The Manager thread

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

He's been finished for years cannot believe people refuse to see it.

I really thought he'd prove people wrong at Spurs, his time at United was kind of underrated. He had a great opportunity. Was backed pretty well in the transfer market, and most of the top teams this season have been weak. This was the chance to capitalize. They can still finish in the top 4 though if he pulls his finger out and just go for it and maybe even add a League Cup to it as well. He's just so stubborn and they're going to get done 3-0 in the final, and limp to 7th.

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

He's been finished for years cannot believe people refuse to see it.

It’s in the balance at this stage.

He could finish top 4 and win a cup.

He could finish 6-8 and win nothing.

[Zatman]

16 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I really thought he'd prove people wrong at Spurs, his time at United was kind of underrated. He had a great opportunity. Was backed pretty well in the transfer market, and most of the top teams this season have been weak. This was the chance to capitalize. They can still finish in the top 4 though if he pulls his finger out and just go for it and maybe even add a League Cup to it as well. He's just so stubborn and they're going to get done 3-0 in the final, and limp to 7th.

He hasnt performed but I dont think he has been backed, they lost Eriksen and Vertonghen and didnt bring in any replacements. Bale wasnt his choice and I dont think Doherty was either. He was desperate for Skriniar who wanted to join and Inter were willing to sell

[VillaChris]

Their team isn't as strong as what Poch had. Eriksen at his best way better than Ndombele and you had the proper version of Alli in those days. And Toby-Vertonghen CB is miles clear of what they have now at the back.

However it hasn't declined that much that Pochettino can be criticised for never winning anything (even though they finished top 4 in 4/5 seasons and got to CL final) to suddenly it's o.k for him to just finish 6th and no questions asked.

They have two of the best forwards in european football playing for them and we've seen before great forwards lead many mediocre teams to even league titles sometimes. Chelsea would certainly kill to have either Kane or Son in their team and they'll comfortably finish above Spurs now.

Edited March 18, 2021 by VillaChris

[Rino8]

17 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Their team isn't as strong as what Poch had. Eriksen at his best way better than Ndombele and you had the proper version of Alli in those days. And Toby-Vertonghen CB is miles clear of what they have now at the back.

However it hasn't declined that much that Pochettino can be criticised for never winning anything (even though they finished top 4 in 4/5 seasons and got to CL final) to suddenly it's o.k for him to just finish 6th and no questions asked.

They have two of the best forwards in european football playing for them and we've seen before great forwards lead many mediocre teams to even league titles sometimes. Chelsea would certainly kill to have either Kane or Son in their team and they'll comfortably finish above Spurs now.

The criticism of never winning anything in general is strange to me. (I know that's not what you're saying)

A select few teams every year get to win the big cups. And along the way more often than not the best players win, not the best manager.

 

Getting to a champions league final is an enormous achievement and just saying 'well they haven't won anything' is reductive and wrong.

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

The criticism of never winning anything in general is strange to me. (I know that's not what you're saying)

A select few teams every year get to win the big cups. And along the way more often than not the best players win, not the best manager.

 

Getting to a champions league final is an enormous achievement and just saying 'well they haven't won anything' is reductive and wrong.

I think the media have built Spurs up to the level of United, City and Chelsea etc that at a stage trophies are demanded. the other 5 of the Sky 6 are all winning trophies regularly even Arsenal that its not really good enough for Spurs not to win anything, they never really challenged for a league title either in that time

[VillaChris]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think the media have built Spurs up to the level of United, City and Chelsea etc that at a stage trophies are demanded. the other 5 of the Sky 6 are all winning trophies regularly even Arsenal that its not really good enough for Spurs not to win anything, they never really challenged for a league title either in that time

They probably should've pushed Leicester more in that season, had an incredible winning run from early Feb to May that season before blowing up in final 4 games and somehow finishing below Arsenal in the end. Probably a year too early in their mentality.

16/17 they actually finished 2nd with 86 points but Chelsea blew everyone out of the water with something like 13 straight wins in first half of the season.

17/18 3rd with 77 points

18/19 4th with 71 points. That was probably the warning sign as they ended last two months in really poor league form but the CL run papered over that.

It was still consistantly very good though. They're getting nowhere near 70 points this season, will do well to scrape 60 so that's how standards have fallen.

Edited March 18, 2021 by VillaChris

[Keyblade]

45 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He hasnt performed but I dont think he has been backed, they lost Eriksen and Vertonghen and didnt bring in any replacements. Bale wasnt his choice and I dont think Doherty was either. He was desperate for Skriniar who wanted to join and Inter were willing to sell

They were low balling Inter, typical Levy. They wanted 60m+ and he was offering stuff like 16m  

Their squad is very good and that's largely due to the work they did this summer. He was tasked to get a RB, LB, CB, DM (!) and a good right winger. He got all of that, except for their #1 CB target, but he still signed Joe Rodon, one of the best young CBs in the Championship. It's only his fault he keeps playing Dier when Rodon and Tanganga who never put a foot wrong in a Spurs shirt warm the bench.

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

I think the media have built Spurs up to the level of United, City and Chelsea etc that at a stage trophies are demanded. the other 5 of the Sky 6 are all winning trophies regularly even Arsenal that its not really good enough for Spurs not to win anything, they never really challenged for a league title either in that time

Like @VillaChris said, they were very close. 16/17 they were very unlucky that a poor start and Chelsea being imperious that season meant they missed out on the title. They had a +60 goal difference by the end of it. I still maintain that side was the best side to watch in the last decade. They were also Leicester's main rivals for the title that one season along with City. They were close. Certainly closer than United and Arsenal were in Poch's time there. Mourinho finished 2nd that one season with United, but they were like 20 points off the pace, it wasn't really a title race.

[rodders0223]

11 hours ago, Genie said:

It’s in the balance at this stage.

He could finish top 4 and win a cup.

He could finish 6-8 and win nothing.

He won't finish top 4 though will he. His football is garbage and it has been for a long time and no it hasn't always been this way.

His United stint was diabolical and the two trophies (tinpot by that clubs stature and turnover and spend) don't mask it.

Remember when they got dumped out the CL by Sevilla in one of the most negative turgid non performances ever.

He is done and has been for a long time. The charismatic charmer that would make you run through brick walls for him is gone. He is an arsehole. Just an old arsehole who refuses to change.

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

He won't finish top 4 though will he. His football is garbage and it has been for a long time and no it hasn't always been this way.

His United stint was diabolical and the two trophies (tinpot by that clubs stature and turnover and spend) don't mask it.

Remember when they got dumped out the CL by Sevilla in one of the most negative turgid non performances ever.

He is done and has been for a long time. The charismatic charmer that would make you run through brick walls for him is gone. He is an arsehole. Just an old arsehole who refuses to change.

Spurs were amazing to watch at the start of this season. Kane and Son were ridiculous, tearing defences apart.

They’ve scored a lot of goals and destroyed some teams at home and in Europe.

Jose is just one of those managers people like to hate, because of his arrogance. 

 

[Keyblade]

7 hours ago, Genie said:

Spurs were amazing to watch at the start of this season. Kane and Son were ridiculous, tearing defences apart.

They’ve scored a lot of goals and destroyed some teams at home and in Europe.

Jose is just one of those managers people like to hate, because of his arrogance. 

 

They're so one dimensional and reliant on Kane and Son that it hurts to watch now. When they were clicking and on fire at the start of the season it was brilliant but if one of them gets injured or is out of form they have absolutely nothing. It's literally just "ping the ball out to Kane who will drop deep to around the center circle and have him pick out Son with a worldie who will convert with his ridiculously high conversion rate this season". The gaps between midfield and attack are cavernous. No other player in the squad apart from Bale even has 4 goals, and he only hit that recently with a flurry of goals.

As you can probably imagine, it doesn't really take much for this tactic to go horribly wrong as we're seeing right now. It's not too dissimilar to Steve Bruce's "hit the ball up to Kodjia/Grealish/Snodgrass/Saint-Maximin and hope they produce a bit of magic" tactic". Stevie Wonder could see we would never get promoted like that. Sad to see Jose devolve into this tbh. I was rooting for him.

[sharkyvilla]

19 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

He's been finished for years cannot believe people refuse to see it.

Absolutely.  I still don't get why he gets the same people sticking up for him.  His football is shit, he throws great footballers under the bus and has zero class off the field.

[Genie]

40 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Absolutely.  I still don't get why he gets the same people sticking up for him.  His football is shit, he throws great footballers under the bus and has zero class off the field.

Another Mourinho myth  

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Genie

[Genie]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

They're so one dimensional and reliant on Kane and Son that it hurts to watch now

I’m not sure this is something to throw at Jose really.

Most teams are reliant on reliant on 1 special player, they have 2 stars. Then Bale. Then Moura, Alli. All can come up with something special.

Where would Man United be without Bruno?

Leicester without Vardy

Liverpool without Salah

Villa without Grealish

PSG without M’bappe

Barcelona without Messi

etc

Its just normal business really (apart from City who have an embarrassment of riches).

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m not sure this is something to throw at Jose really.

Most teams are reliant on reliant on 1 special player, they have 2 stars. Then Bale. Then Moura, Alli. All can come up with something special.

Where would Man United be without Bruno?

Leicester without Vardy

Liverpool without Salah

Villa without Grealish

PSG without M’bappe

Barcelona without Messi

etc

Its just normal business really (apart from City who have an embarrassment of riches).

They don't devolve into a pub team without those players though. They're even worse than us without Jack and we probably rely on him more than any other team relies on a player. It's not just that they rely on the players to produce the goods, but that their entire entire offensive game plan revolves around those 2 players and just those 2 players.

Moura/Bergwijn/Bale/Alli are quite literally afterthoughts, and all of their form has just fallen off a cliff as a result (though Bale has picked up recently). They have 8 goals between them this season. 5 of those are Bale's, the other 3 Moura's.

Bergwijn in particular is shattered confidence-wise. His only job on the pitch, when he's on it, is to bring the ball up the pitch for Son and Kane as well as be an auxiliary right back. His game used to be about hugging the left touchline and cutting in and scoring, not starting in his own half turning defence into attack. This is why young players don't flourish under Jose. How the hell is a 23 year old, new to English football supposed to radically change his game like that and be a success? Only the mature and tactically disciplined players can play under him. That's why Hojbjerg is so important for them and the most Mourinho signing you could imagine. He has a maturity, experience and discipline that belies his age. 

[villa4europe]

Problem is these players bar a few of them also devolved in to a pub team under Poch... 

[Genie]

10 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

They don't devolve into a pub team without those players though

I should have stopped reading at this point. Massive hyperbole.

Take the stars out of any team out and they look much worse. That’s not on Jose. It’s football. 

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Problem is these players bar a few of them also devolved in to a pub team under Poch... 

This is exactly the way it has been but it seems the Poch thing is being swept under the carpet. He lost nearly  20 of his last 50 league games at Spurs and Spurs were in such poor form they were potentially sleepwalking into a relegation battle last season. They were 14th with jsut 14 points in 12 games including bad losses to Newcastle and Brighton when Poch was sacked

Edited March 19, 2021 by Zatman

[Keyblade]

13 minutes ago, Genie said:

I should have stopped reading at this point. Massive hyperbole.

Take the stars out of any team out and they look much worse. That’s not on Jose. It’s football. 

Sounds like you didn't watch the games when Kane was injured. Some of the worst performances put in by any team this season including Newcastle. That Brighton performance reminded me of us under McLeish and that's not hyperbole at all. I'm still mad I watched that.

If you don't really watch Spurs games and just look at the league table and that "Jose Mourinho" is managing them then it's easy to have the wrong impression and you just won't know how dire they've been at times. Have a pop over at the Spurs forum for a few minutes. They're dead serious.