bickster Posted May 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2022 This appears to very under-reported and may have played a part in the change of rhetoric The story appears to have originated ib the paywalled New York Times but has been repeated on other sites Quote [...]In Moscow, where Mr. Putin convened a meeting of Russia’s answer to NATO — the six-member Collective Security Treaty Organization — only one member, Belarus, spoke up to support him on Ukraine. It was supposed to be a celebratory meeting to commemorate the group’s founding 30 years ago. But it turned into a demonstration of discord among some of Mr. Putin’s friendly neighbors. Speaking first in the televised portion of the summit, President Aleksandr G. Lukashenko of Belarus — who has supported Mr. Putin’s war but has not sent troops — criticized other members for having insufficiently backed Russia and Belarus in the face of Western sanctions. [...] [...]“Are we just as connected by bonds of solidarity and support now?” he asked, after mentioning the alliance’s support of the Kazakh government. “Maybe I’m wrong, but as recent events have shown, it seems the answer is no.” Kazakhstan has said it would not help Russia circumvent international sanctions. In a United Nations vote on March 2 condemning the invasion of Ukraine, Belarus was the only post-Soviet country to take Russia’s side. “Look at how monolithically the European Union votes and acts,” Mr. Lukashenko said at Monday’s summit, sitting at a round table with the other leaders. “If we are separate, we’ll just be crushed and torn apart.” As if to confirm Mr. Lukashenko’s point, the leaders of the other members — Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan — did not mention Ukraine in their televised remarks. The Ukraine invasion has put those countries in a tough spot. They all have close economic and military ties to Russia, but Mr. Putin’s invasion of a sovereign neighbor sets a foreboding precedent for countries looking to diversify their foreign policy beyond Moscow.[...] For context it needs to be realised that this was a live televised event and 4 of the six countries in the CSTO did not mention Ukraine in their addresses at all. Lukashenko publically criticising the other 4 countries will actually have served to ram the point home, which is not what he was trying to achieve but he is idiot so that will hardly be a shock. Not only that but he didn't send his own troops either, there were many rumours the military of Belarus actually refused to go and refused to go from the very top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2022 Oh and in other news. The Russians fired S-300 anti-aircraft missiles at Israeli aircraft on a mission in Syria, something which they've never done before. As much as Russia has been protecting Assad, they haven't intervened in Israeli operations there before. Another sign that Russia is becoming icreasingly isolated, even the Russian State talking head in AWOL's post, acknowledged that even China and India have only spoken in support but not actually acted in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 On Swedish radio this morning it was said that Turkey probably are after the embargos against them lifted. Found an article on the subject here. https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-nato/turkey-laments-arms-embargo-nato-allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 12 hours ago, Awol said: When Russian state TV’s professional propagandists start taking this line, Putin should be bricking it. Wow. The final sentence says it all. He knows they need an out. I actually think he's choosing his words very carefully and not to say 'this thing is a complete f***** shambles' as he knows that ends with a bullet in his skull. You only have to read between the lines and look at the expression on his face to know that he thinks IT IS a complete f***** shambles and that Russia are losing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 4 hours ago, bickster said: This appears to very under-reported and may have played a part in the change of rhetoric The story appears to have originated ib the paywalled New York Times but has been repeated on other sites For context it needs to be realised that this was a live televised event and 4 of the six countries in the CSTO did not mention Ukraine in their addresses at all. Lukashenko publically criticising the other 4 countries will actually have served to ram the point home, which is not what he was trying to achieve but he is idiot so that will hardly be a shock. Not only that but he didn't send his own troops either, there were many rumours the military of Belarus actually refused to go and refused to go from the very top. I did not know that. Interesting shows how isolated Vlad is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 12 hours ago, Awol said: When Russian state TV’s professional propagandists start taking this line, Putin should be bricking it. She's as annoying as Kay Burley. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 17, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2022 12 hours ago, Awol said: When Russian state TV’s professional propagandists start taking this line, Putin should be bricking it. BBC are reporting in this now too. I think we're moving towards the end game for Putin now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 When a retried colonel speaks with quiet authority on state tv you know a lot of sh*t is happening behind the scenes. It's like Geoffrey Howe on Thatcher all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Nice work, Putin. They were Nazi plants and needed to go for the sake of Russia’s security. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 How does Ukraine's armillary seem to be so accurate, most of the time direct hits. How does this all work with wind as well ? Does anyone know ? I find it amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 17, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: How does Ukraine's armillary seem to be so accurate, most of the time direct hits. How does this all work with wind as well ? Does anyone know ? I find it amazing. You can get laser guided artillery. Just aim it in broadly the right location and a spotter with an invisible to the eye laser can highlight the target to the shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: How does Ukraine's armillary seem to be so accurate, most of the time direct hits. How does this all work with wind as well ? Does anyone know ? I find it amazing. Because they only show you the videos of the hits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: How does Ukraine's armillary seem to be so accurate, most of the time direct hits. How does this all work with wind as well ? Does anyone know ? I find it amazing. Quick explanation, better crews, gear, shells and radar. Long explanation, probably only the best bits are shown. It took us about 10 minutes to zero in on a target in the 70s before much of the tech currently available came into action. Drones makes the correction of a miss much quicker. Ukraine has a metric tonne of drones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Direct hits make good videos. No-one shows the misses. You get a biased view. The most modern artillery tracks incoming shells, works out the trajectory and fires at the source. Artillery fire can be directed by electronically "painting" a target and giving its position. Ukraine has the technology and the men on the ground to do this. A large shell does a lot of damage even without a direct hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Because they only show you the videos of the hits. This is the silly answer. you think they just got lucky in destroying an entire battalion of vehicles crossing the river the other day? Destroyed every single one of them. There’s even a drone operator that was posted in here and told you exactly how they did it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 1 minute ago, bickster said: This is the silly answer. you think they just got lucky in destroying an entire battalion of vehicles crossing the river the other day? Destroyed every single one of them. There’s even a drone operator that was posted in here and told you exactly how they did it Its not a silly answer. No army is going to release videos of its failures during war. The attack on the river crossing was amazing. But there must have been many total failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, bickster said: This is the silly answer. you think they just got lucky in destroying an entire battalion of vehicles crossing the river the other day? Destroyed every single one of them. There’s even a drone operator that was posted in here and told you exactly how they did it How could you possibly know that every shell scored a hit or if some (even a majority?) missed but they fired enough to hit the vehicles anyway? How do you know they destroyed every vehicle or if some retreated from the scene before they took photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, LondonLax said: How could you possibly know that every shell scored a hit or if some (even a majority?) missed but they fired enough to hit the vehicles anyway? How do you know they destroyed every vehicle or if some retreated from the scene before they took photos? Count them. I'll help you, there's a stiched together photo out there that shows every single one of them, there's over 50 its an entire BTG's worth of vehicles 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 I would have said there is a mix of kit, some high precision and some a bit more pot luck. The number of pictures of holes in fields that don’t have half a truck in them suggests a certain miss ratio. Every hole’s not a goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Its not a silly answer. It actually is, there are plenty of videos out there showing the initial misses. The drones the videos are shot from are doing the spotting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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