Axel Tuanzebe

[Mazrim]

35 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think he's the 4th best we've got.

And we've only got 4.

Based on what? Hes only played once at his natural position, did well and he had to cover for Elphick and Taylor who were terrible. He's got to be the second best centre half. Elphick is a liability and Jedinak isnt even a centre half.

[Stevo985]

16 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Based on what? Hes only played once at his natural position, did well and he had to cover for Elphick and Taylor who were terrible. He's got to be the second best centre half. Elphick is a liability and Jedinak isnt even a centre half.

Based on he's looked crap defensively every time I've seen him play.

How can you say he's "got to be" our second best centre half if you'v literally just said he's only played there once, against a league 2 team.

If he gets a chance there and performs then I'll reassess my opinion based on his performances.

But anyone saying he's our second best centre half are literally just guessing.

[Mazrim]

I can say that because if he's worse than Elphick than he has no future as a footballer rather than be highly rated at Man Utd as is the case. And Jedinak, again, is not a centre half. Its pretty straightforward to me. Our CB options are terrible.

[carewjust4u]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Based on he's looked crap defensively every time I've seen him play.

How can you say he's "got to be" our second best centre half if you'v literally just said he's only played there once, against a league 2 team.

If he gets a chance there and performs then I'll reassess my opinion based on his performances.

But anyone saying he's our second best centre half are literally just guessing.

Using that logic are you not guessing he will not be good enough as starting CB? 

he has all the attributes to be a decent CB, his positioning lets him down alot at RB (which is understandable as it isn't actually his position).

IMO his pace will be a huge asset for the backline at CB. We've seen enough of the Jedinak experiment, time to give the youngster his chance (i do't count Yeovil as the entire team played gash).

[Stevo985]

55 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

Using that logic are you not guessing he will not be good enough as starting CB? 

Yes I am. I've literally said that I am.

But my guess is the absence of evidence. I've not seen any evidence to suggest he'd be a good centreback.

I have already acknowledged that may well be wrong. But it would be a surprise, imo

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Based on he's looked crap defensively every time I've seen him play.

How can you say he's "got to be" our second best centre half if you'v literally just said he's only played there once, against a league 2 team.

If he gets a chance there and performs then I'll reassess my opinion based on his performances.

But anyone saying he's our second best centre half are literally just guessing.

Yeah but he's young, from United and has a name that sounds exotic, surely that equates to him being our best player?!

[Talldarkandransome]

He's a centre back not a right back. We won't see the best of him until he's playing centre back

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yeah but he's young, from United and has a name that sounds exotic, surely that equates to him being our best player?!

I think it's more a case of, he's not the player currently playing CB so he MUST be better.

Salifou Syndrome I used to call it.

[bannedfromHandV]

57 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it's more a case of, he's not the player currently playing CB so he MUST be better.

Salifou Syndrome I used to call it.

Always thought it was the Reo-Coker Syndrome myself.....

[AvfcRigo82]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

If he gets a chance there and performs then I'll reassess my opinion based on his performances.

But anyone saying he's our second best centre half are literally just guessing.

So you are writing the lad off after two appearances where he has been played out of position.. okay.

I think you should reassess your opinion straight away as you are writing him off prematurely.

I agree he is our 2nd best centre half (if he is ever played there) and I have seen proof to make such a statement and I will stand by it.

No fault of the manager playing a CB ahead of 3 RB's, but we will not hear a bad word said about Bruce.

Tuanzebe out!   

[Mazrim]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yeah but he's young, from United and has a name that sounds exotic, surely that equates to him being our best player?!

Literally nobody has said that. Rather that we know how bad Elphick and Jedinak are, who cost us goals in almost every game, so why not play a promising centre half in his natural position? If he's not a promising centre half, why did we sign him?

[Mazrim]

1 hour ago, Talldarkandransome said:

He's a centre back not a right back. We won't see the best of him until he's playing centre back

Exactly. Its like somebidy taking O'Hare on loan, playing him as a striker and complaining he's not good enough to play attacking mid. Crazy.

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

So you are writing the lad off after two appearances where he has been played out of position.. okay.

I think you should reassess your opinion straight away as you are writing him off prematurely.

I agree he is our 2nd best centre half (if he is ever played there) and I have seen proof to make such a statement and I will stand by it.

No fault of the manager playing a CB ahead of 3 RB's, but we will not hear a bad word said about Bruce.

Tuanzebe out!   

I'd suggest you re-read my posts as you see to have misinterpreted them.

 

I have said that he could improve, I hope he does, he has potential etc. All I've said is that in my opinion he's not ready YET. Even in the post you've quoted I've said if he performs then I'll change my opinion. That is literally the opposite of writing someone off.

 

It's fine if you think he's our 2nd best centrehalf. You claim to have seen more of him than most people here so I'm happy to listen to your opinion. Genuinely. Again all I've said is I don't see it based on what I've seen of him in a Villa shirt. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen, and again i've said I would change my opinion if he shows me something to do so.
I just haven't seen it yet. If your opinion is based on what you've seen of him at Man Utd then that just backs up my point. I haven't seen anything of him apart from how he is in a Villa shirt, so how else could I rate him?

 

As for your standard "Can't say a bad thing about Bruce" nonsense. I've said over and over that I literally blame Bruce for this. IT IS BRUCE'S FAULT that we have to play Jedinak at CB because he hasn't signed a centreback yet. All I'm saying is I rate Jedi higher than Tuanzebe at CB so I agree with that selection. I'd rather we played a different RB than Tuanzebe and not have him in the team at all. We'd have probably won last night if we had RDL there to be honest, so again I blame Bruce for that too.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Stevo985

[Mazrim]

You've only seen Tuanzebe once (Yeovil) at centre half where most would say he was the best defender. His partner that day was awful and gave away a penalty. There's a massive clamour for Jedinak not to be used a centre half again because he keeps making errors that lead to goals.

So to recap. Tuanzebe has had one game at centre half and done nothing wrong. Yet hes number 4?

I dont get it.

[Stevo985]

31 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

You've only seen Tuanzebe once (Yeovil) at centre half where most would say he was the best defender. His partner that day was awful and gave away a penalty. There's a massive clamour for Jedinak not to be used a centre half again because he keeps making errors that lead to goals.

So to recap. Tuanzebe has had one game at centre half and done nothing wrong. Yet hes number 4?

I dont get it.

He's had one game at centre half against a league 2 side and looked ok.

I've seen him numerous times at fullback and, despite doing some good things going forward, DEFENSIVELY, he has looked very poor.

It's that last bit that worries me. The defending bit. You have to do a lot of that at Centreback, and none of the stuff he's looked any good at.

 

So based on what I've seen of him defensively so far, that's where I would rate him.
I've seen Jedinak look good at centreback vs Championship teams. I've seen Elphick look good at centreback vs championship teams (but less often)

I've never seen Tuanzebe look good in any position against Championship teams.

Again, I acknowledge that I've not seen him play CB vs Championship teams so if he gets the chance and does well then it will change my mind. But for me it's the same as saying Neil Taylor would be good at Centreback. It might be true. But until I see some evidence of it he goes to the bottom of the pile.

[lexicon]

He does plenty of good things defensively but he also messes up badly, as he's a kid learning the trade. That's why Man Utd have allowed him to come to us. 

[Keyblade]

21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

He's had one game at centre half against a league 2 side and looked ok.

I've seen him numerous times at fullback and, despite doing some good things going forward, DEFENSIVELY, he has looked very poor.

It's that last bit that worries me. The defending bit. You have to do a lot of that at Centreback, and none of the stuff he's looked any good at.

 

So based on what I've seen of him defensively so far, that's where I would rate him.
I've seen Jedinak look good at centreback vs Championship teams. I've seen Elphick look good at centreback vs championship teams (but less often)

I've never seen Tuanzebe look good in any position against Championship teams.

Again, I acknowledge that I've not seen him play CB vs Championship teams so if he gets the chance and does well then it will change my mind. But for me it's the same as saying Neil Taylor would be good at Centreback. It might be true. But until I see some evidence of it he goes to the bottom of the pile.

I think it's really harsh to judge a player playing out of position. By all means, say he shouldn't be our RB, but it's not enough to make a sounds judgement on his abilities in his preferred position.

Yes he made some defensive errors, but the defending you have to do at full back is not the same as what you do as a CB. I wouldn't be surprised if we played Chester, our best defender at full back next week and he got nutmegged and caught out of position a few times, or misjudged the flight of a ball. It's a foreign position, it's understandable. Doesn't suddenly make him a bad CB.

What we do know is that Jedinak and Elphick haven't exactly been covering themselves with glory in the position this season. We brought in a CB presumably to play in the position. Why not play him? "He's looked suspect at right back" doesn't really outweigh playing Jedinak or Elphick who are already firmly confirmed to be suspect for me. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Keyblade

[Mark Albrighton]

I vaguely remember Lee Dixon (I think?) talking about the difference in playing centre back and full back, how your positional awareness changes etc. I think we won’t see the best of Axel until he’s used in central defence.

Jedinak wasn’t awful last night, he wasn’t at fault for either goal in my opinion. He did however very nearly cost us a goal with a sloppy pass but was thankfully saved by Chester (and to a lesser extent Nyland).

Axel should be on the bench as our third choice defender, Jedinak be fighting it out between Whelan and Thor for the DM role. At the very most, Jedinak should be on the bench as an option for a defender if something has gone wrong during the game. 

We need another central defender.

[Czechlad]

I won't get mad at Bruce if he tries Axel at center back, and Axel fails in that spot. It's incredibly frustrating to see Jedinak start there and cost us points because that is not his regular spot. 

I'd rather have us try out Axel there sooner rather than later. You don't want to have an injury crisis in October and realize Axel can't play that spot at this level. 

[Guest av1]

8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Yes I am. I've literally said that I am.

But my guess is the absence of evidence. I've not seen any evidence to suggest he'd be a good centreback.

I have already acknowledged that may well be wrong. But it would be a surprise, imo

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, he may turn out to be crap at CB aswell, but it's difficult to really access the kid because he is playing out of position. 

I would like to see him given a few games at CB before judging him tbh.