Popular Post One For The Road Posted November 7, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 7, 2017 6 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I still think the biggest threat to us is boro. No one is really talking about them and now they have slowly crept above us. The biggest threat to us finishing 6th? What about all the other teams around us? Our biggest threat to finishing in the play offs is us. We are not consistent enough at the best of times but without our best defender we are going to drop more points than usual. There are plenty of teams that can finish above us. Middlesbrough are just one of them. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 36 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: You are relentless in the defence of a manager who failed us and continues to do so. Nothing like moving the goal „posts“ to deflect eh? If Steve Bruce is so emphatically guilty of failure as you allude to, can you tell me why a bunch of senior people allow him to preside over such an important role, when so much money is at risk within the club? Surely you accept that they see much more than we? So why do they run with it.....when you clearly see it as madness.....how can you both be so far apart in your views? GH.....where i do agree with you is the description of the type of football we play and what we see on matchday....what must Steve Bruce be telling them in meetings that they find so acceptable? where we differ slightly ,is who is to blame.....I accept that the manager has to take responsibility, but there are mitigations to that as we all know.....like Dean Smith at Brentford having enough money to trade, hardly his fault for that.....or Alex Neil losing half his team through injury....so to say its always the managers fault, is a bit simplistic to me. I am not as happy with SB as my posts sometimes suggest, I am just keen to illuminate area's where i think he gets blamed and to me is dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, DCJonah said: It is for this league. When the transfer window shut we were 7 points off 2nd. We're still 7 points off 2nd. To close that gap in this league requires consistency from us and a lack of consistency from teams above us. It's difficult. and to add to that, it probably means we need around 6 wins in a row to get into the top 2, and then another couple of wins again to stay there. So 8 wins in a row to be part of the top 2 for more than a week. (unless the top 4 teams all have a bad run of form which isn't really going to happen) Edited November 7, 2017 by ender4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post One For The Road Posted November 7, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 7, 2017 To finish in the top 2 we have to first overhaul a 7 point gap, (something we have spent the whole season trying to do and got nowhere near doing, even with JT at the back) and then we have to accumulate more points than every club (bar 1) for the rest of the season. Not a hope in hell. Even 6th is looking like a tough ask. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) TRO how can you be so naive? Quote If Steve Bruce is so emphatically guilty of failure as you allude to, can you tell me why a bunch of senior people allow him to preside over such an important role, when so much money is at risk within the club? DrT choose RDM right? RDM was sacked right? SR & KW suggested SB to DrT right? Thats all the info you need to know that, Ultimately DrT can make a decision. If he chooses to sack Bruce, don‘t you think that it‘s not hard to imagine SR & KW are every so slightly nervous about their jobs should DrT be the one to take action. Why else would they support him for STILL not being in a position where we are in a promotable position looking good for it too? Quote Surely you accept that they see much more than we? They see a paycheck and dont want to see a P45 Quote So why do they run with it.....when you clearly see it as madness.....how can you both be so far apart in your views? simply because I have no responsibility to anything but my own opinion. They have a responsibility of duty, but still have the option of their own responsibility towards self-preservation. Quote GH.....where i do agree with you is the description of the type of football we play and what we see on matchday....what must Steve Bruce be telling them in meetings that they find so acceptable? It‘s like giving a child a fork to eat their soup........then complaining about the mess they made Quote where we differ slightly ,is who is to blame.....I accept that the manager has to take responsibility, but there are mitigations to that as we all know.....like Dean Smith at Brentford having enough money to trade, hardly his fault for that.....or Alex Neil losing half his team through injury....so to say its always the managers fault, is a bit simplistic to me. But he is creating his own problems Quote I am not as happy with SB as my posts sometimes suggest, I am just keen to illuminate area's where i think he gets blamed and to me is dubious. Well, you are wrong (imho) and you can’t prove even yourself that you are right, becsuse you always „go so far“ with your post, then at some point state „but I don’t know why“. Simple Give someone else the job, then we cant blame him. ********* you have taken the discussion off-topic. I stated my reasons as to why I think our 17/18 promotion charge will fail. I am convinced a change is our only chance because it‘s clear to me that Bruce won‘t get us top2. Playoffs maybe despite Bruce. I have no faith in him over 2 legs and a final. We may have a chance with a different approach, so that would mean a different manager. Edited November 7, 2017 by Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 38 minutes ago, One For The Road said: To finish in the top 2 we have to first overhaul a 7 point gap, (something we have spent the whole season trying to do and got nowhere near doing, even with JT at the back) and then we have to accumulate more points than every club (bar 1) for the rest of the season. Not a hope in hell. Even 6th is looking like a tough ask. nail hammer head 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, One For The Road said: To finish in the top 2 we have to first overhaul a 7 point gap, (something we have spent the whole season trying to do and got nowhere near doing, even with JT at the back) and then we have to accumulate more points than every club (bar 1) for the rest of the season. Not a hope in hell. Even 6th is looking like a tough ask. So a team that is currently 6th will have a “tough” task in being 6th? I’m liking this analysis, it seems well-grounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I think any hope of top 2 is over now with Terry long term injury. Of course the fight for a play up place is still on but I can seen it going down to the last few games of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So a team that is currently 6th will have a “tough” task in being 6th? I’m liking this analysis, it seems well-grounded. Yes. Given our best player and captain is going to be out for a long time. Which part of that don't you understand? We have only spent about a week in the top 6 since Bruce arrived and now we have lost our best defender over the busiest period of the season. It's not like we were tearing the league apart before his injury either. We were barely in the play off places. It seems a very well grounded argument to think we will struggle to stay where we are. Edited November 7, 2017 by One For The Road 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So a team that is currently 6th will have a “tough” task in being 6th? I’m liking this analysis, it seems well-grounded. You are not a-tuned to the logic of Terry out -> Samba in JC moved out of position for Samba Taylor out -> Hutton in RDL & Bree not even considered - Elmo out if position Whelan - huffs over 90mins Snod out -> who in ? Hogan out right ? Thor? Hourihane played deep Jk out Hogan hoofed to Davis lacking support Bruceball If only half the leagues managers outwitted Bruce it‘s still not enough. Do you see where we are going with Bruce? Not on a promotion charge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Grasshopper said: TRO how can you be so naive? DrT choose RDM right? RDM was sacked right? SR & KW suggested SB to DrT right? Thats all the info you need to know that, Ultimately DrT can make a decision. If he chooses to sack Bruce, don‘t you think that it‘s not hard to imagine SR & KW are every so slightly nervous about their jobs should DrT be the one to take action. Why else would they support him for STILL not being in a position where we are in a promotable position looking good for it too? They see a paycheck and dont want to see a P45 simply because I have no responsibility to anything but my own opinion. They have a responsibility of duty, but still have the option of their own responsibility towards self-preservation. It‘s like giving a child a fork to eat their soup........then complaining about the mess they made But he is creating his own problems Well, you are wrong (imho) and you can’t prove even yourself that you are right, becsuse you always „go so far“ with your post, then at some point state „but I don’t know why“. Simple Give someone else the job, then we cant blame him. ********* you have taken the discussion off-topic. I stated my reasons as to why I think our 17/18 promotion charge will fail. I am convinced a change is our only chance because it‘s clear to me that Bruce won‘t get us top2. Playoffs maybe despite Bruce. I have no faith in him over 2 legs and a final. We may have a chance with a different approach, so that would mean a different manager. Well , holier than thou or what.? i don't think you go anywhere near close to substantiating your claim....you have no substance whatsoever to support the next manager will do any better.....its just get rid and hope for the best. we have seen instances where managers have been sacked and the expected progression has not happened. so where does this guarantee manifest itself from.....a figment of our imagination? You make feasible claims about the poor standard of football, but then make a simplistic stab at the source of the problem.....we have been saying this about managers for years. Tony Barton was no good according to HDE. Its a cop out.....but i am aware its a more modern thing than ever.....sack the manager. We could be having this conversation 12 months down the line with Dean Smith......maybe all the owners got it wrong sacking Neil Warnock. Success requires a number of factors to come together and there is an element of good fortune, such is the amount of factors. Steve Bruce, or any manager we have needs to work in a reasonable amount of time until he gets it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 2 hours ago, One For The Road said: Yes. Given our best player and captain is going to be out for a long time. Which part of that don't you understand? We have only spent about a week in the top 6 since Bruce arrived and now we have lost our best defender over the busiest period of the season. It's not like we were tearing the league apart before his injury either. We were barely in the play off places. It seems a very well grounded argument to think we will struggle to stay where we are. That seems more like assuming the very worst possible will happen, not a well-grounded argument, to be frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, briny_ear said: That seems more like assuming the very worst possible will happen, not a well-grounded argument, to be frank. So a team that got to 6th with its best player, slipping from that position without him, is not a well grounded expectation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, briny_ear said: That seems more like assuming the very worst possible will happen, not a well-grounded argument, to be frank. Since Mon left it has been that way. I guess the moto of this story is: employ sh*t nanagers or good ones but tie their hands behind their backs, then the only way is down and not back up untill there is a complete 180 reversal to start doing things right again. i.e. Employ a capable manager and support him correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) We have improved our forward line no end but until our manager realises he needs to let them attack more we won't get full use out of them. Because of that, I simply cannot see us improve much on last season's finishing position. Maybe as high as 8th but probably around 10th. Wolves, Sheff Utd, Cardiff, Bristol City, Leeds, 'Boro, Derby, Brentford, Sheff Weds, Forest could all easily finish above us. Reading are showing signs of recovery too! We have a good starting eleven and decent back up in certain areas but I fear this key area, where we will have Samba, Jedinak or someone else not seemingly adequate enough, will cover our leader and best defender for several weeks, is going to cost us dearly. We could lose 4 out of 7 and be outside of the play offs by a couple of wins - that's how tight it is. Edited November 7, 2017 by villarocker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 8 hours ago, One For The Road said: To finish in the top 2 we have to first overhaul a 7 point gap, (something we have spent the whole season trying to do and got nowhere near doing, even with JT at the back) and then we have to accumulate more points than every club (bar 1) for the rest of the season. Not a hope in hell. Even 6th is looking like a tough ask. Fair point and hard to disagree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 13 hours ago, briny_ear said: That seems more like assuming the very worst possible will happen, not a well-grounded argument, to be frank. Have decided this thread is a place to avoid for a few weeks mate - too much negativity about - I’m still very hopeful for the season ahead - I don’t see Cardiff , sheff u or Bristol city realistically finishing in the top 2 and we are level with boro - time will tell as the season progresses but I think villa are right in the mix for promotion - I’m sure boro and derby fans aren’t writing off their hopes and both are no better than us points wise . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 12 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Since Mon left it has been that way. I guess the moto of this story is: employ sh*t nanagers or good ones but tie their hands behind their backs, then the only way is down and not back up untill there is a complete 180 reversal to start doing things right again. i.e. Employ a capable manager and support him correctly. Martin O'Neil had his detractors too. He was very iffy in the transfer market Arrogant in his defence of his principles. played smash a grab football in the main....secured good away results at the expense of home results. Not to everyones liking at all but did acheive 6-6-6 which is very commendable, but it could be boring at times. It is most unlikely we will ever get a manager who everyone favours.....unless and oligarch or sheik takes over and ignores FFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I really do think yhe difference is kodjia. He has not hit anywhere close to last season. Imagine he found that kind of form on top of the recent good form? Ie he could achieve that id feel very confident for top 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Looking at the league only 5 teams have never played in the Premier League. I wonder if any other major league in Europe has that kind of strength in the second tier. Also I think looking at how the likes of Newcastle, Bournemouth, Watford. Huddersfield, Burnley BrIghton have managed in the top flight without sweeping changes shows how tough this league is. Its a struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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