a-k Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Is he the Mosab Hassan Yousef that was working for the IDF and Israeli secret service as an informant and spy? The one that whilst being paid by Israel said Islam was like nazism. Which of course, we are all banned from saying in the other direction as that is literally one of the proofs of anti semitism. If he is, then whatever he says on that tweet I’d absolutely fully trust it to be fair and balanced and well worth a listen… yep. Did he say anything wrong? Isn't it biased to completely ignore what someone "on the other side" has to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted October 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 hour ago, a-k said: Did he say anything wrong? Isn't it biased to completely ignore what someone "on the other side" has to say? I don’t listen to or watch random tweets from unknown people or accounts or pay rolled spies on either ‘side’. I wouldn’t listen to his words if he was on the Hamas payroll either. I’m not convinced people on either ‘side’ should be given too much credence as if they have a side then by definition they cannot be right. There should be a free independent Palestinian state, no ifs, no buts. There should be a free independent Israel, no ifs, no buts. The detail is quite tricky, we can all see that. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I don’t listen to or watch random tweets from unknown people or accounts or pay rolled spies on either ‘side’. I wouldn’t listen to his words if he was on the Hamas payroll either. I’m not convinced people on either ‘side’ should be given too much credence as if they have a side then by definition they cannot be right. There should be a free independent Palestinian state, no ifs, no buts. There should be a free independent Israel, no ifs, no buts. The detail is quite tricky, we can all see that. Biden seems to push this narrative in the news tonight, thank God. It seems everyone’s had enough of the blood feud. Edited October 29, 2023 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 42 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I don’t listen to or watch random tweets from unknown people or accounts or pay rolled spies on either ‘side’. I wouldn’t listen to his words if he was on the Hamas payroll either. I’m not convinced people on either ‘side’ should be given too much credence as if they have a side then by definition they cannot be right. There should be a free independent Palestinian state, no ifs, no buts. There should be a free independent Israel, no ifs, no buts. The detail is quite tricky, we can all see that. I don’t think any of this is arguable. The issue has always been defining the borders of said states. Especially when Israel has been busy allowing its people to settle in areas they know are illegal and you’ve got idiot people singing about “from the river to the sea” nonsense that is basically code for you know what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 16 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I don’t think any of this is arguable. The issue has always been defining the borders of said states. Especially when Israel has been busy allowing its people to settle in areas they know are illegal and you’ve got idiot people singing about “from the river to the sea” nonsense that is basically code for you know what. Defining the borders isn’t helped by the daily theft of land, homes, businesses by settlers under the protection of the IDF. With the likes of the U.S. and ourselves unable to even hint that ethnic cleansing might be a bad thing. You can only hope that what we say in public is markedly different to what we say in private diplomatic and governmental communications. Israel is currently acting in a way that suggests absolute confidence that no matter how far it over steps the line, its international friends have its back. There appear to be two setttings at present, either life goes quiet the spotlight is off and Israel slowly takes more and more. Or, there is a terrorist attack and we all agree Israel has the right to defend itself. This latest loss of lives has to be the start of a genuine peace process where settlers are removed by Israel and rockets are removed by Palestinians. It’s a disgrace on the international community that its taken 10,000 dead for this to be back on the agenda. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Defining the borders isn’t helped by the daily theft of land, homes, businesses by settlers under the protection of the IDF. With the likes of the U.S. and ourselves unable to even hint that ethnic cleansing might be a bad thing. You can only hope that what we say in public is markedly different to what we say in private diplomatic and governmental communications. Israel is currently acting in a way that suggests absolute confidence that no matter how far it over steps the line, its international friends have its back. There appear to be two setttings at present, either life goes quiet the spotlight is off and Israel slowly takes more and more. Or, there is a terrorist attack and we all agree Israel has the right to defend itself. This latest loss of lives has to be the start of a genuine peace process where settlers are removed by Israel and rockets are removed by Palestinians. It’s a disgrace on the international community that its taken 10,000 dead for this to be back on the agenda. Agreed, Arafat and Rabin are likely turning in their graves. They pulled the discourse and discussion so far with willpower only for idiots on both sides to ruin 30 years of work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: There should be a free independent Palestinian state, no ifs, no buts. There should be a free independent Israel, no ifs, no buts. Indeed. However it does *feel* that the people who don't want the first is restricted to the radical fringes of right-wing parties in Israel and abroad (admittedly, some of whom hold an unfortunate amount of power) Whereas the people who don't want the second, while holding a lot less power, are a lot more common. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Indeed. However it does *feel* that the people who don't want the first is restricted to the radical fringes of right-wing parties in Israel and abroad (admittedly, some of whom hold an unfortunate amount of power) Whereas the people who don't want the second, while holding a lot less power, are a lot more common. I wouldn’t pretend to understand the politics of the Middle East, and all the various groups and factions and agendas and all that. You have to wonder if Gaza was less influenced by Iran, would it be further along the road to progress, or completely forgotten? Not a clue! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 You hear more than you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 29, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2023 6 hours ago, magnkarl said: It seems everyone’s had enough of the blood feud. I wish that were true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted October 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 12 hours ago, magnkarl said: It seems everyone’s had enough of the blood feud. I doubt the board and shareholders of Lockheed Martin have. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 9 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I wish that were true. I think those spilling the blood might have had enough. Politicians, high officers and the military industry in cosy offices might feel differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Has Israel intimated what their detailed and budgeted plan is for after they’ve extinguished Hamas? Highly industrialised military nations always have an exhaustive post conflict plan for what happens once the bombing stops. No way would we have had the positive results in Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq without that plan, so will be interesting to see Israel’s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Has Israel intimated what their detailed and budgeted plan is for after they’ve extinguished Hamas? Highly industrialised military nations always have an exhaustive post conflict plan for what happens once the bombing stops. No way would we have had the positive results in Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq without that plan, so will be interesting to see Israel’s. Turn all of Gaza into a defined military zone? Don't trust twitter about anything but if this is real it might give an insight to what the Israel plan has been for a while now. 2001... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Has Israel intimated what their detailed and budgeted plan is for after they’ve extinguished Hamas? Highly industrialised military nations always have an exhaustive post conflict plan for what happens once the bombing stops. No way would we have had the positive results in Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq without that plan, so will be interesting to see Israel’s. Did we have a "positive" result in Afghanistan?, Libya is still a mess and its has taken years for Iraq to "recover". I am fairly sure that "Highly industrialised military nations always have an exhaustive post conflict plan for what happens once the bombing stops", is a logical thing to state, but of all the recent conflicts there doesn't appear to be any evidence of a "plan" of what comes next after the bombing. The bombing and killing is the easy part what comes after is far more difficult to achieve especially long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, delboy54 said: Did we have a "positive" result in Afghanistan? I think you missed the sarcasm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, bickster said: I think you missed the sarcasm Yeah probably ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted October 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 The videos coming out of the bombings are the worst things I've ever seen. I do think they should be played on every news channel though, so that everyone can see what is really going on. Just hearing or reading about it isn't enough. I'll be giving my kids an extra big hug when they get home later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2023 7 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Has Israel intimated what their detailed and budgeted plan is for after they’ve extinguished Hamas? Halliburton offering beachfront properties? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 14 minutes ago, villarule123 said: The videos coming out of the bombings are the worst things I've ever seen. I do think they should be played on every news channel though, so that everyone can see what is really going on. Just hearing or reading about it isn't enough. I'll be giving my kids an extra big hug when they get home later. I'm the other way on this. I mean I agree it's harrowing. But I don't need/want to see it. I'm quite content imbibing my daily dose of murder and genocide through conversation and in print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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