The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[blunther]

2 hours ago, Pongo's Socks said:

Absolutely sick to death of this now. Was sat behind the subs as they were warming up on touchline last night, Diego scores, and instead of celebrating properly McGinn ran straight over to ask the subs if it looked onside. Then Ollie admits he didn't celebrate his goal properly as he's worried it'll be chalked off.

This isn't what football is about.

After celebrating the first which was ruled out, I thought Ollie might be offside so didn't properly celebrate either. Not sure why I go and stand in the freezing cold and get to bed much later that I'd like when I feel like I can't celebrate a late winner

[Pongo's Socks]

1 minute ago, blunther said:

After celebrating the first which was ruled out, I thought Ollie might be offside so didn't properly celebrate either. Not sure why I go and stand in the freezing cold and get to bed much later that I'd like when I feel like I can't celebrate a late winner

Same here. And I do think you appreciate how bad it is when you're actually at the game rather than on TV. Watching highlights this morning, Ollie and co should've been going crazy after a late winner, reeling away to the fans (remember Dougie against Watford?). Instead we get subdued high 5s and everyone watching the ref. It's awful, I don't care what anyone says, it's ruined the game, you'll never change my mind.

[HongKongVillan]

OK, so ref admitted to the mistake on Lenglet's goal, but is there still nothing to prove on the AZ goal?

 

Also, im i missing something. The media is jumping on about that Liverpool disallowed goal all morning. That to me was just a handball so yes of course the goal should not have counted. Whats the fuss?

Edited November 10, 2023 by HongKongVillan

[S-Platt]

34 minutes ago, Pongo's Socks said:

Same here. And I do think you appreciate how bad it is when you're actually at the game rather than on TV. Watching highlights this morning, Ollie and co should've been going crazy after a late winner, reeling away to the fans (remember Dougie against Watford?). Instead we get subdued high 5s and everyone watching the ref. It's awful, I don't care what anyone says, it's ruined the game, you'll never change my mind.

Yep it's getting worse you would have thought they would have sorted out the issues after 3 years!

I think it transmits to the fans as well these days you don't really see people letting go in celebration in case they make tits of themselves.

 

[lexicon]

56 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i'll take it out of the bailey thread and in to here

on what grounds? he's offside when the header is made, I'm not sure how they can separate that out in to phases of play, its one phase surely - if the header goes in he's not interfering i get that and don't have a problem with that - if the header wasnt on target and was a terrible header that went all the way back out to bailey would he be offside or considered in a different phase of play? he'd be offside

as i said in the bailey thread if the keeper had saved it rather than the defender would it be defined as "playing the ball"? no, he'd be offside, in my opinion the defender has touched the ball, he hasn't played it, they've blurred what i interpret the old law to be where that was applicable to shit passes and touches

the law is a **** mess that lacks common sense, common sense and simplifying football and playing like it should be in my opinion its an easy decision that he's offside 

They've admitted that they got it wrong 

 

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, lexicon said:

They've admitted that they got it wrong 

i know but im guessing thats on the basis of them saying the defender played the ball which is absolute nonsense

if luiz is 30 yards from goal, watkins is 5 yards from goal miles offside, luiz shoots, a defender moves to block it so the ball hits him and falls to watkins then the defender is deemed to have played the ball and watkins is onside? not a **** chance

the rule was designed so that if watkins was stood miles offside but the defender plays a back pass without seeing him there then he is not offside

the rules are broken because they're made by people who dont understand football

[bobzy]

40 minutes ago, lexicon said:

They've admitted that they got it wrong 

 

It wasn’t even wrong, was it?! Bizarre. 

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It wasn’t even wrong, was it?! Bizarre. 

The decision seems to rest on whether it's a clearance or a save, and if anything sums up what a **** mess the offside rule is, it's this.

[villa4europe]

34 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

The decision seems to rest on whether it's a clearance or a save, and if anything sums up what a **** mess the offside rule is, it's this.

yeah thats my point with it, if the keeper saves it then it would be offside but if the defender blocks it he's deemed to have played the ball and its not?

thats stupid

its also strange that I'm adamantly arguing that an offside villa goal was the correct decision 

[Davkaus]

14 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

yeah thats my point with it, if the keeper saves it then it would be offside but if the defender blocks it he's deemed to have played the ball and its not?

 

Well, not quite. To add an extra layer of wtf on to this, an outfield player can be considered to have saved it. If it's a "save" then it's offside, if it's a deliberate play such as heading the ball to clear it even by the same player, it's not offside. It's **** bonkers.

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/offside/

Quote

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately played* the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

 

Quote

*‘Deliberate play’ (excluding deliberate handball) is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

• passing the ball to a team-mate;

• gaining possession of the ball; or

• clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it)

If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, can be considered to have ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

• The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it

• The ball was not moving quickly

• The direction of the ball was not unexpected

• The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control

• A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air

 

Quote

A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

Clear as mud. When does a save become a clearance? Does a headed "save" not count because the ball doesn't stop? **** if I know.

This isn't really a VAR problem (though they were suspiciously quick to rule it out, suggesting they'd not really given it much consideration), when the rules are this much of a mess of course decisions turn into a farce.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Davkaus

[PieFacE]

Shove it in the bin already. They tried, it's failing and it's got to a point where it's taking enjoyment out the game. 

Unless it can be fully automated by tech then just don't bother with it. 

Or purely use VAR for violent conduct or something of an extreme nature. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by PieFacE

[Mantis]

There needs to be a widespread, organised fan movement against it. Not really sure how they'd protest though - walkouts of games or something? Either way it's actually a serious long-term threat to football.

[bannedfromHandV]

It is predictably killing the game, it’s making celebrities out of referees and destroying the outpouring of emotion that comes with football.

The worst thing to ever happen to the game, and it’s going nowhere because the people who make the decisions aren’t fans and don’t even get football, it’s just a cash cow for them.

[bobzy]

I'm still in favour of VAR.

The problem is the constant meddling of - and interpretation of - the laws of the game, as well as the award/non-award of really trivial incidents.

I know that "clear and obvious" isn't a thing, but I still think VAR should only be used when there's a clear mistake.  The fact that certain ones aren't given (Man Utd vs Wolves et al) is, again, the interpretation of the laws of the game just being wrong.

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I'm still in favour of VAR.

The problem is the constant meddling of - and interpretation of - the laws of the game, as well as the award/non-award of really trivial incidents.

I know that "clear and obvious" isn't a thing, but I still think VAR should only be used when there's a clear mistake.  The fact that certain ones aren't given (Man Utd vs Wolves et al) is, again, the interpretation of the laws of the game just being wrong.

yep, i've never been in favour but its at least highlighted exactly what the problem is

scrapping VAR to just go back to the refs being shit and the rules confusing isnt the answer

the answer is still the same as it was pre VAR - get better refs

[sne]

Nuke the entire s(h)ite from orbit. It's the only way.

[bobzy]

14 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

yep, i've never been in favour but its at least highlighted exactly what the problem is

scrapping VAR to just go back to the refs being shit and the rules confusing isnt the answer

the answer is still the same as it was pre VAR - get better refs

Partly this, and partly the narratives that drives football.

People are constantly looking for things like "contact" in a marginal decision.  It's a debate that should be had by fans forever, but an original refereeing decision made on the pitch allowed to stand.  That Newcastle penalty against Wolves should not be a penalty in my eyes, but the referee gave the decision on the pitch.  There's no need to get VAR involved to check if there's a tiny bit of contact that upholds the referee decision - it should be a very quick check to see if there's anything "obviously" wrong.  As soon as you're agonising over the slightest bit of contact for 2 or 3 minutes, you're inviting a heap of views - "never a penalty, VAR is corrupt", "VAR can't overturn this, there's contact" etc.

My view (and possibly the majority of others?) when VAR was introduced was that "clear and obvious" errors would be overturned.  Someone would just tell the referee "you got that wrong because it's a dive" or whatever.  It's the minutia of everything that's frustrating (to me).

That, and that offsides should be a quicker check than they are.  Oh, and they need to sort out the handball rule - it's a mess.

Edited November 10, 2023 by bobzy

[foreveryoung]

Already been said, but to put it simply, VAR should only intervene if the ref has got something clear and obvious wrong, as it was originally supposed to be for.

What is happening is Refs are letting VAR make all the decisions, even basic stuff, this was not what it was for, an if Webb was any good at his job, he would put a stop to it.

Another point is, from the start it should not have been referees doing VAR, they obviously don't like doing it, it needed to be independent staff with knowledge of the game.

[fruitvilla]

Two things

1) I suspect the intent is if say Dougie shoots and defender gets his foot head in the way and the ball goes to Ollie behind him in an offside position behind him then it is an offside. 

2) Regardless of what VAR says, is it not the on field referee's final decision that counts?

[StewieGriffin]

12 hours ago, HongKongVillan said:

Also, im i missing something. The media is jumping on about that Liverpool disallowed goal all morning. That to me was just a handball so yes of course the goal should not have counted. What's the fuss?

answered your own question in advance...

VAR as a concept/idea is good, but the implementation of it is absolutely atrocious. It feels like this is still the beta testing stage before we get the full and proper product.

What's the general reaction to it in La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, Eredivisie etc? It can't be as full of shit as the PL one is

Edited November 10, 2023 by StewieGriffin