General Election 2017

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, dAVe80 said:

Having seen him speak on a couple of occasions, and met him, I don't get that from him at all. He took the time to stop and talk to everyone that wanted to speak to him, the last time I saw him, and was fantastic with my mate, who has been battling with the DWP as his disability benefit was stopped. He took the time to give him advice about his tribunal, and was generally a thoroughly decent bloke.

I think you missed the part where Sharky said "with those who don't agree with him.  "

 

 

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, Risso said:

Worse than Corbyn?  Come now, she might not be Churchill, but worse than Corbyn?  I'm not sure that such a politician exists.

[sharkyvilla]

11 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

I saw him speak at the Durham Miner's Gala, and the even where I met him, and he spoke to my mate, was the launch of the mayor for Tees Valley. I concede he has a lot of support in the room, but that doesn't change my view of him. You have the view you have of him, and that's fine. I know how you feel about him, and I fully respect that. I'm just saying how I see it. I'd say the time I've seen him lose his patience, or get prickly, is if he's getting asked loaded questions, or being damn right disrespected by journalists. Even then, I'd say he still manages not to be rude to his interviewees. That's my opinion though, and I can only speak from what I've seen of him.

Getting asked loaded questions or disrespected isn't exclusive to Corbyn though, especially in a world where every word removed wants to be Paxman.  There is undoubtedly a skill in brushing it off and making it look like it doesn't effect you.

[snowychap]

18 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

or not as the case may be ..

There is a whole world of difference between not accepting the 'overspent' narrative (as Miliband was doing in response to a number of questioners) and your memory of a refusal to accept some blame for the economic mess.

The gasps were in amongst a number of questions put about the whole overspending claptrap that had gathered pace in the last general election campaign.

My accusation of skewed recall in your post was in your description of what led to the issues with the audience and subsequently.

[dAVe80]

3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Getting asked loaded questions or disrespected isn't exclusive to Corbyn though, especially in a world where every word removed wants to be Paxman.  There is undoubtedly a skill in brushing it off and making it look like it doesn't effect you.

Well I think that's just down to the fact he's real. I know many people don't like it, but I find his lack of an attempt to be polished endearing, and is one of the reasons I do like him.

[sharkyvilla]

25 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

Well I think that's just down to the fact he's real. I know many people don't like it, but I find his lack of an attempt to be polished endearing, and is one of the reasons I do like him.

You must admit it's a bit of a turnoff for those who aren't automatically of the same politics as him though?  That's the issue here.

[dAVe80]

Just now, sharkyvilla said:

You must admit it's a bit of a turnoff for those who aren't automatically of the same politics as him though?  That's the issue here.

It's an issue for those people, yes. Like May being an absolute word removed is an issue for me.

[tonyh29]

14 minutes ago, snowychap said:

There is a whole world of difference between not accepting the 'overspent' narrative (as Miliband was doing in response to a number of questioners) and your memory of a refusal to accept some blame for the economic mess.

The gasps were in amongst a number of questions put about the whole overspending claptrap that had gathered pace in the last general election campaign.

My accusation of skewed recall in your post was in your description of what led to the issues with the audience and subsequently.

the Guardian article I quoted suggests those gasps differently to you ..maybe I'm not the only one skewed ... perhaps a strongly worded letter to the Editor is required ?

I'll concede that  "Do you accept that when Labour was last in power, it overspent" , isn't the same thing as my phrasing it as " accept some blame for the economic mess"  .. but as a generic sentence inside my post it was close enough to give the gist of the point I was making that the TV show  damaged him .. put it that way it was close enough for Chindie to reply with "I'd agree " , not 2 words I see from him very often

 

[a m ole]

21 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

Well I think that's just down to the fact he's real. I know many people don't like it, but I find his lack of an attempt to be polished endearing, and is one of the reasons I do like him.

I agree with you, but unfortunately that character isn't going to win over the electorate. It's very frustrating. I've come to accept that Corbyn just won't win over enough of the general public.

A character like Emmanuel Macron could bring a halt to the shift towards the far right, even if he is a bit too 'Tony Blair'.

[dAVe80]

Just now, a m ole said:

I agree with you, but unfortunately that character isn't going to win over the electorate. It's very frustrating. I've come to accept that Corbyn just won't win over enough of the general public.

A character like Emmanuel Macron could bring a halt to the shift towards the far right, even if he is a bit too 'Tony Blair'.

Are you not sick of it though? The person who wins is wearing the nicest suit, and says the things they think people want to hear, regardless of if they believe in it or not. I don't want to play that game any more, so I'm backing the guy I like the most. The guy I agree with the most. The guy I respect the most. If he doesn't win, then I'll take stock, and decide what to do next.

[a m ole]

Just now, dAVe80 said:

Are you not sick of it though? The person who wins is wearing the nicest suit, and says the things they think people want to hear, regardless of if they believe in it or not. I don't want to play that game any more, so I'm backing the guy I like the most. The guy I agree with the most. The guy I respect the most. If he doesn't win, then I'll take stock, and decide what to do next.

I am, to the back teeth. and i wish i could alter people's viewpoints and i wish they could see through the facade and i wish mainstream media wouldn't pander to it and allow the circus to roll on, but none of those things are going to happen. I still don't know who i'm going to vote for, although obviously Anyone But Conservative. Probably the best option for now is anything that would take seats from the Tories so tactical votes for anyone who feels the same seems sensible to me.

[snowychap]

9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

the Guardian article I quoted suggests those gasps differently to you ..maybe I'm not the only one skewed

I went and rewatched the section of the TV programme where it happened.

10 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I'll concede that  "Do you accept that when Labour was last in power, it overspent" , isn't the same thing as my phrasing it as " accept some blame for the economic mess"  .. but as a generic sentence inside my post it was close enough to give the gist of the point I was making that the TV show  damaged him

You weren't simply making a point that the TV show damaged him but you also said that his refusal to accept some blame for the economic mess definitely damaged him.

It wasn't a 'generic sentence' - it mirrored an entire section of campaigning in the last election that followed a Tory-led narrative about overspending and profligacy under Labour being at the heart of all the economic woes suffered in 2008 and afterwards.

[tonyh29]

14 hours ago, snowychap said:

I went and rewatched the section of the TV programme where it happened.

You weren't simply making a point that the TV show damaged him but you also said that his refusal to accept some blame for the economic mess definitely damaged him.

It wasn't a 'generic sentence' - it mirrored an entire section of campaigning in the last election that followed a Tory-led narrative about overspending and profligacy under Labour being at the heart of all the economic woes suffered in 2008 and afterwards.

The whole conversation was  around TV debates , I think you are skewed with your view of what I've written

it WAS a generic sentence , I know cause I wrote it and you didn't . I understand the desire to pick posts apart , that's fair game , but ... if anyone  thinks I'm working off some narrative or script then they  should probably go get help ... and my script writer English lessons

read back at what I said , the whole post  was about why I could understand Corbyn not doing a T.V show , same point I said about May a few days previously , perhaps they've come to the conclusion there is more to lose than gain by doing such a show ... the very next reply after mine seem to suggest   a small form of agreement , though not with everything I'd said 

[chrisp65]

The leaders of both main parties deciding they have more to lose than gain by being heard talking about their politics for more than a controlled sound bite.

We are living through an absolute shit stain on the history of politics in this country.

Nancy Astor, Nye Bevan, Gwynfor Evans, Charlie Kennedy, Alf Dubs, Thomas Buxton and hundreds of others, and stood on their shoulders, that pair.

Then we all debate the rise of 'populism'.

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

Clive Lewis

 

2 hours ago, Jon said:

He's the man. Just such a shame we're going to be landed with 5 more years of May before he'll get  a GE chance.  

First he has to avoid the decidedly non-trivial risk of losing his seat. 

[sharkyvilla]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

First he has to avoid the decidedly non-trivial risk of losing his seat. 

Haha I hadn't thought of that.  To be fair Norwich South voted remain and he has a big majority over the Lib Dems in second, so he should be ok.

[a m ole]

38 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

The leaders of both main parties deciding they have more to lose than gain by being heard talking about their politics for more than a controlled sound bite.

We are living through an absolute shit stain on the history of politics in this country.

Nancy Astor, Nye Bevan, Gwynfor Evans, Charlie Kennedy, Alf Dubs, Thomas Buxton and hundreds of others, and stood on their shoulders, that pair.

Then we all debate the rise of 'populism'.

 

 

 

Would have been a great time for him to be around and in good health.

[jon_c]

10 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

Haha I hadn't thought of that.  To be fair Norwich South voted remain and he has a big majority over the Lib Dems in second, so he should be ok.

Sorry, are Labour meant to appeal to remain voters, or to leave voters?

I thought they were worried about losing heavily remain seats.

[TrentVilla]

16 minutes ago, jon_c said:

Sorry, are Labour meant to appeal to remain voters, or to leave voters?

I thought they were worried about losing heavily remain seats.

I'm not sure they've figured that out themselves yet.

[Rodders]

more psychotic abuse from the tories again over Corbyn. Charming. full on american attack mode this. For someone apparently so far behind in the polls it seems remarkably unnecessary. Boris with the latest invective today. What a depressing campaign this is going to be. That Cosby chaps influence - or just the inherent nature of the party themselves anyway?