The NSWE Board

[blandy]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

The world where, I can tell the difference between a  good player and a bad one.

We'd all like to think we can, TRO. Truth is, most of us can look at an outstanding player and recognise that. We can see a player play badly and recognise that. We can see natural talent. So far so good. But there are numerous examples where we get it wrong. We get more wrong than people with a better eye - people with more than just a "fan" background. We can't tell if someone from abroad will settle, we can't tell if someone from abroad, or non-local will gel with teammates or manager. It's these things where Recruitment staff earn their money.

Ellis claiming to have "spotted" Dwight Yorke (which GT said was rubbish, anyway), or basically signing Ginola from a beach chat does not make him a good talent spotter, or somehow better than our current scouting and recruiting people. It's laughable. And value for money - Ellis. No. Tightwad - knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. The tales are, as you well know, legendary of his penny pinching being counter productive.

 

[villa4europe]

Why has more Ellis revisionism been chucked in? 

If you want to compare him with the current owners where do you start, penny pinching, not signing players, what he did to villa Park, or my personal favourite which people seem to forget... The selling of the European Cup winning team... 

So which of those do the current owners compare unfavourably with? 

[villa4europe]

As for NSWE... 

You could argue that when football finally comes back the level of interest that comes with it could increase, depending on how badly they mess up the decision making the PL could even go through a bit of rejuvenation in this country at least, maybe the same with European football, I think they'll shoe horn in some changes while they can and some of them might be good for once 

I do just hope that if we get shafted they are very vocal on it, that was Lerner's biggest flaw imo, not noisy enough, I can see purslow doing it, hope these 2 chuck their weight behind him too, we might get a sense of just how big a club we still are (or not...) if the PL make some decisions that don't go our way 

[AntrimBlack]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Its great having money......but there is no substitute for good decision making.

so far these money men have come up short on miserly uncle Herbert in terms of value for money.

Its funny really, even he had more idea of a decent signing than these directors of football.

 

Oh, Tro. I cannot agree with this. How can you mention these guys in the same breath as Ellis. We have never recovered from his tenure.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

What's that got to do with the owners?

Pathetic foot stamping.

Surely the owners underwrite the policy, put forward, by Suso, purslow and smith.

questions need to be raised, if they already haven't been....a huge amount has been spent on potential and so far, not much potential has been realised, so far.

its not foot stamping, what a poor retort.....its legitimate questioning.

Many of our owners have been questioned over the years, its quite natural, under such circumstances to do so....the questioning is to their benefit.

Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

We'd all like to think we can, TRO. Truth is, most of us can look at an outstanding player and recognise that. We can see a player play badly and recognise that. We can see natural talent. So far so good. But there are numerous examples where we get it wrong. We get more wrong than people with a better eye - people with more than just a "fan" background. We can't tell if someone from abroad will settle, we can't tell if someone from abroad, or non-local will gel with teammates or manager. It's these things where Recruitment staff earn their money.

Ellis claiming to have "spotted" Dwight Yorke (which GT said was rubbish, anyway), or basically signing Ginola from a beach chat does not make him a good talent spotter, or somehow better than our current scouting and recruiting people. It's laughable. And value for money - Ellis. No. Tightwad - knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. The tales are, as you well know, legendary of his penny pinching being counter productive.

 

Well, if i can't tell the difference Pete, i've wasted a lot of money.

Pete, it was said with tongue in cheek, but i still think he had an idea of a decent player.

despite his irritating persona.

yeah, i get all that.....no we can't tell if a player from abroad will settle, and i guess even the pro's struggle with that too.....thats why we are fans and don't work at the club.

we look at other clubs for comparisons and see how well they have done with more modest resource....sure teams get lucky, but some have consistently good decisions in evidence...like we did at one time.

you must know my frustration by now and the sort of players, i think we have failed to bring in, are not the ones to cost big money.....if Jack was at another club and i was asking for him, then i would expect ridicule......I'm talking about our reluctance to go for players like Burnley and Sheff Utd have done, who have ability to fight ,scrap and stop the opposition having their own way...These players are around at modest fee's but they have to be spotted and integrated in to a team effort.....like Wilder and Dyche have.

I will take you back in time to the late 70's and early 80's....prior to that we was turning over managers like wild fire....Ron lasted 8 years because his philosophy was right and right for a club, with not much money...Liverpool, was still a powerhouse and Man Utd and Arsenal were no slouches either....we wasn't technically the best and more importantly, didn't try to be....but they had method and more importantly workrate and desire, they had conviction and belief.....we lost Deehan, Gray & Gidman all in one window, it looked like armageddon....but we soon replaced them with, Withe, Swain etc

nothing was going to derail this outlook.

In those days, we knew what we wanted....and when you do, its amazing how easy it is to get it.....being decisive and focused in the end product is key.

Personally, i think we are trying to sign too technical a player in our approach.....signing race horses, when we need a few cart horses.....pardon the pun, it is horses for courses and i think that is what we haven't got quite right.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said:

Oh, Tro. I cannot agree with this. How can you mention these guys in the same breath as Ellis. We have never recovered from his tenure.

I think it depends what context you take it in.....yeah i do think we had better value for money under him....he hadn't got a pot to piss in,in  comparision, so we had to be better at talent spotting.....necessity is the mother of invention.

don't misconstrue how grateful, i am for the 2 owners financial support, but i guess paradoxically, i am sorry, that we couldn't spend their money better than what we did, in the summer...I want them to get people, who can....that is my point.

They will not keep pumping money in at the rate they are, we need to be supportive of that by signing well.....we are wasting their money.

it was not a direct pop at the owners.

Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

Why has more Ellis revisionism been chucked in? 

If you want to compare him with the current owners where do you start, penny pinching, not signing players, what he did to villa Park, or my personal favourite which people seem to forget... The selling of the European Cup winning team... 

So which of those do the current owners compare unfavourably with? 

Don't go off on a tangent, i was not trying cover the whole life and times or persona of Doug Ellis, blimey, i marched with Vfc to get him out......just merely saying, if a duff player was being planned, the old man, would have an idea....now that can be bad as well as good, granted.....but the old goat, kept the talent spotters on their toes.

I was merely highlighting that maybe the £140 mill may have had more scrutiny, with him....and more questions asked.

Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Don't go off on a tangent, i was not trying cover the whole life or persona of Doug Ellis, blimey, i marched with Vfc to get him out......just merely saying, if a duff player was being planned, the old man, would have an idea....now that can be bad as well as good.

I was merely highlighting that maybe the £140 mill may have had more scrutiny, with him.

Didnt he spend 7 million on Collymore and 6million on Balaban, thats about 30-35 million each in todays market

[TRO]

1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said:

Oh, Tro. I cannot agree with this. How can you mention these guys in the same breath as Ellis. We have never recovered from his tenure.

I am talking about one aspect recruitment.......not a whole and full on comparison....that would result in one taking out and one couple putting in.

of course, i am grateful to our owners....i just feel frustrated they are having their money poorly spent....maybe, it come across wrong.

Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO

[OutByEaster?]

I think it's very hard to compare recruitment in Doug's day to recruitment in the modern day - the effort that goes into it, the science, the resources nowadays means that it's much more difficult and much more competitive - and the level that the league is at has gone up to the point where you're no longer looking for the better players in England, you're looking for world beaters. It's just much, much harder now to make a difference - players won't come to teams outside of the top level - I don't just mean the elite players, I mean the better 15,16 and 17 year olds - it's a real battle to get those players out of the clutches of Citeh and Chelsea and the like. It's a whole different game. Apples and oranges.

 

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Didnt he spend 7 million on Collymore and 6million on Balaban, thats about 30-35 million each in todays market

We can always pick the odd exception.....i was just waiting for you to do it.

but McGrath, Yorke and Platt wasn't bad value was it?.....not to mention,Gray, Barry and Cropley....to name just a few.

Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

We can always pick the odd exception.....i was just waiting for you to do it.

but McGrath, Yorke and Platt wasn't bad value was it?

well they are 2 of his biggest transfers he made. If criticising current board for wasting money then say Ellis is more shrewd. Baros, Stone, Crouch, Thompson all round up Dougs 10 most expensive transfers

[HAL]

our current owners saved us literally from bankruptcy and the abyss they get alot of free passes in my eyes

[Tomaszk]

37 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think it's very hard to compare recruitment in Doug's day to recruitment in the modern day - the effort that goes into it, the science, the resources nowadays means that it's much more difficult and much more competitive - and the level that the league is at has gone up to the point where you're no longer looking for the better players in England, you're looking for world beaters. It's just much, much harder now to make a difference - players won't come to teams outside of the top level - I don't just mean the elite players, I mean the better 15,16 and 17 year olds - it's a real battle to get those players out of the clutches of Citeh and Chelsea and the like. It's a whole different game. Apples and oranges.

 

Correct.

It's boomer logic being dealt with here.

Some insist they are right no matter the circumstances.

[kurtsimonw]

I personally think owners are too much of an easy target.

The majority of owners are not football people, but ultimately they have to make decisions on who is bought in. If they bought in Purslow (who has a good track record), who in turn has bought in Suso (again, good track record) and Dean Smith (decent Championship track record)... then I don't think the blame falls on them if it doesn't work. 

A Championship club bringing in Purslow and Suso was fantastic work. They've spent a lot so far, while maintaining a very sensible wage budget. The work they've done so far is impressive, I'm not sure I lay any blame on them.

Edited March 17, 2020 by kurtsimonw

[blandy]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Well, if i can't tell the difference Pete, i've wasted a lot of money.

You and me both, my friend.

worth it though, despite.....

[BigJim]

Doug, Randy, Xia, NSWE, probably had/have less understanding of the game than the average fan who lives and breathes football. That's why they hire people who are supposed to know better to spend their money for them. 

Maybe the chain has been stretched a bit too far lately: NSWE hire Purslow, who in turn delegates to Suso...  Who knows what the problem is, but we've been chucking money down the drain for a long time now, at least since Doug's later years.  I don't think the record is getting worse, it's just that the amounts are more obscene.

[briny_ear]

8 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

What's that got to do with the owners?

Pathetic foot stamping.

Hmm. If the performance of the club and the quality of the players it has are nothing to do with the owners, I wonder what you think they are responsible for?

[kurtsimonw]

6 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Hmm. If the performance of the club and the quality of the players it has are nothing to do with the owners, I wonder what you think they are responsible for?

It's a silly argument IMO.

It's like saying owners are responsible for the success at all clubs too, they aren't. Owners are not usually footballing people. If they bring in people with a good track record (Purslow and Suso, in our situation) that's all they can do. If it doesn't work, how is that the owners fault?

The owners job IMO, is to do exactly as above. Bring in those with a good track record of success, and to put the money in. Our owners have done exactly that, there's nothing more that they can do. If they were more hands on, people would complain that they are meddling owners.