Gareth Southgate

[Zatman]

Mason Mount will be his McGinn

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

That’s not my point - there’s a difference between a backup player who doesn’t feature because there are stronger options ahead of them, and a player who doesn’t feature because they literally aren’t going to be needed in any scenario.

We currently have the situation where Kane looks very tired, and our only like for like backup for him is Wilson, who is injury prone.

Whereas at RB we have Trippier, Walker, White, Trent, and Saka who can all play there (and Dier etc could probably fill in too).

So he’s stacked that position for no reason and left us light in other spots. That’s why I say Trent is just there to keep media happy.

I'm agreeing with you that Trent is just there to keep the media happy, there is no disagreement. It's true that we could, and probably should, have taken another striker in place of him. On the other hand, all the other options are either in shit form (Watkins, Abraham), just coming back from injury (Calvert-Lewin) or both (Bamford), with the exception of Toney who is in great form but potentially about to get a lengthy ban from the sport. So it's not like there's a mass of great striking options. Whoever he took in that role would have been about as unlikely to get on the pitch as TAA is. However, I can agree that it's more prudent to have better balance, so if it was me personally I'd have taken Abraham. 

14 minutes ago, penguin said:

Take one less right back and Ward-Prowse is a good option also.

I think this proves my point to be honest. The guy who is probably our most likely option from CM who hasn't been taken is James Ward-Prowse, an off-form midfielder for a side who get overrun in midfield. Probably the next best bet after that would be Ramsey, who has never even had a senior call-up. Bottom line is he's not left any good central midfield options at home, it's just a weakness for this national team. 

[penguin]

52 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I think this proves my point to be honest. The guy who is probably our most likely option from CM who hasn't been taken is James Ward-Prowse, an off-form midfielder for a side who get overrun in midfield. Probably the next best bet after that would be Ramsey, who has never even had a senior call-up. Bottom line is he's not left any good central midfield options at home, it's just a weakness for this national team. 

I wouldn't disagree that it's a weaker area for us but not a weakness per se, in my eyes anyway. It's all opinions but I really like Ward-Prowse and think he wouldn't look at of place in the Liverpool side as a Henderson replacement and then he's a main-stay for England, equally I could be talking complete bollocks.

Another who's not a very fashionable name but Longstaff has been a fixture of 3rd place Newcastle's midfield and could have been bought as an option for the deeper lying role. 

I think out of a pool of: Bellingham, Rice, Henderson, Ward-Prowse, Phillips, Longstaff & Gallagher whilst arguably (Bellingham aside) not going to sell a large amount of shirts you can put together some definite quality and balance. 

Then on the periphery: Ramsey, Loftus-Cheek & would probably include Wilock in the conversation after Newcastle's start and him being a starter in the middle 3 alongside Longstaff.

[PaulC]

5 hours ago, tinker said:

Think our issue was in the midfield, we lost control of the game there. Mount couldn't get a hold in the game, Rice worked hard and tried to break up play Bellingham huffed and puffed but again like Mount wasnt affective. 

Once we have lost control of the middle the wide players and Kane became isolated, feeding off long balls and hurried clearances.

Southgates in game management is poor, once we lose control of a game he doesn't change our shape and this plays into the hands of any opposition who has a decent coach. This can't be a surprise to anyone, hes has failed at this time and time again. 

The real shame is the squad we have is arguably the strongest we have ever had but I can't help thinking a good coach over the last few years would have led to one of not two trophies in the cabinet. 

We dont really have too many options in midfield though.  I get the argument that a top manager could take us further but none have since Sir Alf Ramsey. Anway if we dont go all the way in this I expect a change will be made. Most of our talented players are still very young and not reached their peak yet. 

Kane I think has become like Rooney. Has to play all the time even when hes not fit, which he clearly wasnt last night. His movements were very laboured. He should be rested for the Wales game. 

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

This just isn't a good argument IMO. A penalty shootout is more or less down to chance; we didn't lose the penalty shootout due to Southgate, ergo arguing 'we'll never win a tournament with him in charge' because we didn't win a penalty shootout doesn't make sense. You *could* argue 'we'll never come up against an easier final than that Italy at Wembley', or 'the squad is declining in quality so we won't get that far again' or any of a number of other arguments but 'we lost a coin toss so we'll never win a coin toss' doesn't make sense, it's not how coin tosses work. 

A penalty shootout isn’t a coin toss. That’s a myth that needs to stop being peddled. It levels the playing field, sure. But it’s not down to chance at all. 

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, PaulC said:

We dont really have too many options in midfield though.  I get the argument that a top manager could take us further but none have since Sir Alf Ramsey. Anway if we dont go all the way in this I expect a change will be made. Most of our talented players are still very young and not reached their peak yet. 

Kane I think has become like Rooney. Has to play all the time even when hes not fit, which he clearly wasnt last night. His movements were very laboured. He should be rested for the Wales game. 

I think that kane has become like Rooney in that our set up and game plan doesn't involve him much meaning that he's coming deeper and deeper to try and touch the ball and it's detrimental to the team

We're set up for a Michael Owen type striker who touches the ball 10 times a game, should be sterling but he's the same, wants far too many touches in poor areas

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

A penalty shootout isn’t a coin toss. That’s a myth that needs to stop being peddled. It levels the playing field, sure. But it’s not down to chance at all. 

Ultimate football skill test

Its not luck

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

In fairness he trained Grealish to play the Southgate way

That year at villa he was arguably in the top 5 players in the league , some of those runs and the confidence in his play was just a joy to watch, I really thought he was going.to go onto that next level of elite .

Instead , 2 years later and Southgate and Pep have  turned him into a shit Mason Mount 

 

[PaulC]

8 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think that kane has become like Rooney in that our set up and game plan doesn't involve him much meaning that he's coming deeper and deeper to try and touch the ball and it's detrimental to the team

We're set up for a Michael Owen type striker who touches the ball 10 times a game, should be sterling but he's the same, wants far too many touches in poor areas

Yes but he seems to be like that these days at Spurs too.  We scored 6 against iran and he wasnt amongst the scorers, ok that can happen but this reliance on him is becoming overplayed. 

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

A penalty shootout isn’t a coin toss. That’s a myth that needs to stop being peddled. It levels the playing field, sure. But it’s not down to chance at all. 

So your argument is that we lost the shootout due to Southgate? (Note: I'm not asking whether you think it's Southgate's fault we didn't win before the shootout, you've already said that, I'm interested in whether you think it's the manager's fault the shootout was lost and if so, why exactly). 

[Mic09]

46 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

So your argument is that we lost the shootout due to Southgate? (Note: I'm not asking whether you think it's Southgate's fault we didn't win before the shootout, you've already said that, I'm interested in whether you think it's the manager's fault the shootout was lost and if so, why exactly). 

Southgate picks the people who take pens. And he picked controversial players to do so (young ones, more likely to be stressed, with little international experience)

It's like not being able to blame southgate for any loss, because all he did was pick the players and it was the players that lost a game.

Yes, it's his fault. Unfortunate, but it's on him. 

[foreveryoung]

We defo lost to Italy because of his poor tactics. We tried to sit back and defend for 70 minutes instead of going for it. That was our biggest chance to date for a trophy and his inability to understand the game took us to penalties.

[Kingman]

Pathetic and finished at the top level, No half decent premiership team would want him and his negativity. 

In fact, i can't even imagine Burnley fans would swap him for Kompany or Plymouth fans swap him for Schumacher 

Just do one Southgate ya charlatan gimp. Will end up being Brookings Nepotism Bitch 

[Tayls]

11 hours ago, Tom13 said:

The amount of shite this bloke talks constantly is scary. How does he justify bringing on Rashford right wing then?

Mental. Maguire doesn’t play centre back for his club either but Southgate still plays him! 

[MaVilla]

i always get amazed...well...many things amaze me about Southgate's selection, but anyways, my point was that i dont know how Sterling gets picked all the time.

The guy really is just a useless forrest gump, he runs really fast, but he's a really poor footballer imo.

I cant even believe Chelsea paid 55m for him, terrible business, tbh tho, i can believe it.

i could go on about the selection for England of other players, but eh, i dont rly care, i cant see me ever enjoying England with that complete numpty in charge.

[DJBOB]

His worst crime was not finding a way through a back line that had two Fulham players on the left and two Nashville players on the right . 

But that US midfield is no joke. Wouldn’t be surprised for a mid table club to snap up Adams at some point. One man army in the middle and I imagine McKennie will get moved at some point. 

[Zatman]

28 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

His worst crime was not finding a way through a back line that had two Fulham players on the left and two Nashville players on the right . 

But that US midfield is no joke. Wouldn’t be surprised for a mid table club to snap up Adams at some point. One man army in the middle and I imagine McKennie will get moved at some point. 

Adams plays for Leeds. Thats as mid table as you get

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, Mic09 said:

Southgate picks the people who take pens. And he picked controversial players to do so (young ones, more likely to be stressed, with little international experience)

It's like not being able to blame southgate for any loss, because all he did was pick the players and it was the players that lost a game.

Yes, it's his fault. Unfortunate, but it's on him. 

I think Grealish was begging to take a penalty but was told no by Southgate

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

So your argument is that we lost the shootout due to Southgate? (Note: I'm not asking whether you think it's Southgate's fault we didn't win before the shootout, you've already said that, I'm interested in whether you think it's the manager's fault the shootout was lost and if so, why exactly). 

That's not my argument. But as a side note yes I think he certainly contributed to it.

My argument is a better manager would have won that game in normal time and not needed a penalty shootout. 

I've never denied Southgate has done a good job. I think he has. My argument is a better manager would have won us a trophy. The Euros was probably our best chance to do that given the route to the final we got. I don't think we'll get a chance like that again, and I don't think Southgate has the tactical know how to beat enough good teams to win a major tournament.

[stewiek2]

I still chuckle remembering the quote that Southgate is the type of bloke who wears a helmet when on his peloton.