAM than as a winger. On top of our other winger playing better I prefer jack in the centre. Yeah he goes down the left more frequently but the ball goes to traore more because Jack can offer more support down that side of the pitch. 

Where are you getting those stats from because I’ve seen the opposite? 

On top of that he has better stats this season than before and has been playing left side so just on view your claim seems inconsistent with reality but happy to be proven wrong if you have the stats.

The only way I can think off the top of my head how you get that is if you are comparing Championship stats versus Premier League stats which is flawed before we even start but seriously I’d love to see the stats.

[DCJonah]

19 hours ago, Zatman said:

Man City have made 41 subs in the league this season, we have made 38. West Brom and Sheffield United have made 61

Only just saw this. 

Game, set and match. Superb. That puts an end to that nonsense then. 

May your apology be as loud as your disrespect. 

Haha I'm so glad you did this research. You'd have thought those making such ludicrous claims would have done it. 

Imagine coming into moan after a win and then be proved so wrong. Brilliant. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, MotoMkali said:

If you exclude the Liverpool game because it is an anomaly (you should - well outside 3 standard deviations from Jack's mean). Jack Averages slightly more goal Contributions as a CAM than as a winger. On top of our other winger playing better I prefer jack in the centre. Yeah he goes down the left more frequently but the ball goes to traore more because Jack can offer more support down that side of the pitch. 

1 goal and 3 assists in the 8 games Barkley was out and he went more central

[MotoMkali]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

1 goal and 3 assists in the 8 games Barkley was out and he went more central

Grealish played left wing up until the Burnley game. We played traore cam, Ramsey CAM and went 3 in the middle with hourihane. Grealish scored a goal in those 3 games. Got 3 assists in the 5 he played as CAM. 

[useless]

We as a team with Grealish in central midfield have done better this season with him playing there than we did with him there last season, and Grealish has done better personally as well in that position compared to last season, I think in part thanks to Luiz's improvement, and McGInn playing deeper, so they work almost as a sort of 'double pivot'.

That said I still think Grealish is better on the left wing, and looks like that's where Smith likes him as well, I think we probably get more out of Watkins with Grealish on the left wing as well.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Only just saw this. 

Game, set and match. Superb. That puts an end to that nonsense then. 

May your apology be as loud as your disrespect. 

Haha I'm so glad you did this research. You'd have thought those making such ludicrous claims would have done it. 

Imagine coming into moan after a win and then be proved so wrong. Brilliant. 

How does it " put an end to this nonsense " definitively though?

How does the shittest sides in the league, making more changes than anyone, prove or disprove the possibility of substitutes possibly affecting results one way or another, negatively or positively? ( Aside from the fact that the shittest sides obviously have the shittest squads and players to sub on in the first place - and more than likely make more subs out of desperation)

Why do you accept that all of these situations are reliant on a multitude of variables when it suits, but not when it doesn't?

A Man City fan could make the argument that if they had made a particular change, in a particular game sooner,, later etc they might have won a game they drew or lost.

Doesn't mean that particular fan is a clearing in the woods, or is against/discrediting the manager.

I'm 1000 percent certain we could find a team who have made more subs and are actually doing well, but it still wouldn't discredit or validate an argument either way, as again, there are way too many variables to make a definitive conclusion.

Man United, Liverpool, West Ham, Everton and Leicester have all made more subs than us. ( ALL above us ).

Burnley have made less - but by the logic we are trying to blanket apply here, clubs which have made less subs should be doing better?

We can all find stats to suit any angle we want to.

Again, how to you aggressively claim that " There is no proof any subs would have made a difference ", but not understand that by the same token, you have NO proof that they would NOT have?

And no, don't single out a game we won either.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[GENTLEMAN]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

If you exclude the Liverpool game because it is an anomaly (you should - well outside 3 standard deviations from Jack's mean). Jack Averages slightly more goal Contributions as a CAM than as a winger. On top of our other winger playing better I prefer jack in the centre. Yeah he goes down the left more frequently but the ball goes to traore more because Jack can offer more support down that side of the pitch. 

Show your working please.

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

How does it " put an end to this nonsense " definitively though?

How does the shittest sides in the league, making more changes than anyone, prove or disprove the possibility of substitutes possibly affecting results one way or another, negatively or positively? ( Aside from the fact that the shittest sides obviously have the shittest squads and players to sub on in the first place - and more than likely make more subs out of desperation)

Why do you accept that all of these situations are reliant on a multitude of variables when it suits, but not when it doesn't?

A Man City fan could make the argument that if they had made a particular change, in a particular game sooner,, later etc they might have won a game they drew or lost.

Doesn't mean that particular fan is a clearing in the woods, or is against/discrediting the manager.

I'm 1000 percent certain we could find a team who have made more subs and are actually doing well, but it still wouldn't discredit or validate an argument either way, as again, there are way too many variables to make a definitive conclusion.

Man United, Liverpool, West Ham, Everton and Leicester have all made more subs than us. ( ALL above us ).

Burnley have made less - but by the logic we are trying to blanket apply here, clubs which have made less subs should be doing better?

We can all find stats to suit any angle we want to.

Again, how to you aggressively claim that " There is no proof any subs would have made a difference ", but not understand that by the same token, you have NO proof that they would NOT have?

And no, don't single out a game we won either.

 

It puts an end to this nonsense because people were claiming that top managers use subs and we don't. Proved wrong right there.

I'm not trying to use particular sub stats. My point was, the decisions Dean Smith has made, has got us to this point. Claiming he's flawed based on nothing is nonsense. It was all made up hypothetical situations to have a moan.

Of course there are variables, that's been my argument from the start. There is no way to say those subs would have made a difference and there is no way to say they wouldn't, I personally didn't think they would, but I wouldn't call the manager flawed if he disagreed.

My issue wasn't with anyone who believed a sub might have helped, loads of people said that. It was with the fools who are so deluded they've convinced themselves that this is a major flaw of Dean Smith, with one poster claiming we'd be higher in the league if Dean made more simple changes. 

Its hilarious that those moaning the most didn't even bother to check the facts about subs used. 

 

[Kiwivillan]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Jack Averages slightly more goal Contributions as a CAM than as a winger

That's bollocks

[Rightdm00]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

If you exclude the Liverpool game because it is an anomaly (you should - well outside 3 standard deviations from Jack's mean). Jack Averages slightly more goal Contributions as a CAM than as a winger. On top of our other winger playing better I prefer jack in the centre. Yeah he goes down the left more frequently but the ball goes to traore more because Jack can offer more support down that side of the pitch. 

If we throw out the Liverpool game per FBref he has 3G 4A at LW w/o Barkley. From the middle without Barkley he has 1G 3A. Where are you getting your #s from?

[Sam-AVFC]

15 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

If we throw out the Liverpool game per FBref he has 3G 4A at LW w/o Barkley. From the middle without Barkley he has 1G 3A. Where are you getting your #s from?

How many appearances has he had in each position? If he's played 3 times as much on the wing then there is no debate that his stats from a central position are better.

[Rightdm00]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

How many appearances has he had in each position? If he's played 3 times as much on the wing then there is no debate that his stats from a central position are better.

11 w/ Barkley 

8 w/o Barkley

I put the Brighton game in the no Barkley category since Barkley was gone by the 5 minute mark. 

.65 G/A with Barkley

.5 G/A without Barkley

Not sure where this infatuation with playing him central comes from. Eye test, stats, analytically he looks better from the left. Not to mention whenever he starts center he always ends up crowding out the LW anyway. 

 

 

 

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

11 w/ Barkley 

8 w/o Barkley

I put the Brighton game in the no Barkley category since Barkley was gone by the 5 minute mark. 

.65 G/A with Barkley

.5 G/A without Barkley

Not sure where this infatuation with playing him central comes from. Eye test, stats, analytically he looks better from the left. Not to mention whenever he starts center he always ends up crowding out the LW anyway.