HKP90 Posted November 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2022 11 hours ago, ender4 said: Isn’t there a philosophical argument that they are sides of the same coin? War drives invention. Human greed and hunger for power drives technical innovation and therefore advancement of humans. Fair point. Which is why despite incredible technological advancement in an astonishingly short timescale, we never solve social issues. War never solves poverty, economic hardship, the environment. We are incredibly good at killing folk though. All time No. 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 20 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Fair point. Which is why despite incredible technological advancement in an astonishingly short timescale, we never solve social issues. War never solves poverty, economic hardship, the environment. We are incredibly good at killing folk though. All time No. 1. Nothing solves poverty. Poverty is relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Nothing solves poverty. Poverty is relative. That's so true. My Uncle is really poor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Iranian drones shot down in Ukraine appear to have U.S and European tech in them that was only released to the market earlier this year. Someone in the U.S is avoiding sanctions and selling things to Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Iranian drones shot down in Ukraine appear to have U.S and European tech in them that was only released to the market earlier this year. Someone in the U.S is avoiding sanctions and selling things to Iran. Parts should be traceable. Someone could get into serious trouble. Even if they sold them to some unknown party it won't be acceptable. Whoever is last in the line of the supply chain will be bricking it now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, sidcow said: Parts should be traceable. Someone could get into serious trouble. Even if they sold them to some unknown party it won't be acceptable. Whoever is last in the line of the supply chain will be bricking it now. I think it's called the Grey market where Russia removes all import laws on everything just to see what it can get. As you say, if stuff is found with Serial numbers on the Battlefield then they are in serious trouble. I would create 200 honey pot companies around the world. Ship them 10 of whatever (Iphones) as proof of passage and quality, then sell them 10,000 DOA's, get the Rubles they get nothing. When it comes to chips and high value stuff this is a valid thing to do, so for the big order we actually send them boxes and boxes of Oven Chips. Waste their time and money. Especially good to do when they really need a part for oil and gas and they are waiting for it to arrive or it all goes wrong. Just scam them to death, they are basically going cold turkey now, capitalise on their desperation and make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I would create 200 honey pot companies around the world. Ship them 10 of whatever (Iphones) as proof of passage and quality, then sell them 10,000 DOA's, get the Rubles they get nothing. Depends on whether you fancy a nice cup of polonium tea for breakfast one of the days though, doesn't it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Mister_a said: Depends on whether you fancy a nice cup of polonium tea for breakfast one of the days though, doesn't it. I don't drink tea, but I see what you mean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Mister_a said: Depends on whether you fancy a nice cup of polonium tea for breakfast one of the days though, doesn't it. Is that the new brand from Lipton? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Is that the new brand from Lipton? Nope Spoiler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2022 BBC going out on a limb there, that Russia are going to withdraw troops from Kherson It's unusual because they are normally one of the last to report things like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) Max Seddon from the FT. Normally reliable. I do fear a trap though. Edited November 9, 2022 by Anthony 'trap' comment 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, bickster said: BBC going out on a limb there, that Russia are going to withdraw troops from Kherson It's unusual because they are normally one of the last to report things like this The grauniad are reporting it as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2022 I highly doubt it is 40,000 troops now given that attrition has been very high Nevertheless, that is an awful lot of troops to cross the Dnipro across what is currently left of the bridges across the river i.e. not a lot. They will be leaving a lot of hardware behind and I would imagine that Ukraine will target the retreating troops it's not like they don't know the Lat/Longs of the crossing points This might be a Dunkirk moment for Russia If I was a Russian soldier, I'd definitely be looking to travel in the opposite direction with a white flag 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 18 hours ago, bickster said: I very much doubt Ukrainians themselves will allow that at this stage You believe that the Ukrainians are in charge Capt. Manwaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2022 5 hours ago, sidcow said: Whoever is last in the line of the supply chain will be bricking it now. They all will - it's the way export control law works, and the US ITAR version is incredibly onerous, in particular. Being any part of the chain is problematic, because it is incumbent on each party to verify that an item is not export controlled, and even if you're told by the one passing it on to you "no it isn't", it is incumbent on you that you verify this - the absence of documentation is not accepted. The only way to be cleared is to show you have followed all the steps that are mandated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Does anyone else think that Russia would have been happy to hold the territory east of the river before this war? Was this their plan all along? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: Was this their plan all along? No, they wanted it all. Day 1 and 2 they landed paratroopers on an airfield close to Kiev, didn't go well but they genuinely thought 3 or 4 days. That's why they dropped at the airport to ship in troops, they never managed to hold the airport. If they had done that properly it might have been all over. They are just stealing people and looting, that's what they will end up with ultimately. They are done long term as a attacking force. Hold or retreat is their only commands now I suspect, their logistics are shattered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted November 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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