Stevo985 Posted August 6, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2017 53 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I would say with regards to subs, bruce waits until the inevitable we concede then waits a further 10 mins before making a sub and when he does they are bizarre as shown ywsterday with the samba and onomah partnership up top. I am not a football manager but even i know that was a idiotic move I don't think the subs were bizarre, they were just too late. The Samba one was a bit weird, but I can see what he was trying to do as a final throw of the dice. And it wasn't Samba and Onomah as a partnership. Gabby and samba were the front two. Onomah was replacing Lansbury as the attacking midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't think the subs were bizarre, they were just too late. The Samba one was a bit weird, but I can see what he was trying to do as a final throw of the dice. And it wasn't Samba and Onomah as a partnership. Gabby and samba were the front two. Onomah was replacing Lansbury as the attacking midfielder. Yeah the Samba thing didn't really bother me either. It was the 50 minutes or so that preceded it where we went from looking decent against a very (apart from Dawson) inexperienced defence to looking pretty clueless that has me more worried. Then there's the picking Bacuna over Hourihane decision, which is baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) If samba scored or set up the winner following a long ball then we'd all be praising Bruce. Even Barca throw Pique up front when trying to win a game. It's not everybody's taste but I think it's a poor one to shoot Bruce down with. Id rather see where we are after 5 games of the new season before I attack the manager. Edited August 6, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, jacketspuds said: Yeah the Samba thing didn't really bother me either. It was the 50 minutes or so that preceded it where we went from looking decent against a very (apart from Dawson) inexperienced defence to looking pretty clueless that has me more worried. Then there's the picking Bacuna over Hourihane decision, which is baffling. I wouldn't say clueless. They just started giving us a game and we didn't deal with it as well as should have. It's why it's so crucial we finish teams off while in so much control. In this league no team will dominate games for 90 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: As blasphemous as this may seem. Sticking with RDM may have worked out better long term. At the time I was mostly pissed off because I wanted us to go up that season. If It was a case where I was sure we werent going up it may have been different. I wish Remi had stayed longer, sacking him and having Black in charge did nobody any favours, especially with certain foreign players getting dumped completely. If Garde had got more of his back room staff in with Tony's money he could have built a team. I guess this talk of preferring certain managers from our recent shitty past show how depressing we are as a club right now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 We saw this sort of 'performance' multiple times last season, 'good' first half yet fail to kill the game, awful second half and get at most one point out of it. Bruce has had a pre-season to fix this and in the first game it's nothing but the same old shit. Alarm bells well and truly ringing already. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 6, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2017 2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: As blasphemous as this may seem. Sticking with RDM may have worked out better long term. At the time I was mostly pissed off because I wanted us to go up that season. If It was a case where I was sure we werent going up it may have been different. Not blasphemous just wrong in my humble... RDM was a charlatan, Bruce was a very decent manager. Right now the jury is out for me if he still is or that is past tense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 6, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If samba scored or set up the winner following a long ball then we'd all be praising Bruce. Even Barca throw Pique up front when trying to win a game. It's not everybody's taste but I think it's a poor one to shoot Bruce down with. Id rather see where we are after 5 games of the new season before I attack the manager. No, no we wouldn't it would just have been a different result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I don't think the subs were bizarre, they were just too late. The Samba one was a bit weird, but I can see what he was trying to do as a final throw of the dice. And it wasn't Samba and Onomah as a partnership. Gabby and samba were the front two. Onomah was replacing Lansbury as the attacking midfielder. I love how you say in your first paragrpah they were not bizarre but then in 2nd you say samba one was wierd It was completely disjointed. Onomah was getting forward, gabby was dropping back and samba was stood in same spot hoping the ball could come to himas he couldnt move very quickly. It was a bizarre mess of tactics from bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 58 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Not blasphemous just wrong in my humble... RDM was a charlatan, Bruce was a very decent manager. Right now the jury is out for me if he still is or that is past tense. Interesting how you say RDM was a charlatan - I doubt many Charlatans have won the champions league ( I know the background to this) I don't think he's a great manager - however I don't think he is worse than Bruce either 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Dave J said: Interesting how you say RDM was a charlatan - I doubt many Charlatans have won the champions league ( I know the background to this) I don't think he's a great manager - however I don't think he is worse than Bruce either Agreed. They're both equally terrible. In fact we haven't had a decent manager since O'Neill, and he had his limitations too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dave J said: Interesting how you say RDM was a charlatan - I doubt many Charlatans have won the champions league ( I know the background to this) I don't think he's a great manager - however I don't think he is worse than Bruce either No hes not a Charlatan. Apart from winning the champions league he got West Brom promoted in his first season there. I think he was very unlucky at Villa. Results didn't got his way but there were quite a few games we should have won Edited August 6, 2017 by PaulC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 The last good manager we had was Houllier since then it has been downhill - I was genuinely excited by Lambert - unfortunately the club became a mill stone around his neck - like it or not we ruined a half decent talent and I'm no longer sure he will recover 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dave J said: I was genuinely excited by Lambert Put the fork down and come quietly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 6, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, Dave J said: Interesting how you say RDM was a charlatan - I doubt many Charlatans have won the champions league ( I know the background to this) I don't think he's a great manager - however I don't think he is worse than Bruce either I don't consider that he did, he was merely caretaker of a side that did and I've my reasons for thinking as I do of him. But this ain't the thread to debate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: The last good manager we had was Houllier since then it has been downhill - I was genuinely excited by Lambert - unfortunately the club became a mill stone around his neck - like it or not we ruined a half decent talent and I'm no longer sure he will recover Didn't he almost relegate us? IIRC McCallister saved us in the last few games of the season? Regardless, Bruce sadly isn't good enough. He'll be gone before the international break. I just hope we get the next one right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: No, no we wouldn't it would just have been a different result. If that's true Trent it means he will never win certain fans over regardless of what we achieve. Im almost waiting for the inevitable sacking and then the new manager that will take us on to great things but instead we end up in League one. I don't like Bruce. But I'm scared of the alternative. It's almost why I didn't want us to sack Lambert or even Sherwood. The problem isn't managers.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 24 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: I don't consider that he did, he was merely caretaker of a side that did and I've my reasons for thinking as I do of him. But this ain't the thread to debate them. That's why I said I know the background Trent. I still say he's not a charlatan though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 6, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If that's true Trent it means he will never win certain fans over regardless of what we achieve. Im almost waiting for the inevitable sacking and then the new manager that will take us on to great things but instead we end up in League one. I don't like Bruce. But I'm scared of the alternative. It's almost why I didn't want us to sack Lambert or even Sherwood. The problem isn't managers.... Sorry but that is nonsense. Your premise was that if we had scored as a result of the Samba change that everyone would be praising Bruce, as if the result is the only issue people have. My point is that had we won, then although people would have been happy I think people would still have had questions about elements of the performance, selection and tactics. Had we won, I think people would still have thought our second half performance was once again poor. I think people would still have thought the selection of Bacuna was a best odd given its about 3 years since he last had a good game, I think people would still have questioned why we are so bloody ineffective in the second half of games. So had the tactic worked, yes he would have got credit for it and yes people would have been pleased with the result . I don't think it would have been universal praise for Brue though. Bruce may never win over certain fans, but that isn't to say he couldn't. I don't think there is a Villa fan alive that wouldn't want him to get us promoted, that wouldn't like to see him have a great season. As for your last line, that the problem isn't managers. Well it isn't the fans and the players were all signed by one failed manager or another. The problem in my view is a succession of poor managerial appointments and their failed transfer activity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 6, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: That's why I said I know the background Trent. I still say he's not a charlatan though I wasn't just referring to Chelsea or what is in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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