villalad21 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Merson08 said: During the period of his injury our record was 4 W - 3 D - 3 L. I didn't say JT didn't make a difference, i'm saying our defense by no means fell apart. Our defense remained respectable, this year especially under DS but also under Bruce our defense has been a joke. Edited January 23, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, villalad21 said: I didn't say JT didn't make a difference, i'm saying our defense by no means fell apart. Our defense remained respectable, this year especially under DS but also under Bruce our defense has been a joke. Surprise that since we went into this season with one left back, no left sided central defenders, only one central defender that was actually ours and zero cover should injury happen. Who would have guessed that's not the best way to build a solid championship defence? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 53 minutes ago, KentVillan said: What other clubs has this generally been positive for? I get the impression from stuff I have seen and heard in the media, and from a little bit of inside knowledge of the football industry, that the following clubs have done this: Man City: brought in a whole load of Barcelona backroom staff well before Guardiola arrived, and already had a lot of his training and youth development philosophies in place. Yes they have infinite money for transfers, but there was a clear focus on an intense, possession style from Pellegrini -> Guardiola Liverpool: Purslow arrived at Liverpool in 2009, and excluding the disastrous Hodgson experiment, there seems to have been some continuity from Dalglish -> Rodgers -> Klopp, not so much in playing style, but in transfer strategy (looking for underpriced younger players, selling world class talent like Suarez, Coutinho to raise funds, rather than chasing marquee signings) Leicester: this one involved a lot of luck, rather than a clear strategy, but clearly the foundations were laid down by Pearson and Ranieri continued the project. Southampton: have a read of this on Southampton's sustainable youth development and transfer policy, which has been going for years (Bale, Walcott, ... all the way through to Van Dijk) - https://www.footballwhispers.com/blog/analysing-southamptons-successful-transfer-policy Swansea - the current owners have ballsed it up, but from around 2007-16 they were the model of a club with a long-term vision. Martinez -> Rodgers -> Laudrup again brought a consistent playing style, and really until the club plateaued under Laudrup, they were one of the biggest success stories in club football Huddersfield - let's see how the new manager does, but they look to be another club overachieving because of sensible leadership Brentford - great moneyball approach to transfers and analytics has helped them punch above their weight - but moneyball works best if you know what type of players suit your system... so you need a consistent system Other clubs have achieved a long-term plan under a single manager - Spurs, Wolves, Bournemouth, Burnley, Brighton - so of course in an ideal world, we could do that too, with Smith seeing it right through to Champions League success. Of course a long-term plan can mean lots of things. It can be a stupidly ambitious aim to win Champions League in 5 years, or it can be a bunch of specific policies that are executed properly by competent people. A "long-term transfer policy" just means you buy low and sell high, so that in future you can keep reinvesting those profits in better players. That means signing and developing youth, and selling players in their late 20s / early 30s while they still have some transfer value. A "long-term investment strategy" means investing in good training facilities behind the scenes, investing in players' long-term mental and physical health, etc. All the small stuff that you can't see on matchday, but adds up over time to a successful team. Contrast this with teams like Villa, Man Utd, Newcastle, West Ham. What do you see with all of these teams? Lots of players with attitude problems, underperforming, no consistent style, lots of managerial changes, lots of rumours about problems behind the scenes. My point is that in a well-run club, the long-term plan and the manager don't necessarily have to go hand-in-hand. This is why you quoting statistics about average tenure of managers only proves my point. When you have a good plan for a club, it is set it up so that you can review the manager's job at the end of the season, with minimal disruption to the club - rather than having some huge panic sacking and then bringing in Tony Pulis. What actually is it that we have done that suggests some long term strategy is in place? Purslow arrival, director of football appointment, bigger focus on youth, clear playing philosophy... all the stuff that Purslow has been saying in interviews about why they brought Smith in, and what is happening behind the scenes at the club, e.g. Purslow at the AGM... this sounds like "long-term strategy" to me: “It was a huge priority of the new owners to clean up the financial position of the club. The first stage had been to remove the debt from the balance sheet. This has been achieved with the significant equity investment by Sawiris and Edens. The second stage is to reduce the operating losses, this was now being addressed with the aim of dramatically reducing the average age and average cost of the playing squad.” Is that enough evidence? I can keep going, but this is turning into an essay. And as I said, I'm not trying to defend Smith - I just think he deserves time. Sensible time to get rid of him would be summer 2020 if we underperform next season. Then he'll have no excuses. This is a great post. I really hope that we are embarking on own long term strategy. I can see that the majority of the clubs mentioned in your list were small-ish (with two obvious exceptions). I think any long term vision will have set backs along the way, progress will not be Linear. Smaller clubs fans seem to be more content with their lot and react better to setbacks. How on earth do we manage the expectations of our already dis-heartened support? We have already shown glimpses of what it may be like when it works which was great whilst it lasted. But the atmosphere just before Chester's goal on Saturday showed that the home support on mass are not ready to support a stumbling side finding their way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 23, 2019 There’s several individual factors regarding the defence this season that have impacted both managers, some that have already been mentioned. Johnstone is better than Nyland - hopefully Kalinic will prove to be a smart acquisition. We miss John Terry. Chester playing with an injury isn’t helping. Axel playing right back and then being injured. Missing the understanding between Elmo and Snodgrass on the right flank and also Hutton and Adomah on the left. Our defensive midfielders are a winning combination of being injury prone, inconsistent and the wrong side of 30 - the youngest senior player in that role is Thor and he’ll be 31 soon. Plus he has his critics, to put it politely. And yes, Smith is not particularly defensive minded and he’s trying to implement something that the players find hard to incorporate or just can’t do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said: There’s several individual factors regarding the defence this season that have impacted both managers, some that have already been mentioned. Johnstone is better than Nyland - hopefully Kalinic will prove to be a smart acquisition. We miss John Terry. Chester playing with an injury isn’t helping. Axel playing right back and then being injured. Missing the understanding between Elmo and Snodgrass on the right flank and also Hutton and Adomah on the left. Our defensive midfielders are a winning combination of being injury prone, inconsistent and the wrong side of 30 - the youngest senior player in that role is Thor and he’ll be 31 soon. Plus he has his critics, to put it politely. And yes, Smith is not particularly defensive minded and he’s trying to implement something that the players find hard to incorporate or just can’t do. Or he just can't pull a rabbit out of the hat when there is no rabbit in the hat (talking about the shit players). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Bruce also had Jedinak as DM. Nobody else has talked about him being a big part of the solid team last year. I'm sure Smith would prefer a mobile DM but compared to BB and Whelan he is a lot more solid. He's been injured though. With players as old as Hutton, whelan and Jedinak there comes a point where they are too far on their decline to help us the same way as they used to. Edited January 23, 2019 by praisedmambo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) This is the team that've beat Wolves. We're missing six of those players. Taking the bad period after Jack and Axel were injured we've replaced them with... Johnstone ---------> Nyland (much worse) Terry --------------> Bree/Hutton (what more is there to say?!) and only in the last couple of games Elphick (better than Bree/Hutton but not up to Terry's standard) Fit Chester ---------> Unfit Chester Jedinak ------------> Whelan/BB Snodgrass (a current Premier League player no less) ----------> An unfit, returning from injury Bolasie. Compare their stats. Snodgrass in 17/18—played 40, 8 goals 13 assists. Bolasie 20, 2 goals, 5 assists. Not terrible stats from Bolasie, but I think I'd rather Snodgrass Grealish -----------> Hourihane Grabban -----------> Tammy. The only place where we've strengthened. Last year, our good form came with Jack coming back from injury. He came on at half time against Boro, or near half time and from there we did well for months. Without Jack we were average-bad including some woeful results (Cardiff for example). The start of the season without Jack was a disaster. I know there are a few more players (Al Gazi for example) but these Lads and Hippos are burying their heads in the sand. Anyway, what's the point in this discussion? It's gone nowhere in days now. Edited January 23, 2019 by praisedmambo 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted January 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2019 I think we're underestimating how damaging Nyland has been to our season. He probably cost us around 10 points on his own. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I think we're underestimating how damaging Nyland has been to our season. He probably cost us around 10 points on his own. Easily, but cabbage is the root cause of the damage. His signing, his ineptitude, his stubbornness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: I think we're underestimating how damaging Nyland has been to our season. He probably cost us around 10 points on his own. Nyland played his part, but you defend as a team. He has flapped on occasion but he was overly exposed by those in front of him. Kalinic has a decent enough reputation and he has shipped 8 in his first three games, so clearly the problem is not just Nyland. I think attributing blame or points lost is dangerous, we have just not been good enough this season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheStagMan Posted January 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, hippo said: Yep - the truth sometimes hurts. The truth does yes, but not the random mutterings of a lunatic with an agenda since day 1. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: The truth does yes, but not the random mutterings of a lunatic with an agenda since day 1. Bit on Harsh on DS ...most people seem to like his press conferences 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) I think we should consider Steer if Kalnic doesn't improve. Steer did nothing wrong against Hull and Qpr. Edited January 23, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: I think we should consider Steer if Kalnic doesn't improve. Steer did nothing wrong against Hull and Qpr. I think Kalnic will be ok in time. But don't quite see why Steer never seems to get a shot a no 1 keeper at villa. He seems pretty solid to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, praisedmambo said: This is the team that've beat Wolves. We're missing six of those players. Taking the bad period after Jack and Axel were injured we've replaced them with... Johnstone ---------> Nyland (much worse) Terry --------------> Bree/Hutton (what more is there to say?!) and only in the last couple of games Elphick (better than Bree/Hutton but not up to Terry's standard) Fit Chester ---------> Unfit Chester Jedinak ------------> Whelan/BB Snodgrass (a current Premier League player no less) ----------> An unfit, returning from injury Bolasie. Compare their stats. Snodgrass in 17/18—played 40, 8 goals 13 assists. Bolasie 20, 2 goals, 5 assists. Not terrible stats from Bolasie, but I think I'd rather Snodgrass Grealish -----------> Hourihane Grabban -----------> Tammy. The only place where we've strengthened. Last year, our good form came with Jack coming back from injury. He came on at half time against Boro, or near half time and from there we did well for months. Without Jack we were average-bad including some woeful results (Cardiff for example). The start of the season without Jack was a disaster. I know there are a few more players (Al Gazi for example) but these Lads and Hippos are burying their heads in the sand. Anyway, what's the point in this discussion? It's gone nowhere in days now. These are the facts. I don’t know why those blaming Smith for our problems seem to be ignoring this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: These are the facts. I don’t know why those blaming Smith for our problems seem to be ignoring this. Even with those omissions...we should have enough not to get hammered by Wigan. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, hippo said: Even with those omissions...we should have enough not to get hammered by Wigan. ? Nobody is disputing that. We shouldn’t have got hammered at home by QPR last season or Brentford the season before eight. It’s not acceptable but these things happen. Edited January 23, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 hours ago, hippo said: Yep - the truth sometimes hurts. Yawn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, hippo said: Bit on Harsh on DS ...most people seem to like his press conferences Yeah, I wasn't referring to Dean..... but you knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 13 hours ago, Keyblade said: I think we're underestimating how damaging Nyland has been to our season. He probably cost us around 10 points on his own. You could put De Gea in goal and wed still be leaking goals like a wet sponge. The problem is the defence is failing, it isn't linking with midfield and our midfield are not doing there bit in capturing the ball often enough, to much damn sloppiness. You can't blame it just on one player, Nyland while he may have let in some questionable goals, he also saved some stunners to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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