Dean Smith

[briny_ear]

On 21/01/2019 at 20:31, av1 said:

Agreed. Hopefully McGinn will fall into this bracket in time, but Ashley Young was probably the last young player we signed that became a top player. 

Our scouting has been awful for a number of years now. 

Not sure how you’re defining your terms here but the names of James Milner & Fabian Delph come to mind - both after Ash, I think?

[KMitch]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

I have an idea why dont we employ someone to head up the playing squad, and take responsibility for non performing players, whip the lazy ones into shape ....

Have you ever managed people before, professionally?  Not talking about footballers, but just people in general?

I manage manufacturing/warehousing operations professionally.  You walk into one of two situations when you take a new role.  You either walk into a successful site and are filling the shoes of a successful manager who created/cultivated a successful culture/team or you're stepping into a mess without a healthy work environment and possibly filled with a lot of bad apples and no accountability.  They're both hard and present their own set of challenges, but the second situation is harder for most managers. 

The best piece of advice I've ever gotten in my career about managing people is that you either need to coach under-performing people up or coach them out, immediately.  You can't turn everyone around, but you need to set the tone and the standard and hold people accountable.  Some people are either burnt out at working there, have problems with their personal life and can't focus hard enough at work, some are too lazy and lack the character needed to work hard, but a lot just don't care and are happy to just punch a clock and collect a paycheck.  Not everyone will work out, but you also don't want to shoot yourself in the foot and let go of too many key people too quickly, otherwise you'll overload your existing team while you try to replace the ones who have left. 

Comparing this to football managers, you only have limited times/resources in which to change your personnel around.  For someone coming into a new team mid-season, it's tougher to make changes to your squad without losing them all.  If you start ripping into your senior players who aren't performing, you'll lose the dressing room and nobody will want to play for you.  You have to use what's at your disposal until you can make changes to the squad.  This takes good man-management skills, but even the best man-managers in football (e.g. Klopp for instance) will struggle to turn an under-performing team around immediately, without time and resources.  From my own experiences managing underpeforming teams, everything I've seen and heard from Smith and O'Kelly suggest that they know exactly what they're doing and things will be a lot better next year, after they clear out a lot of people who aren't going to fit in here.  I think the players themselves already know who is on the chopping block, but Smith doesn't have the squad available to him right now to bomb them out all together.

 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

So smith can be compared to fergie - but not Mickey Mouse.

I think he is so poor and so out of depth that people get protective of him.

whats he ever done ?

Compared to Fergie as he is a football manager, Mickey Mouse is a cartoon character.

From what we know of Dean Smith he has managed Walsall & Brentford.

What did we know of John Gregory when he was appointed manager back in 1998/99 from Division 2 (Today's League 1) Wycombe Wanderers at the time.. 

Equally, he hadn't done much in the game at the time except assistant to Brian Little at Leicester City.

The vibes I am getting is that everyone at the top level at Aston Villa today believe in Dean Smith to be the man to change the playing personnel from top to bottom how he see's fit and to take this club forward.

I think the fans also need to equally share this support and get behind him.

-If he also manages promotion this season on top of this then he will have worked absolute wonders and nothing short of a masterstroke to the point that it could eventually become a case of us worrying that he would get poached if he was to achieve such an accolade ontop of the mess he inherited.

Hope this helps answer your question a little.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

So smith can be compared to fergie - but not Mickey Mouse.

I think he is so poor and so out of depth that people get protective of him.

whats he ever done ?

We don’t know if he can be successful here, we will only know with time. But as I’ve said, people in a better position to make the decision than us have chosen him. We have got ourself into a position where we can’t cherry pick a manager from the top table. If we wait until an unknown becomes successful, for example Eddie Howe, it’s too late, we won’t be able to get them.  Who would you suggest instead?

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Who would you suggest instead?

My guess...

[baldivisvilla]

8 hours ago, villalad21 said:

That's actually laughable, at any level.

So the great Ron Saunders had a run of 2 wins in 11 matches, scoring only 10 goals, In 77/78 season, no one was laughing 3 years later.

[baldivisvilla]

3 hours ago, hippo said:

I have an idea why dont we employ someone to head up the playing squad, and take responsibility for non performing players, whip the lazy ones into shape ....

Just reading, "Odd man out" about Sir Ron, as someone who was at nearly all of those matches that are mentioned, you seem to forget how inconsistent his teams were in the late 70s. As a manger that would certainly " whip them into shape" i don't think it is as easily as said than done.

Great read btw.

[villan_007]

7 hours ago, hippo said:

So smith can be compared to fergie - but not Mickey Mouse.

I think he is so poor and so out of depth that people get protective of him.

whats he ever done ?

The list of managers that have won and done nothing as a professional but been successful managers is as long as your leg.

You're just making yourself look silly.

[hippo]

6 hours ago, baldivisvilla said:

So the great Ron Saunders had a run of 2 wins in 11 matches, scoring only 10 goals, In 77/78 season, no one was laughing 3 years later.

Ron had previous good form at his previous clubs. He had gained us promotion a few years earlier and won us 2 league cups by 1977/8 .......there was a good chance he would come good.

By contrast Smith has got Brentford 9th

 

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

Ron had previous good form at his previous clubs. He had gained us promotion a few years earlier and won us 2 league cups by 1977/8 .......there was a good chance he would come good.

By contrast Smith has got Brentford 9th

 

What about Rangers taking a punt on Stevie G - never managed a club in his life.

Working out not to bad so far imo.

Managers need to begin somehwere in their careers.

[hippo]

48 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

What about Rangers taking a punt on Stevie G - never managed a club in his life.

Working out not to bad so far imo.

Managers need to begin somehwere in their careers.

I think Stevie G playing career might just shade Smiths

of course they do.

I just rather they didn't learn the ropes at Aston Villa.  If we keep appointing managers of Dean smiths calibre we are going to be in this league a very long time.

Edited January 23, 2019 by hippo

[AvfcRigo82]

18 minutes ago, hippo said:

I think Stevie G playing career might just shade Smiths

of course they do.

I just rather they didn't learn the ropes at Aston Villa.  If we keep appointing managers of Dean smiths calibre we are going to be in this league a very long time.

Who else would we have attracted?

Baring in mind the ageing squad with low contracts, the peanuts of parachute money remaining and FFP restraints, It would have been hard to attract anyone of decent significance.

Aston Villa is a huge club and a daunting task for many a manager and that's before you take into account the restraints outlined above.

I wouldn't say Smith is learning the ropes of management since he has had managed two clubs before Villa - One of which we could never seem to get a result against ever and so I think we need to get behind Dean since he has seen us a challenge that many a manager may have shirked away from.

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by AvfcRigo82

[hippo]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Who else would we have attracted?

Baring in mind the ageing squad with low contracts, the peanuts of parachute money remaining and FFP restraints, It would have been hard to attract anyone of decent significance.

Aston Villa is a huge club and a daunting task for many a manager and that's before you take into account the restraints outlined above.

I think we need to get behind Dean since he has seen us a challenge that many a manager may have shirked away from.

I agree attracting someone mid season has never been easy.

Unfortunately that doesn't make DS a good manager.  Somehow we have to break the cycle of bang average managers - Look who got us promoted last time we got out of this division.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, hippo said:

I agree attracting someone mid season has never been easy.

Unfortunately that doesn't make DS a good manager.  Somehow we have to break the cycle of bang average managers - Look who got us promoted last time we got out of this division.

 

You’re right. Back then we hired a manager with a superb record of getting a team promoted. 

Maybe we should have tried that approach

But on a serious note are you going to post about Smith not being good enough day after day until he a) proves you are wrong or b) gets the sack? 

You’re the new grasshopper mate

edit: come to think of it Taylor’s record at Watford was very similar to Bruce. 4 promotions, 9 place finish in top flight, fa cup semi final. 

We’ve let the right man go!!!

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[AvfcRigo82]

7 minutes ago, hippo said:

I agree attracting someone mid season has never been easy.

Unfortunately that doesn't make DS a good manager.  Somehow we have to break the cycle of bang average managers - Look who got us promoted last time we got out of this division.

 

Well clearing in the woods face Bruce making a swift U-turn from being ready to walk out on us to suddenly being the best man for the job then royally **** this season up, so the middle season thing does not matter that much on this occasion I would say.

How do we know he is a bang average manager? Hes had to walk into the sgit Bruce left behind and fair play to him for having the Kahoona's to do it as like I said, many a 'decent' manager would have turned their nose up at the job given the shit start Bruce has left us in.

 

I can't answer your final part as we have not been in the Championship before, but if I recall correctly it was Graham Taylor before being snapped up by England in 1988/89?

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Ron had previous good form at his previous clubs. He had gained us promotion a few years earlier and won us 2 league cups by 1977/8 .......there was a good chance he would come good.

By contrast Smith has got Brentford 9th

 

He won the two league cups with us, not before he came. They weren’t credentials that got him the job. Villa and Ron just worked, right manager, right place, right time. That’s often what happens in football and indeed in life. No disrespect to Ron, but his career before and after us was pretty unremarkable. For all the due diligence and theorising there’s always an element of luck. 

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You’re right. Back then we hired a manager with a superb record of getting a team promoted. 

Maybe we should have tried that approach

But on a serious note are you going to post about Smith not being good enough day after day until he a) proves you are wrong or b) gets the sack? 

You’re the new grasshopper mate

edit: come to think of it Taylor’s record at Watford was very similar to Bruce. 4 promotions, 9 place finish in top flight, fa cup semi final. 

We’ve let the right man go!!!

 

Well if people compare to Alex Ferguson, and say he is our best managerial appointment for 20 years - Then surely I can come on here and say I think its a poor appointment. ? 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

Well if people compare to Alex Ferguson, and say he is our best managerial appointment for 20 years - Then surely I can come on here and say I think its a poor appointment. ? 

If people say things like that I think you can even suggest they’ve lost the plot. 

Dont get me wrong mate.  I’m just messing about. By all means continue to say hes a poor appointment. I guess the regulars posters are just quite clear on your views of Smith by now. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

He won the two league cups with us, not before he came. They weren’t credentials that got him the job. Villa and Ron just worked, right manager, right place, right time. That’s often what happens in football and indeed in life. No disrespect to Ron, but his career before and after us was pretty unremarkable. For all the due diligence and theorising there’s always an element of luck. 

True - but if I read the original post correctly - The question was  that in 1977/8 when he hit a sticky patch no one was calling for his head. His good work prior came into play.

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

True - but if I read the original post correctly - The question was  that in 1977/8 when he hit a sticky patch no one was calling for his head. His good work prior came into play.

I can't believe your going back over 35 years to compare Dean Smith against in a game that has changed so many times in that time.