General Election 2017

[snowychap]

6 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Thanks for that but I wasn't asking for data on unemployment rates as that's rather easy to find. I was asking Dem about his comment 'we had huge unemployment under Labour' and what he was referring to.

Edited April 25, 2017 by snowychap

[Davkaus]

59 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

How is this possible when we had huge unemployment under labour...

It probably has something with the utter contempt that tories have for a social safety net.

Job centre staff being encouraged to sanction claimants at every opportunity. Working tax credits cuts. The DWP's third party assessor's denying basically all claims for disability benefit and lying about the claimaint's condition, unless they put up a fight - we had a poster on here just a few weeks ago whose partner was going through this.

What option do you think people have when the welfare state transforms in to an adversarial process? They either have to rely on charity or theft, it's an inevitable outcome of the tories convincing people that there's a huge number of benefit cheats that are a huge drain on the nation.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Davkaus

[Davkaus]

And if you think it's bad now, there's about to be a very predictable rise in those numbers when universal credit rolls out across the country. The evidence is there that it's causing additional hardship compared to the systems it replaces, yet there seems to be no intent to fix the issues.

"Poor, and they have to wait 6 weeks for the first payment? **** it, they'll either figure something out or starve, that'll save us a few quid". -Some tory somewhere, probably.

About a decade ago, schools and businesses would hold food collections for the poor in third world countries. Now pretty much every supermarket has a collection by the door for people who would otherwise starve in our own communities. That's the big **** society for you. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Davkaus

[a m ole]

I am so sick of every Tory taking whatever opportunity they have to say "strong and stable".

[JB]

 

19 minutes ago, a m ole said:

I am so sick of every Tory taking whatever opportunity they have to say "strong and stable".

It pisses me off no end as well but to be fair, they've got the right idea. Regardless of the level of bullshit, they identify a message and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it. It doesn't take long for enough people to accept it as truth.

We've seen it countless times. The Tories always have a few well-scripted lines that they bring out when they're stuck for something of genuine substance to say. The Brexit campaign was another prime example. 

If only Corbyn/Labour could do something similar (with a bit more honesty). It's even more frustrating given that there are countless open goals that he's comprehensively failing to take advantage of. He's not just missing - he's not even swinging his leg for a shot and just letting the ball roll out of play. 

[HanoiVillan]

39 minutes ago, JB said:

It pisses me off no end as well but to be fair, they've got the right idea. Regardless of the level of bullshit, they identify a message and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it. It doesn't take long for enough people to accept it as truth.

We've seen it countless times. The Tories always have a few well-scripted lines that they bring out when they're stuck for something of genuine substance to say. The Brexit campaign was another prime example. 

This is Lynton Crosby's one (possibly even only) real strategy. 

It works brilliantly.

[darrenm]

Well Labour are certainly winning social media. Twitter and Facebook is just full of people supporting Labour and Corbyn.

On the Theresa May page it's just full of people ripping into her. Even on the Torygraph and Daily Fail pages the idiots get shouted down.

On neutral ground and Labour/Corbyn pages obviously it's just a whitewash.

Twitter had #publicduty trending where doctors and nurses were urging people to vote Labour to save the NHS.

I wonder how Facebook and Twitter can be skewed so much one way and polls skewed the other. Is it another young Vs old like brexit? Then will this new influx of newly registered young voters make a difference?

Edited April 25, 2017 by darrenm

[darrenm]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

This is Lynton Crosby's one (possibly even only) real strategy. 

It works brilliantly.

People are noticing it now though. People are already sick of 'strong and stable' and 'coalition of chaos' which seem to be the 2 chosen phrases this time.

[Chindie]

She'll still romp home.

And as for polls... You have to bear in mind that the gap between Labour and Tory is so huge it's unlikely to be in error, and that doesn't account for the shy Tory effect which always has a part to play.

And the obvious sloganeering? Some people see through it. Many many more will have it ringing in their ears in the polling station as a Tory landside is locked in.

[tonyh29]

22 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Twitter and Facebook is just full of people supporting Labour and Corbyn.

Well that's me convinced , I'm going to put my life savings on a Corbyn victory 

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by tonyh29

[Sid4ever]

11 minutes ago, Chindie said:

She'll still romp home.

And as for polls... You have to bear in mind that the gap between Labour and Tory is so huge it's unlikely to be in error, and that doesn't account for the shy Tory effect which always has a part to play.

And the obvious sloganeering? Some people see through it. Many many more will have it ringing in their ears in the polling station as a Tory landside is locked in.

See @Chindie this is what I don't understand, other than @tonyh29, the remainder of this balanced forum can see through the rhetoric and bluff so why can't the rest of the electorate.

Are there significant other shy tories who don't comment or is Villatalk a hotbed of socialism.

@tonyh29, I am sure you can see through the obvious click baits but just using you as an example of somebody who is not shy of expressing their political views.

[tonyh29]

15 minutes ago, Sid4ever said:

See @Chindie this is what I don't understand, other than @tonyh29, the remainder of this balanced forum can see through the rhetoric and bluff so why can't the rest of the electorate.

Are there significant other shy tories who don't comment or is Villatalk a hotbed of socialism.

@tonyh29, I am sure you can see through the obvious click baits but just using you as an example of somebody who is not shy of expressing their political views.

I'll be honest ,I'm a bit insulted that I appear to have been used as your example of VT's only myopic / unbalanced person  ...more so when I'm replying to someone who is convinced Corbyn is going to win !!

[Chindie]

21 minutes ago, Sid4ever said:

See @Chindie this is what I don't understand, other than @tonyh29, the remainder of this balanced forum can see through the rhetoric and bluff so why can't the rest of the electorate.

Are there significant other shy tories who don't comment or is Villatalk a hotbed of socialism.

@tonyh29, I am sure you can see through the obvious click baits but just using you as an example of somebody who is not shy of expressing their political views.

I think a lot of people see much of this kind of stuff for what it is. But the hint of truth sways, especially when there's not much coming the other way to balance it out.

I also think the population skews right easily. Things are crap, things turn right, even if the right aren't actually helping things. But they offer easy answers. And to be honest I think the UK, certainly England, is a right wing nation in many ways.

Labour could win this election. But they'd need to not have had Corbyn in charge for the past 2 years. They'd need to have had a very good, very sellable, pragmatic leader. Corbyn has a few nice policies and a few dumb ones that won't win anything outside a student union, but he's so easy to shoot down in the press, he's so openly hated by his MPs, he's so idealistic in a time where idealism is going to struggle, he's betrayed natural support by whipping the party to wave through Brexit, etc etc... He's basically lost the election in his own. May isn't a great politician, she's an of the shelf Tory with a power mad streak who reckons herself a Thatcher but is actually the knock off version with similar branding, she is detestable and defeatable. But not by Corbyn. Whilst he's there even people who should favour Labour, like me, won't vote for him.

So the rhetoric and slogans are basically slamming the headstone over the corpse. Labour have suicided. May and the Tories are crawling over the corpse.

[Sid4ever]

8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I'll be honest ,I'm a bit insulted that I appear to have been used as your example of VT's only myopic / unbalanced person  ...more so when I'm replying to someone who is convinced Corbyn is going to win !!

@tonyh29 I quoted @Chindie not @darrenm, I will apologise profusely if you feel I have insulted you, not my intention.

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, Sid4ever said:

@tonyh29 I quoted @Chindie not @darrenm, I will apologise profusely if you feel I have insulted you, not my intention.

Nah that's fine I sorta figured there was no intent on your behalf but it's nice to be sure

to sorta answer The question , it was  at the last GE where many of us raised the same feeling over slogans .... "hard working People " which seemed to be the buzzword of that election 

its clear that everything is done via focus groups and politics 101 .... I dislike it as much as the next person , but presumably for  a lot of people not that interested in politics it's deemed to be a way of getting the message across 

[darrenm]

7 minutes ago, Sid4ever said:

@tonyh29 I quoted @Chindie not @darrenm, I will apologise profusely if you feel I have insulted you, not my intention.

I'm confused.

But then this is the first time I've seen Tony's reply so it's probably that.

[tonyh29]

9 minutes ago, darrenm said:

I'm confused.

But then this is the first time I've seen Tony's reply so it's probably that.

Sometimes I confuse myself so it's not surprising we are all confused

[PompeyVillan]

1 hour ago, Sid4ever said:

See @Chindie this is what I don't understand, other than @tonyh29, the remainder of this balanced forum can see through the rhetoric and bluff so why can't the rest of the electorate.

Are there significant other shy tories who don't comment or is Villatalk a hotbed of socialism.

@tonyh29, I am sure you can see through the obvious click baits but just using you as an example of somebody who is not shy of expressing their political views.

To be honest, and I'm not being insulting but it think many people believe that the anti Tories, like myself, are exaggerating. 

They hear some of the things I perceive and point out as immoral but they don't see them. 

They don't experience them themselves.

I'm not being critical, I work with liberal but politically ambivalent people who have said things in a general sense like "Well things have been okay for me under the Conservatives". 

Or "When I last went to the doctors it was good". 

Call them "Shy Tories" if you want, they're not evil or selfish monsters that hate the poor. Just people who are probably not that bothered, and thought New Labour was quite"trendy" too. They might be slightly bothered by immigration too.

Then there are of course those that are ideologically driven by Conservative politics like @tony29 who eat babies, kick puppies, drive with full beams on at all times and steal from collection boxes.

 

[tonyh29]

9 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Then there are of course those that are ideologically driven by Conservative politics like @tony29 who eat babies, kick puppies, drive with full beams on at all times and steal from collection boxes.

 

Nice try but I drive an Audi and I know for fact headlights don't have any setting other than full beam 

[Seat68]

I am pretty certain that Rugeleys position in the Labour Party has become untenable in the unfettered Socialism of VT.