Lichfield Dean Posted May 15, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 15, 2022 1 hour ago, sne said: Finland applying to joining NATO a done deal. That is expected but still a very big deal. Sweden to follow next week according to the sounds here. Soooo.... Boris' amazing defensive pact with these countries means what now? If they join NATO then it's presumably pointless? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Just now, Lichfield Dean said: Soooo.... Boris' amazing defensive pact with these countries means what now? If they join NATO then it's presumably pointless? Great photo op thou. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 13 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said: Soooo.... Boris' amazing defensive pact with these countries means what now? If they join NATO then it's presumably pointless? It’s a bit like offering your extremely wealthy friend a loan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LondonLax Posted May 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 15, 2022 18 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said: Soooo.... Boris' amazing defensive pact with these countries means what now? If they join NATO then it's presumably pointless? No the point was to give them the cover to announce their NATO membership process. Joining NATO is not something that happens overnight, it could take 12 months or so (and Turkey are threatening to throw a spanner in the works). So the problem for Sweden and Finland is that they announce their intention to join but Russia decides to get a few punches in before the NATO protections kick in. The U.K. has promised to cover off that period, including the use of the U.K.’s nuclear deterrent. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 40 minutes ago, sne said: I’ll be honest love, when you said come and do a few strokes whilst I get some photos… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 So,Putin does not want Sweeden to join NATO.He does not want Finland to join NATO.He does not want Ukraine to join NATO. So,let me get this streight.The whole world ( and especially europe ) shouldent do anything that Putin does not want.So,when was he made king/ultimate ruler of everything ? I must have missed that bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted May 15, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 15, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, sne said: Great photo op thou. This is the only known photo of Johnson actually doing some work. Edited May 15, 2022 by Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, Anthony said: This is the only known photo of Johnson actually doing some work. You could say he was avoiding work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 The ruling party in Sweden that's been in power for most of the last 100 years have said yes to applying for NATO membership. Again expected but pretty amazing still since they've been extremely against it historically. Election year here so they are going with the current popular opinion but this will anger a fair number of their supporters. The other side of the political spectra here are pro NATO and has been for a long time so we will apply next week. Not sure I love being in a military coalition with the likes of Turkey, Hungary or the US or with nations having nuclear arms but pros and cons I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 1 hour ago, sne said: Not sure I love being in a military coalition with the likes of Turkey, Hungary or the US or with nations having nuclear arms but pros and cons I guess. I always had a mixed feeling about nuclear arms. But this conflict has convinced me they are a necessary evil. Ukraine gave up its nuclear arms and Russia is taking full advantage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Genie said: The war has backfired as much as anything has ever backfired in the history of the world. Senior Russian diplomats and military personnel must be looking at Putin now thinking he needs to go, urgently. It's a humiliation, and as much as Putin's karma bombing plus military reduction is compulsive viewing that we've been totally onboard with, the ideal situation is that Russia deals with Putin internally ASAP. Other scenarios, especially those involving non fish killing escalation are actually scary. A fuller explanation on Chomsky's position on Ukraine, Russia, China and beyond. For readers this time. Quote Imaginably, the world might rise to a level of civilization in which international law can be honored instead of righteously wielded against selected targets. We should never cease efforts to bring that about. In doing so, we should not succumb to the illusions fostered by the global doctrinal systems. Global Policy Journal We've done war on easy mode a couple of times in recent decades ourselves, and they've still not ended well. The recent Syria debacle saw Putin getting great joy from sending waves of refugees across the Med. If the Russian military continues to fail against the Ukrainian military? They will seek other cards to play. The more casualties that clock up before Putin falls, the more attractive an earlier if ugly truce will look. We don't know what happens if Ukrainian forces successfully push Russia back to their borders anyway? We could still get a safer World, it could be the biggest hawk inspired disaster of them all? Still too chaotic to call. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 From my admittedly amateur perception the best case scenario for Russia would be for Putin to be removed from within. Then whoever takes over comes cap in hand to the RoW stating that they never agreed with him and they brought him down. He went alone against all the advice blah blah. They can offer some cheap energy especially in Eastern Europe in return for a gradual re-integration into the world economy and also that they are really, really sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 There are people in their 20’s in Russia, including I suspect the majority of the army, that have never known any leader but Putin. he has been very good at the personality cult stuff. There is a risk, that if Putin is killed or removed then Russia could descend in to chaos. Oil money stopped, crops not planted, all manner of unknowns trying to wrestle for power. Starvation and chaos causing millions to decide to walk to Poland with little prospect of people offering spare bedrooms. We need to be a bit careful what we wish for here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 23 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: There are people in their 20’s in Russia, including I suspect the majority of the army, that have never known any leader but Putin. he has been very good at the personality cult stuff. There is a risk, that if Putin is killed or removed then Russia could descend in to chaos. Oil money stopped, crops not planted, all manner of unknowns trying to wrestle for power. Starvation and chaos causing millions to decide to walk to Poland with little prospect of people offering spare bedrooms. We need to be a bit careful what we wish for here. All things considered I think I’d prefer them to be fighting each other than their innocent neighbours but I agree, it could get messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 15, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 15, 2022 Interesting thread on what the failed River Crossing the other day really means 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 11 minutes ago, bickster said: Interesting thread on what the failed River Crossing the other day really means Really good explanation and emphasising just how much of fubar mission it was. probably the decisive battle of the last couple weeks and to lose so much kit and troops will undoubtedly have a huge knock on effect regarding moral. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 M777A2 in action.. Serious firepower. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Genie said: From my admittedly amateur perception the best case scenario for Russia would be for Putin to be removed from within. Then whoever takes over comes cap in hand to the RoW stating that they never agreed with him and they brought him down. He went alone against all the advice blah blah. They can offer some cheap energy especially in Eastern Europe in return for a gradual re-integration into the world economy and also that they are really, really sorry. I don't think anyone should buy oil / gas from them again no matter how much time goes. Take away their levers for good. Any re-integration should be over 30-40 years if ever. If you give money to Russia they buy weapons' in the end, they will always lie and always kill. The risks and history of the country. Just not worth it. Wait until fossil fuels are genuinely been faded out across the world. The RoW needs to create the narrative after this not Putin or whoever is next. Treat them like North Korea until they have a country worth talking to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 15, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 15, 2022 9 hours ago, sidcow said: I want to see the Putin dance On the end of a rope. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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