John McGinn

[KenjiOgiwara]

Surely the general idea of football is to win trophies. I'd rather we kept the few good players we got. 

The fascination fans has of selling great players for lots of money is so weird. 

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Surely the general idea of football is to win trophies. I'd rather we kept the few good players we got. 

The fascination fans has of selling great players for lots of money is so weird. 

Definitely, but there's nothing wrong with selling players if you get a good price and reinvest the cash well.

A lot of Villa fans are stung by the years when we sold Barry, Milner, Young, etc. and didn't replace them. Our model under Purslow and Suso will be different IMO - more focused on reinvesting transfer fees rather than just balancing the books.

Liverpool selling Coutinho and Leicester selling Maguire are pretty good examples of how this can work.

I get where you're coming from - the squad is a bit light on players who are really shining at this level, and it would be a shame to see any of them go. But we'll probably do a lot more business next summer, and then losing a player like McGinn might not seem like such a big problem.

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

Definitely, but there's nothing wrong with selling players if you get a good price and reinvest the cash well.

A lot of Villa fans are stung by the years when we sold Barry, Milner, Young, etc. and didn't replace them. Our model under Purslow and Suso will be different IMO - more focused on reinvesting transfer fees rather than just balancing the books.

Liverpool selling Coutinho and Leicester selling Maguire are pretty good examples of how this can work.

I get where you're coming from - the squad is a bit light on players who are really shining at this level, and it would be a shame to see any of them go. But we'll probably do a lot more business next summer, and then losing a player like McGinn might not seem like such a big problem.

Plus if I'm being honest mcginn has been a liability late in games and has probably contributed to us losing more points (along with smiths refusal to sub him off) than anyone. Once you get past 60 minutes he is too tired to run so he can't close down anyone or beat his man he is essentially worthless because let's face it aside from his pass against Brighton he isn't great at passing (part of the reason he gets so tired). So he loses the ball and he can't win it back. Especially if it is high up the pitch he struggles to get back and defend for example wolves after playing a hospital ball to Taylor (another example of poor passing) he jogs back as traore effortlessly beats Luiz and straight up stops running 30 yards from goal in a position where if he continued to track back could have easily got between traore and Jimenez and or the goal and made his life at least harder to play the ball.

On top of all this he is positional very poor and when we are attacking it leaves us with a massive hole in the middle of the park because our rcm decided he should play upfront negating his best ability dribbling and drawing fouls in transition. I have only watched 2 games live this season (I have watched all the others on TV or stream) but in those games it was clear to me that we were stuffing on the attack because our players mainly jack weren't getting the support they needed. I watched the Everton game and Burnley game so both alright results however I also think we should have put both games to bed and for me against Everton mcginn and trezeguet were the worst players and whilst against Burnley mcginn was decent I though at times he was crippling the right hand side of the pitch (because he was leaving them isolated from support from the Middle but dragging a centre half over between them and the goal) which is why it is no surprise that both our goals came when mcginn wasn't on the right hand side of the pitch. It left so much more space for guilbert and el ghazi/trez to exploit and create good chances I.e el ghazi goal or trez's cross. 

Now this may seem like I'm bashing him for bashing hims sake and I'm not saying he is crap but the minute the clock turns 70 and mcginn is still on the pitch (and it is close) I generally right off the game as loss this season because we can't keep or win the ball because he cannot close an opponent down and he loses the ball really easily. I think in future games we should play with 2 defensive midfielders with mcginn as one of them in the hopes that he decides to play a little bit deeper and support the rest of our midfielders. On top of that he has had 34 shots and only scored 3 goals a lot of the shots have come from outside the box in alright positions if he hadn't chosen to shoot it is really hurting our chances as well. We are wasting chances in good positions on long shots that either miss or are straight at the keeper. 

[lexicon]

17 hours ago, villaluke said:

yes as he has also scored against shit sides for villa against arsenal and spurs 

They were pretty shit against us for most of the game - especially Arsenal, Granit Xhaka is appalling. Up against City and Liverpool and even Wolves, he did very little. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

18 hours ago, lexicon said:

No worries against a team like Cyprus. Is he a bit of a flat track bully?

I think this is a bit harsh but he does go missing too often. He has these spells where he's not showing for the ball in good positions much and it's very frustrating. Combine this with him blowing out of his arse after 65 minutes and you have to wonder what the hell he's actually doing on the pitch at times. 

He needs more coaching IMO, people were getting massively carried away earlier on in the season and the links to United are hilarious, no where near that level. 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I think this is a bit harsh but he does go missing too often. He has these spells where he's not showing for the ball in good positions much and it's very frustrating. Combine this with him blowing out of his arse after 65 minutes and you have to wonder what the hell he's actually doing on the pitch at times. 

He needs more coaching IMO, people were getting massively carried away earlier on in the season and the links to United are hilarious, no where near that level. 

Being a flat-track bully isn't such a bad thing really tbf - if he can do it against at least half the teams we play, that's not too bad. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

You know when people are complaining about John McGinn that they are looking for stuff to complain about. Just nuts. 

[Laughable Chimp]

Man, I've finally figured out why Mcginn always looks weird to me.

His face has relatively deep eyeholes. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

45 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You know when people are complaining about John McGinn that they are looking for stuff to complain about. Just nuts. 

You think so? I thought he was pretty poor against Wolves. Not just based on the standard he has set himself but just in general.

edit: Don’t wish to start an argument but it’s kind of how people felt when people were criticising Jack near the start of the season. 

Both Jack and John have set high standards so when they are not performing it really stands out.  But neither of them are above criticism. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[MotoMkali]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You think so? I thought he was pretty poor against Wolves. Not just based on the standard he has set himself but just in general.

edit: Don’t wish to start an argument but it’s kind of how people felt when people were criticising Jack near the start of the season. 

Both Jack and John have set high standards so when they are not performing it really stands out.

Except Jack was actually good at the start of the season he wasn't really taking players on but he was still involved in everything we did with his passing and movement and was a key part in all our goals.

McGinn has been poor since and including the brighton game. On top of that he really needs to be subbed earlier in games and deans decision to not doing that is really costing us. Mcginn is an energy guy he is good when he can outrun players but once that is gone he is honestly pretty crap which is why once he can't run he should be off the pitch not risking himself with injuries or cards when he isn't adding anything to our game and is often hamstringing our attack and defense with his lack of mobility. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Except Jack was actually good at the start of the season he wasn't really taking players on but he was still involved in everything we did with his passing and movement and was a key part in all our goals.

McGinn has been poor since and including the brighton game. On top of that he really needs to be subbed earlier in games and deans decision to not doing that is really costing us. Mcginn is an energy guy he is good when he can outrun players but once that is gone he is honestly pretty crap which is why once he can't run he should be off the pitch not risking himself with injuries or cards when he isn't adding anything to our game and is often hamstringing our attack and defense with his lack of mobility. 

I agree Jack was fine. I didn’t get the criticism but I can understand fans expected more.

I though John was ok against Liverpool and Man City. Not his normal high standard but still average performances.  Against Wolves I think he was poor.

[KenjiOgiwara]

14 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You think so? I thought he was pretty poor against Wolves. Not just based on the standard he has set himself but just in general.

edit: Don’t wish to start an argument but it’s kind of how people felt when people were criticising Jack near the start of the season. 

Both Jack and John have set high standards so when they are not performing it really stands out.  But neither of them are above criticism. 

My point is that every single player we got will have ups and downs. If McGinn suddenly becomes a target of negativity it means people are just looking at shit to complain about. He hasn't only been good this season, but nobody has. 

[TRO]

12 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Plus if I'm being honest mcginn has been a liability late in games and has probably contributed to us losing more points (along with smiths refusal to sub him off) than anyone. Once you get past 60 minutes he is too tired to run so he can't close down anyone or beat his man he is essentially worthless because let's face it aside from his pass against Brighton he isn't great at passing (part of the reason he gets so tired). So he loses the ball and he can't win it back. Especially if it is high up the pitch he struggles to get back and defend for example wolves after playing a hospital ball to Taylor (another example of poor passing) he jogs back as traore effortlessly beats Luiz and straight up stops running 30 yards from goal in a position where if he continued to track back could have easily got between traore and Jimenez and or the goal and made his life at least harder to play the ball.

On top of all this he is positional very poor and when we are attacking it leaves us with a massive hole in the middle of the park because our rcm decided he should play upfront negating his best ability dribbling and drawing fouls in transition. I have only watched 2 games live this season (I have watched all the others on TV or stream) but in those games it was clear to me that we were stuffing on the attack because our players mainly jack weren't getting the support they needed. I watched the Everton game and Burnley game so both alright results however I also think we should have put both games to bed and for me against Everton mcginn and trezeguet were the worst players and whilst against Burnley mcginn was decent I though at times he was crippling the right hand side of the pitch (because he was leaving them isolated from support from the Middle but dragging a centre half over between them and the goal) which is why it is no surprise that both our goals came when mcginn wasn't on the right hand side of the pitch. It left so much more space for guilbert and el ghazi/trez to exploit and create good chances I.e el ghazi goal or trez's cross. 

Now this may seem like I'm bashing him for bashing hims sake and I'm not saying he is crap but the minute the clock turns 70 and mcginn is still on the pitch (and it is close) I generally right off the game as loss this season because we can't keep or win the ball because he cannot close an opponent down and he loses the ball really easily. I think in future games we should play with 2 defensive midfielders with mcginn as one of them in the hopes that he decides to play a little bit deeper and support the rest of our midfielders. On top of that he has had 34 shots and only scored 3 goals a lot of the shots have come from outside the box in alright positions if he hadn't chosen to shoot it is really hurting our chances as well. We are wasting chances in good positions on long shots that either miss or are straight at the keeper. 

Well, Analytical I will give you that....I am always defending SJM against the comments of my villa fan wife....she says much the same as you.

I think John McGinn is much like many of our players, in as much as they have good moments is a game, some for longer periods than others, sadly they also have iffy moments in a game.

I think a case can be made against every player in the team......We are positioned where we are for a reason.

Not to digress too much or apportion criticisms, but it seems funny we had an issue with RDM of conceding late on in Games, Bruce addressed that, (but took a hammer to crack a nut) and we have got it again.....Don't get me wrong we also had boring games under Bruce too and ones where we conceded easily.

I am not sure what the solution is, but I have my suspicions and in the main I have aired them in earlier posts.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You know when people are complaining about John McGinn that they are looking for stuff to complain about. Just nuts. 

I think that is disingenuous.

You will always get fans that are easily pleased and others who are hard to please and others in the middle who change their mind as a result of how the games go....that's fans the world over, we are no different.

Some of us are looking to find reasons why we are dropping so many points.....I guess we all want to stay up, so we are discussing amongst ourselves, why we are losing so many games....some are brighter than others to spot the reasons, some just don't want to admit it, some don't even know.

You could equally say, some folk are looking for solace, in amongst games, where we could have won....like citing where we have come from in such a short space of time.

both views have validity....but we have not come in to this division, to go back down, so we have to face up to some our shortfalls and try to improve on them....whats happened in the past has gone, We now have 10 games until the window, to do the best we can and the window is no guarantee, because we have to sign the right players to hit the ground running.

I still think we have it within our squad to make a better fist of things with a few changes to approach more than personnel.....but that's just my opinion.

 

[Laughable Chimp]

 

53 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Except Jack was actually good at the start of the season he wasn't really taking players on but he was still involved in everything we did with his passing and movement and was a key part in all our goals.

McGinn has been poor since and including the brighton game. On top of that he really needs to be subbed earlier in games and deans decision to not doing that is really costing us. Mcginn is an energy guy he is good when he can outrun players but once that is gone he is honestly pretty crap which is why once he can't run he should be off the pitch not risking himself with injuries or cards when he isn't adding anything to our game and is often hamstringing our attack and defense with his lack of mobility. 

I disagree. I thought it took awhile for Jack to really get rolling. I distincly remember him losing the ball at the tottenham game and that may have led to us conceding a goal. Yes a lot of what we did went through him but that doesn't necessarily mean he was very good, just that a lot of what we did went through him so anytime a move came off successfully, Jack was involved but if a move failed, Jack was involved as well. It took a few games before he really started flying.

Mcginn is like the opposite. Started really brightly than gradually faded as time went on. Perhaps no one else in the team really benefits more from Jack's presense than Mcginn,

Edited November 17, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

 

I disagree. I thought it took awhile for Jack to really get rolling. I distincly remember him losing the ball at the tottenham game and that may have led to us conceding a goal. Yes a lot of what we did went through him but that doesn't necessarily mean he was very good, just that a lot of what we did went through him so anytime a move came off successfully, Jack was involved but if a move failed, Jack was involved as well.

He was poor in central midfield. I said exactly that a lot on here at the time and got slaughtered for it. He has looked a different player after moving into a new position. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

33 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

He was poor in central midfield. I said exactly that a lot on here at the time and got slaughtered for it. He has looked a different player after moving into a new position

It was wrong you got slaughtered. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about any player.

I don’t agree he was poor but he was definitely not to his standard.

But I do now find it a bit odd that you think people criticising Mcginn as nitpicking. In the last 3 games he has been the shadow of the player we know he can be. He deserves the criticism in my opinion. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[TRO]

15 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Definitely, but there's nothing wrong with selling players if you get a good price and reinvest the cash well.

A lot of Villa fans are stung by the years when we sold Barry, Milner, Young, etc. and didn't replace them. Our model under Purslow and Suso will be different IMO - more focused on reinvesting transfer fees rather than just balancing the books.

Liverpool selling Coutinho and Leicester selling Maguire are pretty good examples of how this can work.

I get where you're coming from - the squad is a bit light on players who are really shining at this level, and it would be a shame to see any of them go. But we'll probably do a lot more business next summer, and then losing a player like McGinn might not seem like such a big problem.

A lot depends on the record a club has of buying and selling.

If you have more hits than misses....its a good policy to keep buying and selling.

 

 

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

He was poor in central midfield. I said exactly that a lot on here at the time and got slaughtered for it. He has looked a different player after moving into a new position. 

That is sometimes the problem with trying have an open debate.

We all want to talk up our players, but a jaundiced view can sometimes irritate the rose tints.

Personally I think Jack is a fine,fine player......but like all players,better at some things than other things.

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It was wrong you got slaughtered. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about any player. I

don’t agree he was poor but he was definitely not to his standard.

But I do now find it a bit odd now that you find thing people criticising Mcginn as nitpicking. In the last 3 games he has been the shadow of the player we know he can be. He deserves the criticism in my opinion. 

There again, I would call it observations.

Criticism for me, can mean ungrateful, and dismiss his his good play.

Its subjective I know, But overall John McGinn has been great in my eyes.....I just pick out his shortfalls in observation mode.