Steve Bruce

[wazzap24]

17 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

 I don't think the club is rotten and can't be fixed. You just need the right man steering the ship. One that can handle the huge expectation levels for this club at this level. One that can handle the fact we are currently, for now, the biggest fish in this pond and the fact that other teams will raise their game 10% wanting to take our scalp. One that can instill belief in the players that they are good  enough to handle that, instill that bit of arrogance and confidence that they can play in front of 30k+ expectant, demanding fans every other week and face up to opponents giving their all in wanting to beat Aston Villa. I thought Bruce was that man but it seems he isn't. We find that man then we will be fine as there is nothing rotten or running so deep at this club that can't now be fixed by a good manager.

This. 

There is no rotten core, no curse, no fundamental, deep rooted problem. 

What we are is a massive club, with massive expectation and that has an impact on any player/manager that walks through the door. 

I read a comment earlier that said we just need a decent coach, who can operate on a budget. If only it were that simple. 

[peterms]

10 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

This. 

There is no rotten core, no curse, no fundamental, deep rooted problem. 

What we are is a massive club, with massive expectation and that has an impact on any player/manager that walks through the door. 

I read a comment earlier that said we just need a decent coach, who can operate on a budget. If only it were that simple. 

The expectation levels were raised by some laughably unrealistic promises by Xia when he arrived.  Something about being one of the - what was it - top few clubs in the world.

Following this up with appointing a manager who was very obviously a short-term fix, on the basis that he'd achieved promotion from this division before and therefore would again, was unhelpful.

I wonder what was agreed with Bruce about the task he was to achieve, how long he would be here and so on.  Big talk, coupled with signing someone who was plainly not going to be a world-leading manager, and signings of players of lower Prem/upper Champ level, speaks of strategic confusion and mixed messages.

Bruce has underdelivered, that's true, but the other parts of the leadership team haven't exactly been great.  The big love for Xia that so many display seems misplaced, to me.

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said:

Most of the players have been here for a year or less. It would not be possible for them to have that mentality in that short period.

I agree totally - this current mob have not been subjected to the misery of the last few seasons and therefore cannot blame their shortcomings on being subject to a losing mentality and even if this were the case - surely a man with 4 promotions would at very least be cultivating the seeds of recovery by now ? So for me the blame lies 4 square with Bruce - it's not just losing to Cardiff that worries me it's the manner of defeat which gives the greater concern and begs the question what has been going on all summer at BH

[Eastie]

13 minutes ago, Dave J said:

I agree totally - this current mob have not been subjected to the misery of the last few seasons and therefore cannot blame their shortcomings on being subject to a losing mentality and even if this were the case - surely a man with 4 promotions would at very least be cultivating the seeds of recovery by now ? So for me the blame lies 4 square with Bruce - it's not just losing to Cardiff that worries me it's the manner of defeat which gives the greater concern and begs the question what has been going on all summer at BH

The fact he started bacuna hutton and gabby against hull was extremely worrying - he has bought players but would rather keep them on the bench and play people who gave failed us for years .

also the decision to give Gardner a 4 year deal was madness - Bruce has brought a lot of the problems on himself .

[Mark Albrighton]

51 minutes ago, nnock1984 said:

Reading, Norwich and Bristol - how many points does he need to keep his job? 

I don't think we can lose another game so quickly if we want promotion, so I honestly think he needs 7 points. 

In order to keep his job, I think the board will want a minimum of 5/6 points from those three games. So I think he'd get away with either one defeat and two wins or one win and two draws.

Of course the manner of those hypothetical (likely) defeats and draws would be a factor I would imagine.

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

If we consider the rot goes deeper than the manager then it can go no deeper than the coaching staff and the players in terms of the playing side.

That being the case then he manager is responsible for bringing in his coaching staff. That then leaves the players. Since Bruce has arrived we have signed 11 players. You'd hope he would have signed players with good characters. That he believed would respond to his methods. Players that had it within them to influence others in a positive way. Certainly that is what I saw in the Terry and Whelan signings.

I personally don't think the club is littered with bad eggs certainly no more than you'd find in most clubs. McCormack stepped out of line and was quickly banished. Tshibola is rumoured to have fallen out with coaching staff and has been moved on. Gabby has played up in the past but since Bruce arrived has knuckled down. Same with Grealish. 

I don't think the club is rotten and can't be fixed. You just need the right man steering the ship. One that can handle the huge expectation levels for this club at this level. One that can handle the fact we are currently, for now, the biggest fish in this pond and the fact that other teams will raise their game 10% wanting to take our scalp. One that can instill belief in the players that they are good  enough to handle that, instill that bit of arrogance and confidence that they can play in front of 30k+ expectant, demanding fans every other week and face up to opponents giving their all in wanting to beat Aston Villa. I thought Bruce was that man but it seems he isn't. We find that man then we will be fine as there is nothing rotten or running so deep at this club that can't now be fixed by a good manager.

Its not really was I was alluding to Mark.

I don't think the club is rotten either.....what I was alluding to was i was at a loss to think why players like Sammie Szmodics/Nathaniel Mendez-Laing / Kenneth Zohore/Junior Hoillet,and the likes are not exactly household names but can muster the enthusiasm and urgency, not to mention the physical prowess to give us such an unsettling time during a game.

This has been going back to the cup games like Bradford and Doncaster

I accept all what you say above and hey! ultimately the manager has to carry the can.

perhaps my head is doing overtime, in trying to unearth the problem.

I am just not as confident as some that if and when a new manager arrives the changes we are all hoping for will automatically arrive.

Ps I did moot in a response the Antrim Black that the club in our eyes is Bruce/Whyness/Round and Xia......I don't think the club is rotten no.

Edited August 13, 2017 by TRO

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, Shropshire Lad said:

In order to keep his job, I think the board will want a minimum of 5/6 points from those three games. So I think he'd get away with either one defeat and two wins or one win and two draws.

Of course the manner of those hypothetical (likely) defeats and draws would be a factor I would imagine.

Do you think if say we are thrashed 4-0 at Reading that will force their hand or they will still give him 3 games? 

[wazzap24]

13 minutes ago, peterms said:

The expectation levels were raised by some laughably unrealistic promises by Xia when he arrived.  Something about being one of the - what was it - top few clubs in the world.

Following this up with appointing a manager who was very obviously a short-term fix, on the basis that he'd achieved promotion from this division before and therefore would again, was unhelpful.

I wonder what was agreed with Bruce about the task he was to achieve, how long he would be here and so on.  Big talk, coupled with signing someone who was plainly not going to be a world-leading manager, and signings of players of lower Prem/upper Champ level, speaks of strategic confusion and mixed messages.

Bruce has underdelivered, that's true, but the other parts of the leadership team haven't exactly been great.  The big love for Xia that so many display seems misplaced, to me.

Yeah I can see what you're saying there to be fair, although I'd argue he's backed up his words with player investment, if you look at what we've done on that side since he came in? I disagree on the players signed and strategy, but I can see why you'd make the point. 

Arguably, I'd say the expectation has always been there. I've said before, if you asked any Villa fan, myself included, where our 'true place' in English football is, we'd say top 6 in England, challenging for honours. Rightly so too, because we've spent a lot of time being exactly that. Even since Sky invented football, not many clubs have won two major trophies, been runners up in the league and FA Cup (twice), plus semi finals too. I think we are one of only 8 clubs to win two trophies or more since 1992, so even though our biggest success are 'historic' we've continued to be a relatively major player. 

So yes he (Xia) has raised it, but not beyond the realms of our wildest dreams. When Randy wandered in all those years ago, the plan was to be 'competing in the champions league' and IIRC, Fitzgerald at the time was very clear that they meant 'competing' in the sense of being competitive in the tournament, not just qualifying. 

It's part of the reason I'm losing my s**t with Bruce, he knew all this, he knew what he was getting into. The expectation and pressure can't have come as a shock. I'd also argue he must have known he wouldn't be successful here, if he approached this job in the same way as his others too, but either I'm wrong, or he just doesn't know any other way. 

[wazzap24]

9 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Do you think if say we are thrashed 4-0 at Reading that will force their hand or they will still give him 3 games? 

It'll be a bloodbath if we lose 4-0, Xia would have to quit Twitter. 

[Mark Albrighton]

2 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Do you think if say we are thrashed 4-0 at Reading that will force their hand or they will still give him 3 games? 

I'm really unsure. I wouldn't be surprised if he went after a heavy defeat to Reading. 

Yeah actually, thinking about it, if we're battered with another non-performance I could see him getting the boot.

In some ways, and I can't believe I'm thinking this way but maybe a draw against Reading would be the worst result. Obviously I want us to win, but maybe a defeat would at least possibly provoke a reaction, whereas I think a draw would prolong everything.

[TRO]

52 minutes ago, peterms said:

The expectation levels were raised by some laughably unrealistic promises by Xia when he arrived.  Something about being one of the - what was it - top few clubs in the world.

Following this up with appointing a manager who was very obviously a short-term fix, on the basis that he'd achieved promotion from this division before and therefore would again, was unhelpful.

I wonder what was agreed with Bruce about the task he was to achieve, how long he would be here and so on.  Big talk, coupled with signing someone who was plainly not going to be a world-leading manager, and signings of players of lower Prem/upper Champ level, speaks of strategic confusion and mixed messages.

Bruce has underdelivered, that's true, but the other parts of the leadership team haven't exactly been great.  The big love for Xia that so many display seems misplaced, to me.

The blame train is now leaving the station......just teasing.

What Tony Xia said initially did not resonate with any discerning fans that know how football works it was more new owner bounce for me and a guy trying to raise the doom and gloom that the last incumbent left us with.

He was trying to put a peg in the ground as to his intentions, but we all know ,events in football can change those intentions.

I kinda get what your saying overall and something to consider...I feel Steve Bruce is taking a large hit if I'm being honest, but at the same time I will now be surprised if he turns this around, his next few games will be well scrutinised I suspect.

I am a Tony Xia fan until I have reason not to be....so far so good for me.....but it clearly isn't happening where we all expected it to happen.

I hope they don't tell us the name of the next manager.....then we can't get attached when he is gone ( just kidding)

Edited August 13, 2017 by TRO

[thabucks]

Completely unrealistic dream scenario-next game to be Stam's & Bruces last games in charge . Imagine it... just lamberts Colchester whooping Norwich then joking them. 

[Eastie]

4 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Completely unrealistic dream scenario-next game to be Stam's & Bruces last games in charge . Imagine it... just lamberts Colchester whooping Norwich then joking them. 

As long as he don't buy bacuna back  

[TRO]

3 hours ago, villianusa said:

After the embarrassment of yesterday's game, if he can't get a response and a sustained response over the next 10-15 games then he needs to go. I believe/believed in him, but I am very worried he is going to be the next in line of failed managers. 

Teams and players can have bad runs, but a manager is the one who has to galvanize everyone and get everything back on track. If he can't, and we lose again Tuesday, then he should be gone by the weekend. I, like most, haven't got a clue who I think can or would want to replace him. With the restriction on spending, what manager will want to come in and work with the players we have? Dean Smith may be!

The tactics weren't the best yesterday, but to his defense, some of the players on show yesterday put in a drunken player performance. The players are better than how some played yesterday, so many of them need to answer a few questions also.

good points IMO

[thabucks]

It's a done deal agent Stam's first deal as villa manager selling Bacuna  ... 

 

 

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

31 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Do you think if say we are thrashed 4-0 at Reading that will force their hand or they will still give him 3 games? 

It would be the best thing that could happen the club.

[wazzap24]

6 minutes ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said:

It would be the best thing that could happen the club.

Sorry, but no.

I know your intention is right, but the best thing that could happen is, the manager turns it around, wins the league and gets us promoted. No more upheaval, no more compensation for failure, no more bomb squads full of the last managers cast offs and no more costly changes to backroom staff. 

I recognise that's unlikely now, but I refuse to see losing as the best solution to anything. 

I hope we go there and absolutely bash them. 

[villabromsgrove]

Winning against Reading would be the equivalent of buying a new three piece suit for a very old gentleman with a terminal illness. 

[foreveryoung]

The board ain't gonna put up with shite results after the money they have spent. Bruce will have to start winning or else he will be sacked

If we don't at least get to the play offs this season, whoever is in charge, financially I think we will be in dire trouble. So the risk is not there to be taken with Bruce. 3 more continuous loses I think he will be gone.

[Villarocker]

The one very noticeable thing about Villa this season is the number of foreign players at the club. We had one real foreigner in the pitch at the start of yesterday's game and that player - Elmohamady - has played most of his career here. In fact, he could probably get British citizenship he's been here that long. I know that will change when Kodjia and Jedinak return but even the bench yesterday was mainly home grown.

Is the lack of non British and Irish players intentional by Bruce or is it pure coincidence? Is the lack of foreign players the reason we are struggling so much? Maybe it's that foreign flair that is the magic ingredient we are missing?