Steve Bruce

[This Could Be Rotterdam]

Watford to start the season poorly and sack 'silver', xia to take the opportunity and sack Bruce. 

We won't get better than yesterday out of Bruce. 

[DaveAV1]

We need a manager for the future, not the past. 

[TheStagMan]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

You've switched from talking about the experts employed at Villa to employ our manager to talking about the media (who are all clearly biased).

Experts at Villa = wrong

Pundits and media = wrong

Small but vocal pocket of fans want Villa to keep hiring and firing managers that have got us nowhere so far = right 

 

What? where did I say that? Stop making stuff up. 

I said that we have management (never used the word experts) at Villa park to identify and employ a new manager. The implication of that statement being that I trust them to do so (rather than me having to produce a list of potential managers for them). I would therefore hope that they have considered that Bruce is possibly not going to make the grade and have therefore a shortlist of alternatives. From Dr X's tweets, it sounds like they do.

I never changed the subject to the media. YOU asked a very specific question about "experts" in the media backing Bruce, which I answered with my opinion. My opinion being that I will take what they are saying with a pinch of salt and instead look at what I know about my own club and have seen with my own eyes.

I will follow that up with a question - have you ever heard any pundits saying that a manager is terrible and should be sacked? It is very rare that they will. Especially if that manager is "one of the boys".

As for your last point/dig. I hardly think allowing a manager to have almost a full season (most of last and the start of this) and two transfer windows before being upset about the lack of progress is "wanting to keep hiring and firing" candidates. As I have said previously if there was a glimmer of light then I would be happy. There is not, There has not been a single game where we have played well for the full 90 minutes during his tenure. Yesterday shows that despite the mystical pre-season that will sort out all our problems nothing has changed. 

I think you will also find that the percentage of Villa fans who are uneasy/concerned about Bruce's ability to get ups promoted is not that small. And will continue to grow unless performances (not just results) change.

 

How long will you wait before accepting it is not working? 10 more games, end of the season, another couple of seasons?

 

 

 

 

[Guest av1]

3 hours ago, Bunnski said:

In the pre season games in Germany we played it out from the back and showed we can actually play good football as we have the players to do it but then yesterday it's back to the same old shit from last season. Bruce out!

Its worth having a read through the reactions thread from the game against Brighton on the final day of tbe season Here. 

It was actually a half decent performance. I bring this up because like pre season, these games meant nothing. The minute there something riding on it Bruce will always revert to type, and his "tactics" exposed. 

 

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, TheStagMan said:

How long will you wait before accepting it is not working? 10 more games, end of the season, another couple of seasons?

Sooo let's swap managers again, having not even given the current incumbent an actual season of football? It doesn't really matter that Bruce is not Guardiola, what matters is that this club stops the drama and insists on stability. We will never, ever, get a settled team if we can't give managers any time. Bruce will have to be same/worse than RDM over 10 games to get sacked - that won't happen, I am certain, and if it means all the moaning carries on then good, this club needs less drama, more time and above all some patience. 

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

What? where did I say that? Stop making stuff up. 

45 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

I don't know, but then it is not my job to know. That's why we have a management team in place at the club. 

 

33 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Oh yes, the old boys network of Bruce's mates. The pundits and experts who thought both RDH and Tim Sherwood were good manager who were unfairly treated. 

Behave!

 

 

[TheStagMan]

2 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Sooo let's swap managers again, having not even given the current incumbent an actual season of football? It doesn't really matter that Bruce is not Guardiola, what matters is that this club stops the drama and insists on stability. We will never, ever, get a settled team if we can't give managers any time. Bruce will have to be same/worse than RDM over 10 games to get sacked - that won't happen, I am certain, and if it means all the moaning carries on then good, this club needs less drama, more time and above all some patience. 

He has had most of last season, and will likely get a good chunk of this one. He has not shown the improvement that is needed. 

OK, lets wait 10 games. 

Lets say we are then mid-table. What then?

 

Stability is good. Consistency is good. Unless you are stable by being consistently crap. Sticking with something hoping it *might* come good is madness, particularly when it has shown no signs of doing so.

Edited August 6, 2017 by TheStagMan

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Sooo let's swap managers again, having not even given the current incumbent an actual season of football? It doesn't really matter that Bruce is not Guardiola, what matters is that this club stops the drama and insists on stability. We will never, ever, get a settled team if we can't give managers any time. Bruce will have to be same/worse than RDM over 10 games to get sacked - that won't happen, I am certain, and if it means all the moaning carries on then good, this club needs less drama, more time and above all some patience. 

Stability with the wrong guy is just as damaging as chopping and changing. 

[Jareth]

Just now, TheStagMan said:

He has had a season.

No he hasn't.

[Jareth]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Stability with the wrong guy is just as damaging as chopping and changing. 

Well you may never know if the manager was the right guy if you sack him after 6 months. 

[DCJonah]

Just now, Jareth said:

Well you may never know if the manager was the right guy if you sack him after 6 months. 

I think sometimes you can get a good idea. He's been in charge for around 40 games and had two transfer windows. I think that's enough time to get a good idea about where things are going, it doesn't mean it will always work out that way but to me it looks like something that isn't going to be successful. 

I think that was fairly obvious with Lambert after about 12 months but sticking with him made us worse. It was obvious early with Sherwood and sticking with him wouldn't have made things better. Giving McLeish another year or allowing Eric Black to have more time wouldn't have done the club any good IMO. 

The idea that stability is all that's needed is wrong. Stability only helps when you've got someone worth sticking with. 

Bruce has not done enough to convince me that sticking with him regardless of performances and results will result in promotion. Given Tony's dismissal of RDM and his tweets this morning about player meetings and unhappy with a few things, I don't think he fully buys into the idea of just giving Bruce as much time as he likes. 

[TheStagMan]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

 

Nice selective posting.......So where in there have I said that the management at Villa Park are Experts, and where have I said they were wrong?

Notice how the topic got onto the media....

52 minutes ago, Genie said:

So it's fair to assume that the experts think you're wrong as they're backing our current manager (who is incredibly highly regarded as a promotion specialist). 

[villabromsgrove]

Somewhere between 30 to 35 minutes into the game Bruce was very vocal yelling at Bacuna to drop deeper. He then used both hands raised in front of his chest with a pushing motion (towards our goal) to clearly indicate to a couple of midfielders that he wanted them to drop back. That was the point where our grip on the game loosened. We allowed the space to develop in front of our midfield for Hull to play into, and they gained confidence and used that space to have a go at us culminating in three attempts at goal just before half time. That should have rung warning bells for SB.

When we came out in the second half and again sat deep it was clear what the half time team talk had focussed on, and it wasn't taking the game to Hull and denying them space. We were much the better team and had frightened Hull to death when we attacked their box in numbers in the first part of the match, so why did Bruce feel the need to revert to our negative defensive "tactic" that proved so damaging last season? 

 

[Guest av1]

10 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Well you may never know if the manager was the right guy if you sack him after 6 months. 

He has had 11 months, 1 pre-season and spent about £25m. Nothing has changed in that time and yesterday we finished a home game with Christopher Samba up front. 

Lets not pretend we are on the guys back after 5 minutes in the job, or bemoan FFP restrictions. There are managers doing a far better job in more trying conditions, and many more that would craw through sh#t to inherent the "mess" Bruce walked into. 

He has had ample time and resources to at least have shown some improvement. There has been nothing. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by av1

[TheStagMan]

8 minutes ago, Jareth said:

No he hasn't.

My apologies, he has only had 40+ games (including Cup and pre season). Not nearly enough time.... 

[KSV]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Stability with the wrong guy is just as damaging as chopping and changing. 

I agree but this season is CRUCIAL. If we were to change him at the end of the season.. i agree get rid. We missed that boat. We bought players like Elmo who HE wanted. We have a lot of HIS signings.. a new manager may come in and clean sweep and may take us another 2-3 years to build. Its too late in such a crucial season with parachute payments etc.. we need to go this year.. at this stage of the season with his signings and his pre season.. i would say 95% of the players backing him.. it would do more harm than good. He has had 4 promotions for a reason.. he knows how to galvanize players and close out matches to win games. Its a long problem we have had.. he will fix it if we keep he faith and dont add to the pressure. 

FWIW.. i would gone for a Wagner style manager.. but its too little too late now. I still think Bruce can do the job though.. in the Premier League.. a different story.. no chance.. i would start a fresh. 

[sne]

1 minute ago, villabromsgrove said:

Somewhere between 30 to 35 minutes into the game Bruce was very vocal yelling at Bacuna to drop deeper. He then used both hands raised in front of his chest with a pushing motion (towards our goal) to clearly indicate to a couple of midfielders that he wanted them to drop back. That was the point where our grip on the game loosened. We allowed the space to develop in front of our midfield for Hull to play into, and they gained confidence and used that space to have a go at us culminating in three attempts at goal just before half time. That should have rung warning bells for SB.

When we came out in the second half and again sat deep it was clear what the half time team talk had focussed on, and it wasn't taking the game to Hull and denying them space. We were much the better team and had frightened Hull to death when we attacked their box in numbers in the first part of the match, so why did Bruce feel the need to revert to our negative defensive "tactic" that proved so damaging last season? 

 

That's the thing you get with Bruce.

In any given situation he will always take the cautious, "safe" route.

[DCJonah]

Just now, KSV said:

I agree but this season is CRUCIAL. If we were to change him at the end of the season.. i agree get rid. We missed that boat. We bought players like Elmo who HE wanted. We have a lot of HIS signings.. a new manager may come in and clean sweep and may take us another 2-3 years to build. Its too late in such a crucial season with parachute payments etc.. we need to go this year.. at this stage of the season with his signings and his pre season.. i would say 95% of the players backing him.. it would do more harm than good. He has had 4 promotions for a reason.. he knows how to galvanize players and close out matches to win games. Its a long problem we have had.. he will fix it if we keep he faith and dont add to the pressure. 

FWIW.. i would gone for a Wagner style manager.. but its too little too late now. I still think Bruce can do the job though.. in the Premier League.. a different story.. no chance.. i would start a fresh. 

Yeah, good points. 

I actually agree that right now is probably not the right time. But if we haven't got around 20 points after 10 games I would 100% take the chance and get rid. 

Like you say it's crucial that we go up and if we aren't in the mix after around 10 games I don't see the point in giving him more time to waste. 

[KSV]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think sometimes you can get a good idea. He's been in charge for around 40 games and had two transfer windows. I think that's enough time to get a good idea about where things are going, it doesn't mean it will always work out that way but to me it looks like something that isn't going to be successful. 

I think that was fairly obvious with Lambert after about 12 months but sticking with him made us worse. It was obvious early with Sherwood and sticking with him wouldn't have made things better. Giving McLeish another year or allowing Eric Black to have more time wouldn't have done the club any good IMO. 

The idea that stability is all that's needed is wrong. Stability only helps when you've got someone worth sticking with. 

Bruce has not done enough to convince me that sticking with him regardless of performances and results will result in promotion. Given Tony's dismissal of RDM and his tweets this morning about player meetings and unhappy with a few things, I don't think he fully buys into the idea of just giving Bruce as much time as he likes. 

normal circumstances i would agree... but we were  a basket case of a club. It was never going to be a quick fix at this club. Top that off.. we had a new manager.. staff.. a huuuge turn over of players. Last season was never going to happen.. if Kodjia and Jedinak were available during that terrible January.. we may have even snuck into play offs. 

Lets just see this next few months out. He may suprise you. I hope. 

[TheStagMan]

5 minutes ago, KSV said:

I agree but this season is CRUCIAL. If we were to change him at the end of the season.. i agree get rid. We missed that boat. We bought players like Elmo who HE wanted. We have a lot of HIS signings.. a new manager may come in and clean sweep and may take us another 2-3 years to build. Its too late in such a crucial season with parachute payments etc.. we need to go this year.. at this stage of the season with his signings and his pre season.. i would say 95% of the players backing him.. it would do more harm than good. He has had 4 promotions for a reason.. he knows how to galvanize players and close out matches to win games. Its a long problem we have had.. he will fix it if we keep he faith and dont add to the pressure. 

FWIW.. i would gone for a Wagner style manager.. but its too little too late now. I still think Bruce can do the job though.. in the Premier League.. a different story.. no chance.. i would start a fresh. 

FWIW I do agree with this. I do think we have missed the boat in sacking him. But I am not going to pretend everything is rosy, and I am fully expecting there to be a point where we have no choice. 

I do disagree with the bold bit though. Yesterday was the exact opposite. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by TheStagMan