Steve Bruce

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Sigh.

I've not attacked you.

You wrote "I don't think one game is enough to judge him on". Those are your words, which are suggesting that people are being hasty judging him on one game. Which I pointed out is not correct.

Now you are saying you are trying to judge him on one game. Sorry but you aren't making any sense.

 

 

Fair enough Trent. Lets continue the discussion later on in the season.

[Jareth]

10 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

See, I think this is completely and utterly wrong. Sorry.

The fans aren't the issue at this club and they are by and large no different to the fans at any club. The notion that one set of football fans are any better or worse than another is frankly cobblers, as demonstrated by the actions of United and Liverpool fans when they had something to grumble about and they wanted a change of boss. The only difference between sets of fans is their experience, the reactions are much the same.

I don't think our expections or impatience are off the scale, far from it in fact. I certainly don't think people think we've a right to anything.

I also don't think people are expecting us to swash buckle our way to the title winning 6-0 and strolling around the park every week, let alone demanding it.

Most of the complaints about Bruce's football aren't about entertainment, they are about effectiveness. Mine certainly are.

In his time here he hasn't won enough games, in part because of his tactics. I couldn't careless about 'sexy football' ( I detest that phrase), I want to see winning football and most fans are the same. Once you have consistent winning football you want a little more. RIght now we don't have good football and we don't have winning football, the later is the more important and pressing issue.

We don't have winning football is a safe statement, because in our 1 game this season, we drew. And our fans do want it all, now, that is evident in the bruce thread. I'm not stating like a loon that we WILL be fine, purely hoping, but we are what we are which is a championship team and the level of dismissing of teams like Hull is ridiculous, and that is down to a historical superiority that we all feel, but which is currently not backed up. All I'm after is a bit of humility about our situation, slagging off manager after manager, 21 year old players, teams like Hull - is all complete folly. As a fan base we're pretty blumin bitter, and this constant dredging up the past and the season just gone is not going to help us in the here and now, it will trap us. 

[TrentVilla]

Just now, Jareth said:

We don't have winning football is a safe statement, because in our 1 game this season, we drew. And our fans do want it all, now, that is evident in the bruce thread. I'm not stating like a loon that we WILL be fine, purely hoping, but we are what we are which is a championship team and the level of dismissing of teams like Hull is ridiculous, and that is down to a historical superiority that we all feel, but which is currently not backed up. All I'm after is a bit of humility about our situation, slagging off manager after manager, 21 year old players, teams like Hull - is all complete folly. As a fan base we're pretty blumin bitter, and this constant dredging up the past and the season just gone is not going to help us in the here and now, it will trap us. 

Nothing wrong with hope mate, I hope I'm wrong, I hope we go up, I hope to never see Samba up front again. I hope for lots of things.

I don't though accept the view that "our fans do want it all, now" I just think that is wrong.

Most of the complaints about yesterday haven't actually been about the result but the performance.

[Zatman]

Problem is Bruce has had the tools and has shown zero progress, no tactical flexibility or no creative mind to chase a win

[AntrimBlack]

10 hours ago, Eastie said:

If dr x does decide to get rid then it would be too late by xmas - I'd expect a change in the October international break if there is to be a change - I'd say Bruce has 9 games to sort it out and get a few wins on the board.

A similar start to last season and the axe will fall.

Don't think he will get that many, Eastie, unless he changes things very quickly.

[wazzap24]

42 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Sorry but that is nonsense.

Your premise was that if we had scored as a result of the Samba change that everyone would be praising Bruce, as if the result is the only issue people have. My point is that had we won, then although people would have been happy I think people would still have had questions about elements of the performance, selection and tactics.

Had we won, I think people would still have thought our second half performance was once again poor. I think people would still have thought the selection of Bacuna was a best odd given its about 3 years since he last had a good game, I think people would still have questioned why we are so bloody ineffective in the second half of games.

So had the tactic worked, yes he would have got credit for it and yes people would have been pleased with the result .

I don't think it would have been universal praise for Brue though.

Bruce may never win over certain fans, but that isn't to say he couldn't. I don't think there is a Villa fan alive that wouldn't want him to get us promoted, that wouldn't like to see him have a great season.

As for your last line, that the problem isn't managers. Well it isn't the fans and the players were all signed by one failed manager or another.

The problem in my view is a succession of poor managerial appointments and their failed transfer activity.

I known we have disagreed previously in this thread, but I'm very much in agreement with this. 

A last minute Samba winner/knock down, whilst providing the obvious positive of the extra points, wouldn't have masked some of Bruce's questionable decisions for me. 

If we'd taken the early chances and killed the game, this debate wouldn't be occurring right now, but in a way, by not doing so it presented Bruce with a chance to show he's moved on a bit from last season. A chance he failed to take. 

I'm still very much in favour  of Bruce, but there were some undeniable issues with that performance. 

 

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Nothing wrong with hope mate, I hope I'm wrong, I hope we go up, I hope to never see Samba up front again. I hope for lots of things.

I don't though accept the view that "our fans do want it all, now" I just think that is wrong.

Most of the complaints about yesterday haven't actually been about the result but the performance.

Ahh I'm boring myself. Just grinding the old axe. There was a lot of complaining about yesterday and it was mostly aimed at the manager, I do get that, I felt it too, but opinion aside I have to go on results as it's only fair and a lot of teams fecked up yesterday in their first competitive game so we are unchanged IMHO and we will have some serious options very soon with Kodjia, Adomah and Jedi back. I'm as impatient as the rest, cannot wait until next game. UTV. 

[vreitti]

7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think we will win games as we should have yesterday.

I really hope we do. Fwiw I think a draw was probably a fair result yesterday.

[Dave J]

3 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I really hope we do. Fwiw I think a draw was probably a fair result yesterday.

Yes I agree also 

[Grasshopper]

6 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

If we are to be promoted this season Bruce has to swap his preferred tactics for a more attacking brand of football. Wyness has said this quite clearly only a couple of days ago. Dr Tony has perhaps hinted at this in his latest tweet.

We have the players to play a more attacking game. We will be the slightly better team potentially in most of our matches this season. What we need from our manager is the strength of character to change the footballing habits that he has made his own over a long managerial career. Can he do it? Will he be prepared to give it a try, or will he ignore what everyone around him seems to have realised and try to defend his way out of this division?

It's up to Steve. He's a really decent likeable bloke and is well regarded among his peers, but can he step out of his comfort zone in order to get the very best out of his players and our Villa team?

Best post since a very long time

[AntrimBlack]

6 hours ago, Jareth said:

Well it's that old chestnut, hopefully we will get promoted, and should that happen I imagine we'll all be pleased. Either way it goes I also hope there'll be none of this I told you so nonsense, we only have faith after all.

Well, I would hope that we would all want to get promoted, and if I thought that we would get promoted playing the shit we played second half yesterday, I would not say a word.

Not likely to happen though, Jareth, is it?

[Grasshopper]

5 hours ago, HAL said:

has five games to show he has somekind of plan or he should get sacked. we cant afford another season down here

Bristol away being that nail

coffin only needs the lid closed on him

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, AntrimBlack said:

Well, I would hope that we would all want to get promoted, and if I thought that we would get promoted playing the shit we played second half yesterday, I would not say a word.

Not likely to happen though, Jareth, is it?

Tis all speculation my friend, I think it is likely. each to their own. 

[Grasshopper]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If samba scored or set up the winner following a long ball then we'd all be praising Bruce. Even Barca throw Pique up front when trying to win a game. It's not everybody's taste but I think it's a poor one to shoot Bruce down with. 

Id rather see where we are after 5 games of the new season before I attack the manager.

you missed out the important factor surrounding the decision

It didnt work

[AntrimBlack]

5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

As blasphemous as this may seem.

Sticking with RDM may have worked out better long term.

At the time I was mostly pissed off because I wanted us to go up that season.

If It was a case where I was sure we werent going up it may have been different.

This had also occurred to me.

[Vive_La_Villa]

14 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I really hope we do. Fwiw I think a draw was probably a fair result yesterday.

At least we are one point up on this time last season

[Jareth]

Just now, AntrimBlack said:

This had also occurred to me.

So we really are getting freaky now. Not only do we want constant manager change, but we are also now looking back romantically at sheer failures of managers thinking what could have been had they had longer. This is messed up. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

you missed out the important factor surrounding the decision

It didnt work

As well many. Takes balls to try these things. Or desperation or not more ideas. All depends on perception and result. 

1 point against a relegated team is ok. That's all I'm looking at right now. 

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If that's true Trent it means he will never win certain fans over regardless of what we achieve. 

Im almost waiting for the inevitable sacking and then the new manager that will take us on to great things but instead we end up in League one. 

I don't like Bruce. But I'm scared of the alternative. It's almost why I didn't want us to sack Lambert or even Sherwood.

The problem isn't managers....

I think it is, y'know.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Jareth said:

So we really are getting freaky now. Not only do we want constant manager change, but we are also now looking back romantically at sheer failures of managers thinking what could have been had they had longer. This is messed up. 

I wish we never sacked Mcliesh. Who knows what he could have achieved!!