Vive_La_Villa Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: I don't get this view that the club is an entity that can be rotten. Way too airy-fairy for me. New owner, enthusiastic and willing to spend; new players of a very good standard for the league; huge supporter base. Keep it simple. It is the manager and at least some of his coaching staff. It is possibly Wyness and Round. It is that simple. It's that simple it's possibly the Ceo and Dof? Maybe it's the players and the owner and the fans and the city too. Simple. Edit: my point is if the problem is just manager and coaches why have we got it wrong for the last 7 years? Edited August 13, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, villianusa said: After the embarrassment of yesterday's game, if he can't get a response and a sustained response over the next 10-15 games then he needs to go. I believe/believed in him, but I am very worried he is going to be the next in line of failed managers. Teams and players can have bad runs, but a manager is the one who has to galvanize everyone and get everything back on track. If he can't, and we lose again Tuesday, then he should be gone by the weekend. I, like most, haven't got a clue who I think can or would want to replace him. With the restriction on spending, what manager will want to come in and work with the players we have? Dean Smith may be! The tactics weren't the best yesterday, but to his defense, some of the players on show yesterday put in a drunken player performance. The players are better than how some played yesterday, so many of them need to answer a few questions also. If he gets 10-15 more games we are taking a huge gamble on the future of this club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villianusa Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, DCJonah said: If he gets 10-15 more games we are taking a huge gamble on the future of this club. Read the 2nd paragraph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 51 minutes ago, Darth Villa said: This for me is spot on. Bruce does have his limitations but the players and coaching staff are too easily able to hide behind him. We need someone else to step up on the pitch and stop the weak displays, clearly not Terry after yesterday! The players should know their role before they step on the pitch. It is all very ad hoc at the moment, like the school playground. It really is down to the manager and his coaching staff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villianusa Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, AntrimBlack said: The players should know their role before they step on the pitch. It is all very ad hoc at the moment, like the school playground. It really is down to the manager and his coaching staff. I totally agree the tactics are down to the manager and coaching, but the passing is down to the players. If you look at some of the passes from the like of Hutton and Lansbury (there were others), this is down to the players. They can pass better than that, and they just aren't doing it. The players have to be accountable and hopefully, Bruce will support this by dropping some of them on Tuesday. If he doesn't, then I might question his sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: It's that simple it's possibly the Ceo and Dof? Maybe it's the players and the owner and the fans and the city too. Simple. Edit: my point is if the problem is just manager and coaches why have we got it wrong for the last 7 years? Well then, explain to me what you mean by the club being rotten. Do you feel that the club is an entity that is afflicted by a bad spirit? I just don't understand why you can think that a club can be afflicted by some malaise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 hours ago, striker said: How often could you say that about Villa under Bruce Tro? This was exactly the point why myself and other posters were debating with you. The problems with Bruce at Villa ran deeper than just bringing in the likes of Whelan to allow Landsbury and Hourihane to play. Villa had the same problems when Jedinak was in the team even though results improved but the performances didn't. That performance yesterday was an accident waiting to happen especially up against a wryly old dog in Warnock who knew how to exploit Bruce's tactical naivety. Trying to hoof it into channels against a Warnock side is tantamount to committing football suicide. Unfortunately Villa won't magically start to play better football under Bruce no matter what system he changes it to. The football will continue to be turgid because on his own admittance he simply doesn't do tactics. He hasn't the capability to coach pass and move football and neither has his current number two. It will be more of the same until he is sacked and hopefully that will be after the game against Reading. Yes, I know you was...but I took the view that the team needed rebuilding and that takes time.....I took the view that based on so many years of failure under other managers ,that to get that balance and blend back is not a 5 minute job. It had to turn out one of us would be wrong....I accept that. I see bigger problems than just that now....i see far inferior players on paper, imposing themselves on us and coming out on top....i see fundamental flaws in our players games far away from setting up and style of play....i see our manager just lost for words in what he is witnessing and has no idea why. Before we all start getting comfortable with the possible removal of what is perceived to be the only problem.....lets just wait and see with bated breath what the new guy does if and when we have a new guy. quite honestly, I am still dumbfounded at the place we have found ourselves after yesterdays game.....and hypothetically if Mourinho came in, the balloons would still be under wraps with me, such is the doubt that this situation left me in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I've tried to defend him and give him a chance but I just can't understand what happened yesterday. My biggest worry is I don't even think the problem is Bruce. There is something still rotten at the club. I have a horrible feeling about this too....I could speculate.....but what use is it, its just that, speculation. The problem is all these managers present and past are just guillotine fodder.....it could well be they are all no good.....but on the other hand? we have had Ray wilkins -Roy Keane- Tim Sherwood- Steve Bruce all been around the game , all made their mark in their playing days they know the score and in theory should know what to look for and here we are with a team who can find within itself to muster such poor displays on a consistent basis.....some teams couldn't do that if the manager asked them to, due to personal pride. I never in a millions years thought that John Terry could captain a team who could crumble like that. It just don't make sense to me ,sorry. Ps maybe we should ask Neil Warnock or Dean Smith what is wrong with us? Edited August 13, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: I don't get this view that the club is an entity that can be rotten. Way too airy-fairy for me. New owner, enthusiastic and willing to spend; new players of a very good standard for the league; huge supporter base. Keep it simple. It is the manager and at least some of his coaching staff. It is possibly Wyness and Round. It is that simple. well in our eyes, that just about is the club....leaving out the owner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Bruce Out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I have a horrible feeling about this too....I could speculate.....but what use is it, its just that, speculation. The problem is all these managers present and past are just guillotine fodder.....it could well be they are all no good.....but on the other hand? we have had Ray wilkins -Roy Keane- Tim Sherwood- Steve Bruce all been around the game , all made their mark in their playing days they know the score and in theory should know what to look for and here we are with a team who can find within itself to muster such poor displays on a consistent basis.....some teams couldn't do that if the manager asked them to, due to personal pride. I never in a millions years thought that John Terry could captain a team who could crumble like that. It just don't make sense to me ,sorry. Ps maybe we should ask Neil Warnock or Dean Smith what is wrong with us? I'm sorry but I just don't buy it, not anymore. The manager is the main problem here. That's not to say there couldn't be other problems too. Bruce has most likely lost the dressing room, which no doubt will yield performances like yesterdays. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, vreitti said: I'm sorry but I just don't buy it, not anymore. The manager is the main problem here. That's not to say there couldn't be other problems too. Bruce has most likely lost the dressing room, which no doubt will yield performances like yesterdays. How many times are we to hear that our manager whoever it be has lost the dressing room. If it is the case then we still have some serious issues among certain players at the club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: How many times are we to hear that our manager whoever it be has lost the dressing room. If it is the case then we still have some serious issues among certain players at the club. Whatever issues there still might be regarding players, that is solely Bruce's responsibility to sort out, wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Players brought in due to their ability on. Certain positions and then played out of them, in a system nobody understands or could even describe. possibly the worst manager I can remember at Villa, RDM, Lambert and Remi Garde all tried to implement a style but with shit players. Bruce has bought players on ability without deciding whether they fit into whatever style he is trying to play. High balls to 5'2" Hogan? Wingers crossing with one or max 2 players in the box etc etc. No more gamesn he simply hasn't earned it and we have to sort this out before the window shuts! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejoker Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 A good coach/manager would improve individual players, and I honestly can't think of a single player that has benefitted from Steve Bruce's 'coaching'. Even Sherwood managed to get a tune out of Grealish in the Premier League. It's not working. Bruce has had his time and the game has moved on. We need our football people (Steve Round) to find the next Wagner and have some imagination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Villa Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: The players should know their role before they step on the pitch. It is all very ad hoc at the moment, like the school playground. It really is down to the manager and his coaching staff. Whilst I can't defend or justify yesterday's performance and agree that Bruce has many failings, I cannot accept that a lack of bottle and desire to compete is solely down to manager and coaching staff. I think the players know their job but something is lacking at the club. I actually think they're paid too much to care and so can't be bothered as another manager will be along shortly, so why worry about anything the current one is asking them to do! Most of the team had an off day, even Chester (who struggled again against a physical forward). Hence we got humiliated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I think that there is every chance Bruce could get a reaction next game and we could gain a couple of devil-may-care victories - to think that will signal a change of fortune would be a false dawn. We have no creativity and no goals in the side. The signing of Samba, the fact that Agbonlahor is still leading the line, playing Hutton over Bree ( and for me Bringing Terry in, I know many won't agree and letting Baker go) all signal that Bruce's time should be up The board must act this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, vreitti said: Whatever issues there still might be regarding players, that is solely Bruce's responsibility to sort out, wouldn't you agree? Yes it is. It doesn't bode well either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, VillaCas said: The board must act this week No Now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I'm sure noone is defending him, or if they are they dont have the clubs best interests at heart. What I do know is that he's got his players, he's had a pre-season, he's had money. And yet nothing has changed. No gameplan, shit football, getting nothing from the players, cant score, cant defend, awful subs at awful times. He is an appalling manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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