meregreen Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Guaranteed that if this had happened at the other end, the goal would have stood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, bobzy said: FWIW, now that I've calmed down, it's probably technically the right decision. But getting there is ridiculous and it felt like they were seeking (even if they had 4 things to review...). Yeah I think the decision is correct and the tactic of standing players offside to act as blockers probably shouldn’t be encouraged. The main issue is that it took about 3 minutes for them to even look at that part of the incident and also that I don’t believe the decision would have been the same at the other end of the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Never wanted it, never been a fan of it, at the risk of sounding like I want a medal I foresaw all these problems years ago. For the sake of the game just scrap it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 12 minutes ago, The_Steve said: Even Gallagher doesn’t sound fully convinced - the rules are a problem when they allow for such subjectivity The problem is not the system, it's the people operating that obviously have an agenda, if it's at the other end the 3rd element is not even checked, infact it probably doesn't even go to VAR like Shaw catching Konza, it didn't look like much but look closer and he has obviously caught Konza hard enough to cause that injury which put him down, it's a penalty, or it would have been a stonewall penalty at the other end, that's the problem, the result of the game was manipulated, WHY? It's becoming obvious why. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: Yeah I think the decision is correct and the tactic of standing players offside to act as blockers probably shouldn’t be encouraged. The main issue is that it took about 3 minutes for them to even look at that part of the incident and also that I don’t believe the decision would have been the same at the other end of the pitch. A player is allowed to stand his ground, if anything JJ is the one being fouled and even then it has nothing to do with the goal so, the ref waved it on and told Cavani to get up, how is this clear and obvious. It is corrupt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: It's absolutely tragic but also hilarious how badly VAR has been implemented and is used. It's utter bollocks. It's harder to get it this wrong then it is to get it right and that's the baffling thing. this for me is the most frustrating. it's so simple. the below would take about 20 seconds: Ref: "have i made a howler here?" VAR: "well it's not clear cut that the goal shouldn't stand. there's a few things that might come into play that would take time to look at" Ref: "so there's no clear infringement that means we should disallow the goal?" VAR: "no" Ref: "on field decision stands then" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshVilla Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 It just seems to me that it's being used to desperately try to find a reason not to give a goal, rather than simply check to see if the ref has made a clear and obvious error. Unfortunately, there have been a large number of cases whereby the "bigger" teams are being favoured. I don't believe that we'd have benefited from a near 4-minute review had Utd scored that goal against us. I'm still not convinced that it was the right decision. Cavani does not make any attempt to get around Ramsey. It looks like he's purposely ran into him to get the foul. The line between standing your ground and committing a foul is becoming increasingly blurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: A player is allowed to stand his ground, if anything JJ is the one being fouled and even then it has nothing to do with the goal so, the ref waved it on and told Cavani to get up, how is this clear and obvious. It is corrupt I agree - but I do think Ramsey took a couple of steps to deliberately block Cavani. It was very subtle, but I'd have absolutely be calling for offside if the situation was reversed. It wasn't a foul, but he was offside when he impeded Cavani... which he did by taking those steps. If he didn't move, I think the goal would've stood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 minute ago, bobzy said: I agree - but I do think Ramsey took a couple of steps to deliberately block Cavani. It was very subtle, but I'd have absolutely be calling for offside if the situation was reversed. It wasn't a foul, but he was offside when he impeded Cavani... which he did by taking those steps. If he didn't move, I think the goal would've stood. Isn't that a contradiction of itself though. It's indefensible, had they not havxome to a decision to disallow it for that we would have been waiting another 3 minutes while they looked for anything to use, that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Caption this.... I'll start, "don't worry Fred, we'll help you and don't forget go in hard, you won't get booked pal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 the 3rd part as gallagher calls it occurred first... why would you not check it in sequence? because they've spotted it after and has cavani chatting away at him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Phil Silvers said: Isn't that a contradiction of itself though. It's indefensible, had they not havxome to a decision to disallow it for that we would have been waiting another 3 minutes while they looked for anything to use, that's the problem. How do you mean? They had (arguably) 3 separate incidents of "offside" to review (Ramsey's block, Konsa's(?) header across and potential flick from Watkins). I think it took too long - particularly in trying to analyse whether or not Watkins flicked the ball - but they should be reviewing all of those things and Ramsey did take action to block Cavani whilst he was offside. That's why the offside was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: I agree - but I do think Ramsey took a couple of steps to deliberately block Cavani. It was very subtle, but I'd have absolutely be calling for offside if the situation was reversed. It wasn't a foul, but he was offside when he impeded Cavani... which he did by taking those steps. If he didn't move, I think the goal would've stood. Ramsey issue for me was he was looking at Cavani and made no attempt to move, if he turned around maybe it would have been fine. I expected that to be the reason it would have been disallowed in the first place I do think it was a cop out decision as they went for 2 potential offsides first on VAR before they found something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, villa4europe said: the 3rd part as gallagher calls it occurred first... why would you not check it in sequence? because they've spotted it after and has cavani chatting away at him I'm not sure it really matters. As I say, the other way round, I'd be wanting an offside decision there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) They've created a rod for their own back with the "Clear and obvious" bollocks. It just adds another layer of grey and uncertainty where everyone is unsure on what should or shouldn't be checked. It's there so officials can hide behind it when they drop a clanger, and this is all part of the problem. They are more concerned with protecting officials than actually getting things right. The whole thing stinks and until refs can be held accountable for shit decisions, it's not going to get any better. Just scrap it for everything other than offside and violent conduct. It doesn't work and it's not fit for purpose. Edited January 11, 2022 by PieFacE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, bobzy said: I'm not sure it really matters. As I say, the other way round, I'd be wanting an offside decision there. yeah i think i can live with the offside decision, certainly more than the foul, the frustration comes from them taking so long to do it and it defintely feels like a get out of jail card, thats why it matters what sequence they did it in, it feels like they wanted to disallow it and were looking for something, anything and they found it also not 100% sure if oliver gave it as offside at the time, will have to see if the highlights show what hand signal he gives, im sure the commentators said it was a foul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 The decision was completely re-refereed and that's the problem, it wasn't clear and obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1.28 - his hand signal is for a foul not for an offside, thats what i thought last night, the offside thing which i think is probably correct has been tacked on afterwards which makes it even worse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: yeah i think i can live with the offside decision, certainly more than the foul, the frustration comes from them taking so long to do it and it defintely feels like a get out of jail card, thats why it matters what sequence they did it in, it feels like they wanted to disallow it and were looking for something, anything and they found it also not 100% sure if oliver gave it as offside at the time, will have to see if the highlights show what hand signal he gives, im sure the commentators said it was a foul Let's assume, though, that they thought they were checking for the 'obvious' offside and Cavani says "**** sake ref, I was blocked off - that's a foul!". Michael Oliver says to VAR "was there a foul too?" - they check that incident after the 'obvious' ones "no, no foul Michael... but Ramsey is offside and looks to impede Cavani. Go and have a look, see if you think he deliberately stops him" so Oliver checks the screen and sees Ramsey move across. Is that really an issue? Switch "Cavani" for "Watkins" and "Ramsey" for "McTominay". It's not a problem, for me. And yes, was given as offside. Oliver explains it all to Mings and gives an indirect free kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyg38 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Perhaps when defending free kicks we should always have one of our players run into any offside players as VAR insurance policy against them scoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts