Dean Smith

[weedman]

44 minutes ago, Dave J said:

I don't agree with all due respect - Let's be fair - have you ever known a footballer say anything bad about a manager that picked him on a regular  basis - l believe JT was the greater influence, plus you have factor in the lower standard of football and Jack waking up a little as well? I will happily stand corrected - but I remain unconvinced a man that " doesn't do tactics " would have a significant impact upon Jack.

The "doesn't do tactics" line is vastly overplayed though, he very clearly does tactics, its just those tactics are very defensive so people don't like them. He's a bit like Mourinho (obviously a crapper version) in that he gives the attacking players freedom to do as they like, and focuses his efforts on making the team solid, hence why he requires average defenders (as more players are deployed there) but really exceptional attackers (as fewer players get forward). 

Its easy to see why a player like Jack would not only enjoy it, but thrive when given the license to play his own game and not worry too much about following a specific plan

He may continue to improve under DS (or at Spurs next season), as he adapts to playing in a system rather than being given free reign, it remains to be seen (I certainly hope he will), but to date the best and most consistent form of his career has come under Bruce, and to simply dismiss that because he said he doesn't do tactics as a throwaway comment like 15 years ago just shows a clear bias against him

I personally think that DS teams tend to be less direct, therefore slower in the build up which means less space for a player like Jack to work in which may hinder him a little, however he's got a good eye for a pass so if we can get the movement right ahead of him that will definately help. He also is excellent at buying free kicks and with Conors delivery we will always be a threat from them

[Hornso]

13 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

An update of Dean Smith's phone..

 

Too much Snake II will do that.

[Vive_La_Villa]

47 minutes ago, weedman said:

The "doesn't do tactics" line is vastly overplayed though, he very clearly does tactics, its just those tactics are very defensive so people don't like them. He's a bit like Mourinho (obviously a crapper version) in that he gives the attacking players freedom to do as they like, and focuses his efforts on making the team solid, hence why he requires average defenders (as more players are deployed there) but really exceptional attackers (as fewer players get forward). 

Its easy to see why a player like Jack would not only enjoy it, but thrive when given the license to play his own game and not worry too much about following a specific plan

He may continue to improve under DS (or at Spurs next season), as he adapts to playing in a system rather than being given free reign, it remains to be seen (I certainly hope he will), but to date the best and most consistent form of his career has come under Bruce, and to simply dismiss that because he said he doesn't do tactics as a throwaway comment like 15 years ago just shows a clear bias against him

I personally think that DS teams tend to be less direct, therefore slower in the build up which means less space for a player like Jack to work in which may hinder him a little, however he's got a good eye for a pass so if we can get the movement right ahead of him that will definately help. He also is excellent at buying free kicks and with Conors delivery we will always be a threat from them

Top post!

[A'Villan]

People say we were unconvincing against Ipswich but that's only because the game finished 2-1  with them hitting the woodwork late on which would have made it 2-2.

I understand the angst because dropping more points would be demoralising no matter which way you look at it. Add to that the league position of the opposition.

The reality is though is we created much better chances and more of them than Ipswich. Abraham should have had 4 and that's not an exaggeration, two sitters were squandered.

Had we converted more chances the mood would be less filled with doubt and concern than it is right now and there would be less reason to call our team into question.

I'd like to point out that the goal we conceded against Ipswich was another stunning strike from outside the box, we've been on the wrong end of a few of those.

[Dave J]

Weedman - yes I am happy to fess up to a bias against Bruce, but I would add this bias began long before he joined us. I've always considered him to be a bang average journey man.

People talk of his promotion record ? It's 4 promotions in 20 odd years - I'd whisper this if I were him.

Any way back to JG - I'm sure I read that JT was a bigger influence - but even this does not convince me much either way - Jack is a talented boy whose star was always going to shine, coupled with a little growing maturity and playing against inferior opposition - he was always likely to come good imo 

 

[romavillan]

2 hours ago, A'Villan said:

People say we were unconvincing against Ipswich but that's only because the game finished 2-1  with them hitting the woodwork late on which would have made it 2-2.

I understand the angst because dropping more points would be demoralising no matter which way you look at it. Add to that the league position of the opposition.

The reality is though is we created much better chances and more of them than Ipswich. Abraham should have had 4 and that's not an exaggeration, two sitters were squandered.

Had we converted more chances the mood would be less filled with doubt and concern than it is right now and there would be less reason to call our team into question.

I'd like to point out that the goal we conceded against Ipswich was another stunning strike from outside the box, we've been on the wrong end of a few of those.

Totally agree but their goal was also after massive fannying about, mistakes, standing off and just bizarre attempts to play football by us. Cut out half of the dozen errors in the lead up to that goal and they don't score.

[LakotaDakota]

40 minutes ago, Dave J said:

People talk of his promotion record ? It's 4 promotions in 20 odd years - I'd whisper this if I were him

It's not though is it, He has managed in the prem for most of his career.

You can't really count the 5 games he managed huddersfield in 2000/01 so his First proper season was 01/02 where he managed palace & Brum, Got Brum promoted. 4 years in the prem before being relegated and got them promoted back up at the first attempt. The next 6 years he was in the prem with Brum, Wigan & Sunderland before taking over Hull in the championship and getting them up first time, 2 more years in the prem before being relegated and then getting hull back up again at the first try.

Before he came here it was basically 4 promotions in 4 years , Not too shabby considering it was with Brum & Hull. Hardly 2 great powerhouses of english football

[A'Villan]

39 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Totally agree but their goal was also after massive fannying about, mistakes, standing off and just bizarre attempts to play football by us. Cut out half of the dozen errors in the lead up to that goal and they don't score.

Some of the defending was there was an art form. Only not the type we are looking for. It was like the perfect parody for bad defending I can imagine. Shambolic.

8 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

It's not though is it, He has managed in the prem for most of his career.

You can't really count the 5 games he managed huddersfield in 2000/01 so his First proper season was 01/02 where he managed palace & Brum, Got Brum promoted. 4 years in the prem before being relegated and got them promoted back up at the first attempt. The next 6 years he was in the prem with Brum, Wigan & Sunderland before taking over Hull in the championship and getting them up first time, 2 more years in the prem before being relegated and then getting hull back up again at the first try.

Before he came here it was basically 4 promotions in 4 years , Not too shabby considering it was with Brum & Hull. Hardly 2 great powerhouses of english football

He's had ridiculous transfer budgets with Brum, from memory they were absurd for the championship at the time.

He won 18 of his 24 victories with Hull by 1 goal in one of their promotion seasons. There's a similar stat about his other Hull promotion but I forget.

To his credit he got Sunderland to their highest ever Premier League finish, again, if memory serves correct. The Sunderland board expected European placing with the transfer budget he was afforded. He had players like Sessegnon, Muntari, Bent, Gyan, Mignolet, Henderson, Welbeck at his disposal.

He's not the worst manager in the world but he will never be cutting edge. Even

[Dave J]

47 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

It's not though is it, He has managed in the prem for most of his career.

You can't really count the 5 games he managed huddersfield in 2000/01 so his First proper season was 01/02 where he managed palace & Brum, Got Brum promoted. 4 years in the prem before being relegated and got them promoted back up at the first attempt. The next 6 years he was in the prem with Brum, Wigan & Sunderland before taking over Hull in the championship and getting them up first time, 2 more years in the prem before being relegated and then getting hull back up again at the first try.

Before he came here it was basically 4 promotions in 4 years , Not too shabby considering it was with Brum & Hull. Hardly 2 great powerhouses of english football

That's a very clever way of manipulating statistics - however it changes not one jot, when you strip it back it still comes out as this:- 4 promotions in 20 + years of football management. You also cite Brum and Hull as hardly being powerhouses - yes I agree, neither are palace, Wigan, Sheffield Utd, Sunderland - all pretty average clubs imo. Don't you think that after 20 odd years in the game - he would have got a bigger gig than this lot - if his reputation is so good.

Lets be honest he only got our job - because of Learner pulling the plug.

I recall the day he was appointed - I felt so totally underwhelmed and had a feeling how it would end up like this

[New_Hope]

Agree with sne....this is the Dean Smith thread. The I'm still in love with....' or the 'he is a total cockwomble' thread is down the hall!

[LakotaDakota]

14 minutes ago, Dave J said:

That's a very clever way of manipulating statistics - however it changes not one jot, when you strip it back it still comes out as this:- 4 promotions in 20 + years of football management.

That is quite possibly one of the stupidest things i have ever read on here and there is plenty to choose from

How is he supposed to get promoted from the premier league ffs?

before coming to us he had only managed for 4 years in the championship in 20 years of management, all 4 of those years he got teams promoted

Fergie has no promotions, nor does wenger or mourinho..

Edited January 30, 2019 by LakotaDakota

[briny_ear]

5 hours ago, A'Villan said:

People say we were unconvincing against Ipswich but that's only because the game finished 2-1  with them hitting the woodwork late on which would have made it 2-2.

I understand the angst because dropping more points would be demoralising no matter which way you look at it. Add to that the league position of the opposition.

The reality is though is we created much better chances and more of them than Ipswich. Abraham should have had 4 and that's not an exaggeration, two sitters were squandered.

Had we converted more chances the mood would be less filled with doubt and concern than it is right now and there would be less reason to call our team into question.

I'd like to point out that the goal we conceded against Ipswich was another stunning strike from outside the box, we've been on the wrong end of a few of those.

Sounds like an extended way of saying we were unconvincing.

[A'Villan]

1 minute ago, briny_ear said:

Sounds like an extended way of saying we were unconvincing.

I was told about two hours ago that I have a knack for brevity

Do you think we were unconvincing? Because I don't and that's not the message I wanted to convey.

While it wasn't a resounding victory Abraham squandered two sitters that should've been put away and that would have been game over. Even though we were absolutely gifted that penalty we still created more chances than Ipswich and always looked like being the first team to score. It just so happened that both goals were from set-pieces and not open play but that is not an indictment of our build up play as we had some decent moments in that regard.

Their best chances were a direct lofted pass from deep midfield which split our CB's and put them through, rounding our keeper only to have the shot blocked by a last ditch intercept. Their goal, which was a quality strike but uncontested, we gifted a virutally unmarked run down the right wing into space and allowed Ipswich to get in behind, then two Villa players scrambled to chase the Ipswich player who'd been played through down the flank which meant that a central runner was left open for too long. A mishit pass intended for that runner rolled across the top of the box and was collected by Ipswich who then played a harmless pass to the goalscorer who hit one home from range. Someone needs to have a word with Hourihane about closing down a player that's within range, he's been guilty of allowing a number of  shots from outside the box to go uncontested, ultimately ending up in goals. I mean should we stand off 'til they've walked the ball into the net? I don't get it. Chalobah hit the woodwork too but aside from that they didn't threaten.

So there were costly errors but we did enough to deserve victory and that's what we got. Just because we conceded two or three pieces of play that meant the nerves kicked in doesn't mean we were unconvincing. It just shows how the pressures of expectation surrounding our overall season compound the feelings we experience throughout a match.

[fightoffyour]

10 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

I was told about two hours ago that I have a knack for brevity

Do you think we were unconvincing? Because I don't and that's not the message I wanted to convey.

While it wasn't a resounding victory Abraham squandered two sitters that should've been put away and that would have been game over. Even though we were absolutely gifted that penalty we still created more chances than Ipswich and always looked like being the first team to score. It just so happened that both goals were from set-pieces and not open play but that is not an indictment of our build up play as we had some decent moments in that regard.

Their best chances were a direct lofted pass from deep midfield which split our CB's and put them through, rounding our keeper only to have the shot blocked by a last ditch intercept. Their goal, which was a quality strike but uncontested, we gifted a virutally unmarked run down the right wing into space and allowed Ipswich to get in behind, then two Villa players scrambled to chase the Ipswich player who'd been played through down the flank which meant that a central runner was left open for too long. A mishit pass intended for that runner rolled across the top of the box and was collected by Ipswich who then played a harmless pass to the goalscorer who hit one home from range. Someone needs to have a word with Hourihane about closing down a player that's within range, he's been guilty of allowing a number of  shots from outside the box to go uncontested, ultimately ending up in goals. I mean should we stand off 'til they've walked the ball into the net? I don't get it. Chalobah hit the woodwork too but aside from that they didn't threaten.

So there were costly errors but we did enough to deserve victory and that's what we got. Just because we conceded two or three pieces of play that meant the nerves kicked in doesn't mean we were unconvincing. It just shows how the pressures of expectation surrounding our overall season compound the feelings we experience throughout a match.

Okay, I’m convinced.

[Dave J]

9 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

That is quite possibly one of the stupidest things i have ever read on here and there is plenty to choose from

How is he supposed to get promoted from the premier league ffs?

before coming to us he had only managed for 4 years in the championship in 20 years of management, all 4 of those years he got teams promoted

Fergie has no promotions, nor does wenger or mourinho..

Once again you don't seem to get the point and I think you are a little rude as well.

The facts are the facts - what more can I say? He has won 4 promotions in his entire career, there is nothing else to say - who mentioned how many years he has managed in the premier ??  Unless of course you claim years in the prem as a success  - which is a different arguement alltogether  Bruce's career runs out as a bang average journeyman with the likes of Allardyce, Hughes , Pullis, Moyes, etc.

i'll say again - if he is as good as you clearly think he is - why after all of these years as he never nailed a big job - apart from us, when we are down on our knees?

[A'Villan]

9 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Once again you don't seem to get the point and I think you are a little rude as well.

The facts are the facts - what more can I say? He has won 4 promotions in his entire career, there is nothing else to say - who mentioned how many years he has managed in the premier ??  Unless of course you claim years in the prem as a success  - which is a different arguement alltogether  Bruce's career runs out as a bang average journeyman with the likes of Allardyce, Hughes , Pullis, Moyes, etc.

i'll say again - if he is as good as you clearly think he is - why after all of these years as he never nailed a big job - apart from us, when we are down on our knees?

Going to chime in on this one. I think you're slightly undermining the likes of Bruce, Allardyce, Pulis and Moyes. Hughes I don't really know anything about.

All these men have had some degree of success as managers at the highest level in the world excluding the later stages of the Champions League.

Allardyce was set for the England job, Moyes got the gig to replace one of, if not the all time greatest manager in the game at United. Pulis has shown his worth, albeit at the relegation scrap end of the table. If you consider them to have achieved average levels of success then I wonder what you define as worthy of recognition achievement to be for a manager.

For me, even the likes of Neil Warnock and Alan Pardew have a case to be made as having noteworthy results in the best country for football in the world.

Bruce had us on 83 points last season (correct me if I'm wrong) and in years gone by that was enough for automatic promotion at times. It didn't pan out that way this time.

His football is far from aesthetic and I disagree with the above comment about him not really doing tactics because it was quite clear that a game plan was very basic.

That aside, he gets results. To land one of the top jobs is extremely difficult to do. We haven't had a manager of world class repute since Houllier. Before that we had MON.

I would say that MON isn't even that much better than Bruce. Bruce made it to an FA cup final and very nearly won it with a team inferior to that which MON had at Villa.

[Dave J]

15 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Going to chime in on this one. I think you're slightly undermining the likes of Bruce, Allardyce, Pulis and Moyes. Hughes I don't really know anything about.

All these men have had some degree of success as managers at the highest level in the world excluding the later stages of the Champions League.

Allardyce was set for the England job, Moyes got the gig to replace one of, if not the all time greatest manager in the game at United. Pulis has shown his worth, albeit at the relegation scrap end of the table. If you consider them to have achieved average levels of success then I wonder what you define as worthy of recognition achievement to be for a manager.

For me, even the likes of Neil Warnock and Alan Pardew have a case to be made as having noteworthy results in the best country for football in the world.

Bruce had us on 83 points last season (correct me if I'm wrong) and in years gone by that was enough for automatic promotion at times. It didn't pan out that way this time.

His football is far from aesthetic and I disagree with the above comment about him not really doing tactics because it was quite clear that a game plan was very basic.

That aside, he gets results. To land one of the top jobs is extremely difficult to do. We haven't had a manager of world class repute since Houllier. Before that we had MON.

I would say that MON isn't even that much better than Bruce. Bruce made it to an FA cup final and very nearly won it with a team inferior to that which MON had at Villa.

Would you not agree - that all of these names mentioned are now considered yesterday's men?

A degree of success what does this really equate to though ? You can't put this in a trophy cabinet can you - sorry don't mean that in a flippant way - but no one will remember this.

Yes I can see this deserved some acknowledgment but it only goes so far. As for Moyes - his pal Fergie got him that gig. Look at his record since and you must acknowledge that Utd have looked the other way for managers since then.

For me they are ordinary managers plying their trade - which I give them credit for - but to me they are average no more or less.

 

[wilko154]

50 minutes ago, Dave J said:

i'll say again - if he is as good as you clearly think he is - why after all of these years as he never nailed a big job - apart from us, when we are down on our knees?

It's exactly the same as footballers...

We'll use Dwight Gayle as an example. He's played Premiership football but wasn't prolific (good but not great), he now plays Championship football and is very prolific (he's a great player at this level). In the world as a whole he is an incredible footballer when you compare Dwight Gayle to the likes of me and you - he's a professional footballer playing football at a professional football club.

Steve Bruce is the same. At Premier League level he is a good manager, not great but good. At Championship level he is a great manager, he's proved this with achieving promotion 4 times. Granted his style of football (or lack of) isn't everyones cup of tea, but he gets results most of the time and knows how the league works. In the grand scheme of things he is one of the top managers in English football compared to the likes of me and you and will therefore always get jobs in football. But you are correct he won't nail a big job as Steve Bruce is Dwight Gayle and not Sergio Aguero.

[briny_ear]

Wouldn’t it be great if we had a thread about Dean Smith, who I understand has been our manager for some months now?

I do understand though that people will want to discuss Steve Bruce for many many years to come to the exclusion of all else.

Edited January 31, 2019 by briny_ear

[Dave J]

11 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Wouldn’t it be great if we had a thread about Dean Smith, who I understand has been our manager for some months now?

I do understand though that people will want to discuss Steve Bruce for many many years to come to the exclusion of all else.

There is plenty of room for everyone on here I would have thought ?