vreitti Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: You're suggesting revamping the entire way we play on the off chance it'll suit Hogan When and where did I suggest this? Does it mean we have to change the goalkeeper and back four to fit in Hogan? It's swapping one player for another, and trying to setup a slightly altered gameplan where we try to play more on the ground, instead of just aimlessly lumping it forward. Furthermore, the way we now seem to setup with Davis a target, Hogan would certainly benefit from his holdup play, and could be deployed right behind him, for instance instead of Onomah who's faded a bit recently. It wouldn't change a goddam thing in "our system". If it doesn't work out Bruce can always switch back to the "hoof and hope" crap. Edited November 2, 2017 by vreitti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, vreitti said: When and where did I suggest this? Does it mean we have to change the goalkeeper and back four to fit in Hogan? It's swapping one player for another, and trying to setup a slightly altered gameplay where we try to play more on the ground, instead of just aimlessly lumping it forward. Furthermore, the way we now seem to setup with Davis a target, Hogan would certainly benefit from his holdup play, and could be deployed right behind him, for instance instead of Onomah who's faded a bit recently. It wouldn't change a goddam thing in "our system". If it doesn't work out Bruce can always switch back to the "hoof and hope" crap. I think hogan could work well off Davis and It’s another optIon , the more options the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Sacking a manager who has got the team in an acceptable position and in a very good run of form, to fit in a player who, even if we were to build the entire team around him may not succeed? Agenda. I want Hogan to do well, but why change a (currently) winning formula for one player? Because it could end up in a real game plan that would likely yield better long term results. The only reason we have a winning formula at the moment is because the team is more hardworking and solid defensively. We aren't winning comfortably or with any sort of clearcut plan. We are grinding results, and we've already seen how easily we can get outplayed by better opposition. All in my humble opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Eastie said: I think hogan could work well off Davis and It’s another optIon , the more options the better Sadly it's an option the manager isn't interested in, and thus people are ready to instantly ship away Hogan. I despair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 This thread gets more bizarre every day. He's not the first big money forward to flop and Im sure it won't be the last. Davis is obviously ahead of him now, Yes he could have the call to play along side him - but the bloke who bruce opted for (Onamah) had a really good game last night. Hogan has to get in the team on his own merit. Thats either being the best option when Davis/Kjodia are out - or making the most of his sub appearances. It would seem he has slipped further down the order now with Onamah being ahead of him. But this is down to Hogan to sort 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Can't see it working out for him here and if possible we should probably tr to ship him out in January. The longer he stays the lower his value gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 2, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, vreitti said: When and where did I suggest this? Does it mean we have to change the goalkeeper and back four to fit in Hogan? It's swapping one player for another, and trying to setup a slightly altered gameplan where we try to play more on the ground, instead of just aimlessly lumping it forward. Furthermore, the way we now seem to setup with Davis a target, Hogan would certainly benefit from his holdup play, and could be deployed right behind him, for instance instead of Onomah who's faded a bit recently. It wouldn't change a goddam thing in "our system". If it doesn't work out Bruce can always switch back to the "hoof and hope" crap. Well in this post alone you've suggested playing differently, with a different formation. just to fit in a player who has so far looked about as good as my mom with her boots on the wrong feet. On top of sacking the manager to do so in your previous post. You don't see how crazy that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Well in this post alone you've suggested playing differently, with a different formation. just to fit in a player who has so far looked about as good as my mom with her boots on the wrong feet. On top of sacking the manager to do so in your previous post. You don't see how crazy that is? Am I really suggesting an altogether different formation or playing style? I don't think I am. I wasn't being 100 % serious in regard to sacking the manager, given the recent turnaround, it was more in response to the ridiculous claims from several ppl that we should cut our losses with Hogan. Doesn't change the fact that I believe we could be so so so much better with someone else in charge. To me it isn't the least bit crazy, but what do i know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 2, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, vreitti said: Am I really suggesting an altogether different formation or playing style? I don't think I am. Yes. For Hogan to play well we would have to play an entirely different style. And you're suggesting replacing a midfielder in the starting lineup with him, a striker. Regardless, the suggestion that we should be sacking the manager and changing what we're doing right now, on the form we're in, just to accommodate Scott Hogan is crazy (imo of course). He's shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I wonder if we could swop him for Hernandez in January?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: For Hogan to play well we would have to play an entirely different style. Okay then. Probably best if you just stick to FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 2, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, vreitti said: Okay then. Probably best if you just stick to FM. Says the guy wanting to sack the manager, change formation and change tactics to accommodate one poor player. Yeah, I'm the one basing my opinion on football manager Edited November 2, 2017 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Says the guy wanting to sack the manager, change formation and change tactics to accommodate one poor player. For the last time, I'm not suggesting any of those things. I'm saying I don't think fitting Hogan in would involve changing formation or "tactics". It might entail changing the manager though, seeing as the current incumbent isn't really interested in using Hogan. You don't have to agree with me, I'm just giving my opinion. Edited November 2, 2017 by vreitti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 2, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 49 minutes ago, vreitti said: For the last time, I'm not suggesting any of those things. Sack the manager: 2 hours ago, vreitti said: Why not cut or losses with the manager instead Change tactics: 2 hours ago, vreitti said: try to play more on the ground... setup a slightly altered gameplan... change formation: 2 hours ago, vreitti said: instead of Onomah I'm responding to what you post. If you're not suggesting changing tactics, or formation to include Hogan, then are you just suggesting playing him more? That's a much more rational suggestion, but still not one that would work, imo, because he's not very good. I don't see why selling Hogan in January seems so crazy. There's a good chance we'll be selling him in the summer anyway as there is no chance he'll cut it in the Premier League. Edited November 2, 2017 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I don't agree that Hogan is shit, I genuinely think his movement is brilliant, and he's been unfortunate to have only played up top on his own. He's only about 5'10, no chance he's bringing the long balls down. However, the idea of changing anything in the regards to the formation, style of play or even the manager(?) is absolutely bonkers. It's not the greatest football we've ever seen, but it's working. I'd like to know who this manager is who some people are certain can play expansive passing football with our squad, and I'd like to know why he'd be managing in the championship and not a top prem team. Let's remember a lot of people were shouting for the now sacked Simon Grayson as the 'man to get' to get us up. It's hard enough to get the right combination working at all, without suggesting sacking the manager on the best run your clubs had in donkey's years, because you think it's not good enough in the long run. FWIW I think the only plausible change for Hogan to be in the first 11 is a straight swap for Onomah last night, and as Steve said, that has to be on his own merit in training and his sub appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, thabucks said: I wonder if we could swop him for Hernandez in January?! Isn't he hurt? Hernandez is the type of player we need off the bench. He is strong, and quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm responding to what you post. If you're not suggesting changing tactics, or formation to include Hogan, then are you just suggesting playing him more? That's a much more rational suggestion, but still not one that would work, imo, because he's not very good. I don't see why selling Hogan in January seems so crazy. There's a good chance we'll be selling him in the summer anyway as there is no chance he'll cut it in the Premier League. No you're not, you're picking things out of context and making further own assumptions. If you seriously think swapping Hogan with Onomah is a change in formation, or entails a genuine tactical change, we have absolutely nothing more to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 2, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 2, 2017 39 minutes ago, vreitti said: If you seriously think swapping Hogan with Onomah is a change in formation, or entails a genuine tactical change, we have absolutely nothing more to discuss. Well it means we'd be playing two natural strikers as opposed to one. How is that not a change in formation? Or are you suggesting playing Hogan in midfield? In which case that's even more bizarre. it's not a tactical change. The tactical change is moving to a more possession based game purely to accommodate Scott Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I love the idea that all we need to change is the height of the ball we play. Have you been watching Hogan? He doesn't keep the ball even when it's played into his feet. The only time he will be a threat is if a ball is played over the top or through but we can't spend all game doing that as we will never keep the ball and build attacks. At Brentford, I imagine most teams they played tried to take the game to them, this allowed more space in behind for Hogan to make runs. We aren't going to go up playing that style of football to try and accomadate a bloke who had no one near him and still managed to kick a ball out for a throw. He was an absolute panic buy based on a goal scoring stat and no thought or plan went into it. When we are in such financial problems I find it hard to take away the fee when judging a player. His value for money is possibly one of the worst in the history of this club. It's not his fault we paid it but I think it's his fault for how shit he's looked every single time he's been given a chance in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieVillan Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I actually think that we are now seeing that the system we play doesn't suit either Hogan or even Kodjia, especially when they are not alongside a target man i.e. Davis. The difference is that Kodjia, by his very nature, can receive the ball into feet and try to take players on and do something on his own, sometimes frustratingly though. Alot of Kodjia's goals last season were very much that, him doing something out of nothing on his own. For that reason , Kodjia will probably still play a big role this season when fit. Hogan doesn't seem have this in his locker. Hogan is a decent player that has the attributes to be a very good Championship player at least, but our current style of play combined with his obvious lack of confidence at the moment means that he is only going to play a bit part role this year, barring alot of injuries to our other forwards. If Hogan being a passenger is a by-product of us being promoted, then its certainly a price I'm willing to pay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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