Steve Bruce

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Discussing the style employed by a football club 35 years ago is absolutely pointless. We're not West Ham, we don't have a 'way'. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, sne said:

How bout now?

Is he modelling watches now too.?

[rodders0223]

6 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Both of those players (presumably Grealish and Green?) were coming back from 3/4 weeks out injured. Amavi is fit and had been playing well, IMO, and had a decent game.

Was it not Amavi who drew both fouls for the sending off?
Seems a strange gripe to have, that's as good as an assist for me.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

 

This is where I think he'll fail

Tro, I have to strongly agree with this.

Yes we defended as a whole team and had a solid defence with 2 top class keepers (Rimmer & Spinks). But once we got the ball we didnt fanny around, we didnt hoof, we used pur options to get the ball forward quickly with skill and accuracy.

Bremner was a trojan, Sid was the best passer of a ball ever to wear a Villa shirt. Mortimer marauding through the midfield on those sticky pitches riding tackles was a majestic sight to see, The combination of Morley, Shaw & Withe caused chaos and panik with skill, pace, power & movement.

I always get annoyed that we were put down at the time and labelled as just a bunch of bastards who worked hard. Ipswich were the darlings of the BBC because of their fascination in making Bobby Robson the next Alf Ramsey. They had the romantic foreigners in midfield and Mariner (the David Cassidy look-a-like) as the pinup boys. In truth it was Wark & Brazil (both Scots) who made them tick (both as ugly as Ian Dowie).

We competed with the best at the time and came out winners.

There were only 2 games at that time where we looked 2nd best, In Rotterdam (Bayern were far superior technically) and Juve with Platini running things.

We played good attractive football in a no nonsense manner, hardly surprising on thise pitches.  A nowadays Barca wouldn't have been able to string 3 passes together.

24 wins in a season.....I loved it.

back to today

There will always be those fans in every club that want more.....I guess a similar debate percolates at Arsenal, but about a slightly different gripe....more to do with resilience.

Man U fans probably think they have lost their swashbuckling style.

I would guess some Albion fans who where brought up on the " three degrees" and Ron Atkinsons style......baulk at Tony Pulis.

I think we should be grateful for small mercies

[sheepyvillian]

That's what VT is for ,a platform to express ones opinion . And people can label that opinion however they like . It's nothing to do with a " now culture " .

Let's keep it real ,all I would like ,is to see my team playing a better brand of football ,nothing more ,nothing less . It doesn't matter if you find it galling ,I'm sure many others do , but that doesnt mean I become silent . Your in no position to tell me to put anything to the back of my mind . 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

5 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

That's what VT is for ,a platform to express ones opinion . And people can label that opinion however they like . It's nothing to do with a " now culture " .

Let's keep it real ,all I would like ,is to see my team playing a better brand of football ,nothing more ,nothing less . It doesn't matter if you find it galling ,I'm sure many others do , but that doesnt mean I become silent . Your in no position to tell me to put anything to the back of my mind . 

You're a bit hypersensitive there buddy. I have countered your opinion with one of my own and you have took that to mean I am telling you what you can or can't think or say. 

Not at all, I'm simply expressing my opinion that I think it is ludicrous. I am in a position to tell you that. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[sheepyvillian]

2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

You're a bit hypersensitive there buddy. I have countered your opinion with one of my own and you have took that to mean I am telling you what you can or can't think or say. 

Not at all, I'm simply expressing my opinion that I think it is ludicrous. I am in a position to tell you that. 

It's ludicrous to want my team to play a better brand of football ? You know what , I think I'll keep it ludicrous , see how galling you find that .

[dont_do_it_doug.]

27 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

It's ludicrous to want my team to play a better brand of football ? You know what , I think I'll keep it ludicrous , see how galling you find that .

That's not what I said. 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

It's ludicrous to want my team to play a better brand of football ? You know what , I think I'll keep it ludicrous , see how galling you find that .

I think you have a right to voice your opinion and If you think the football is pants, then that is your take on it.

However, for those of us that are taking the wins in a grateful manner, without criticising the football being displayed......it does come across a tad ungrateful.

Its no good anyone embracing the demise and then appearing to dismiss it, when the rate of progress is being discussed.....Its like I hear it ,but don't want to hear it.

Its been monumental this repair job......We are far from the finishing thing.....so to be moaning about the football so early is like" Picking Flies".

I do not think for one minute Steve Bruce is happy with the spectacle.......but he is still putting the footings in and we are bitching about the garage door.

your prayers will be answered....all in good time.

[markavfc40]

3 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

We aren't playing good football , and surely I'm entitled to be unhappy about that,and only when we start to play in a way that I find pleasing ,only then will my unhappiness start to subside , of course I'm happy when we win ,thats a given ,but do I like the style in which we win ? Not particularly .

So there you are , it is what it is .

I don't think there is any issue with you wanting us to play better football mate. I think on top of good results that would be the icing on the cake.

The problem I have with it is that I don't think you can expect it now.

I got to be honest I don't really know what style of play Bruce favours. I haven't really taken that much notice of his career or watched his sides that closely even when they have played against us. If he is true to his words though then I know he has said he favours 4-4-2 or at least a variation on it that allows him to play two up top.

He hasn't therefore had much chance to play his ideal formation. He came in and had to cut his cloth to suit. He had to find a system to get the best out of what he inherited and initially he went 4-3-3 and got results. In January we then lost Kodjia, Gestede was sold, McCormack didn't want to know and RHM got ideas above his station. That left us with Gabby. We also saw another big over haul of the squad and it unfortunately took a number of weeks for us to get close to clicking. As part of that over haul we signed Hogan with the intention it seems to play Bruce's favoured 2 up top but he quickly got injured and we were again left with one fit forward.

Basically I don't think we are playing the way Bruce wants us to play. Given what he has said even after we have been winning then he wants us to keep the ball better. He also wants to play two up top but hasn't really had chance to bed in that formation.

I am also not so sure you ever really see how a manager would ideally like to play when he comes in part way through a season without a pre season. Those that insist on playing a certain way regardless of what they inherit will often struggle. Just look at Zola as an example trying to get players to play in a style they simply aren't used to. I notice last few games he has gone mega defensive to grind out results.

For now I would try to just be happy that we are winning. The good football can hopefully come further down the line. Whatever way you cut the cake though winning football regardless of style of play is a million times better than the in the main losing, dour crap we had been served up over the previous handful of years.

Edited April 3, 2017 by markavfc40

[srsmithusa]

Delighted with recent results (impossible not to be).  I was calling for Bruce's head in February.  But that's because I couldn't see any evidence that the culture and attitude of the club was changing, or being addressed.  It appears that either he addressed it behind closed doors, or found some way past it, without addressing it directly.  Either way, it shows clear evidence that it's working.  So keep that rolling contract rolling.

[Eastie]

20 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

Delighted with recent results (impossible not to be).  I was calling for Bruce's head in February.  But that's because I couldn't see any evidence that the culture and attitude of the club was changing, or being addressed.  It appears that either he addressed it behind closed doors, or found some way past it, without addressing it directly.  Either way, it shows clear evidence that it's working.  So keep that rolling contract rolling.

Good man

[NottingVilla]

Winning with 30% possession at home is not 'winning' football its 'getting lucky and on the edge of being found out football'. Go back a few months and we was playing this 'winning' football then lost 7 out of 8 games. Even by our recent years of highly shite standards, thats a silly amount of matches to lose.

Manchester United play droll but winning football. We play droll but getting lucky at the football.

If this is what you want then fine, but don't expect automatic next season. Expect play-offs at best.

Edited April 3, 2017 by NottingVilla

[a m ole]

2 minutes ago, NottingVilla said:

Winning with 30% possession at home is not 'winning' football its 'getting lucky and on the edge of being found out football'. Go back a few months and we was playing this 'winning' football then lost 7 out of 8 games. Even by our recent years of highly shite standards, thats a silly amount of matches to lose.

Manchester United play droll but winning football. We play droll but getting lucky at the football.

If this is what you want then fine, but don't expect automatic next season. Expect play-offs at best.

possession is a massively simplistic statistic. I don't think you're in a position to start telling people what to expect.

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

Delighted with recent results (impossible not to be).  I was calling for Bruce's head in February.  But that's because I couldn't see any evidence that the culture and attitude of the club was changing, or being addressed.  It appears that either he addressed it behind closed doors, or found some way past it, without addressing it directly.  Either way, it shows clear evidence that it's working.  So keep that rolling contract rolling.

I think the problem for is , we don't see the work going in at BMH.....Good or bad.

We can only judge from what we see on match day......He sees a bigger picture.

No one can be 100% sure any manager will make it at any club.....never mind turning this around.

There were many factors for me, that made me think....SB was the right choice or Sam Allardyce......It needed a larger than life character, who hadn't been gift wrapped anything, someone who has tread the boards....not a "fly by night" a man of substance......I think he is all that.

don't forget, the whole club was lacking in confidence,not just the team, that is a huge responsibility, not for the faint hearted or inexperienced.

There is still a long way to go and who knows, setbacks can still slip in......but I think we are on our way.

Ps I was also impressed with his demeanor during our bad run over Xmas.....took everything in his stride, no panic, steady confidence.....Its important to see your manager in the midst of adversity....it bodes well.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 minutes ago, NottingVilla said:

Winning with 30% possession at home is not 'winning' football its 'getting lucky and on the edge of being found out football'. Go back a few months and we was playing this 'winning' football then lost 7 out of 8 games. Even by our recent years of highly shite standards, thats a silly amount of matches to lose.

Manchester United play droll but winning football. We play droll but getting lucky at the football.

If this is what you want then fine, but don't expect automatic next season. Expect play-offs at best.

Droll doesn't mean what you think it means bud

I disagree vehemently with the part in bold. You can have 70% of the possession and do feck all with it, we don't have to go too far back in our history to find a manager who demonstrated that strongly. Teams would sit back, suck us in then ruin us on the break much as we did to Norwich on Saturday.

That's not to say it was pretty, or even that it is sustainable over a long period (we don't have 30% possession every week), but it is proven that you can win football matches playing that way. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

By the way to my mind possession does not equal attractive. I assume these are two separate debates? 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, NottingVilla said:

Winning with 30% possession at home is not 'winning' football its 'getting lucky and on the edge of being found out football'. Go back a few months and we was playing this 'winning' football then lost 7 out of 8 games. Even by our recent years of highly shite standards, thats a silly amount of matches to lose.

Manchester United play droll but winning football. We play droll but getting lucky at the football.

If this is what you want then fine, but don't expect automatic next season. Expect play-offs at best.

If you can't see for yourself  the difference in our circumstances during the Xmas/January period to now......then I'm not going to explain.

Its been said enough times.....you either accept it or you don't ......clearly you don't.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

By the way to my mind possession does not equal attractive. I assume these are two separate debates? 

Its a good point....good football is in the eye of the beholder.......some fans are turned on by watching good defensive work.....each to their own.

Its kinda tangible v intangible.

I'll stick to the tangible bit for now...... 6 wins.

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Droll doesn't mean what you think it means bud

I disagree vehemently with the part in bold. You can have 70% of the possession and do feck all with it, we don't have to go too far back in our history to find a manager who demonstrated that strongly. Teams would sit back, suck us in then ruin us on the break much as we did to Norwich on Saturday.

That's not to say it was pretty, or even that it is sustainable over a long period (we don't have 30% possession every week), but it is proven that you can win football matches playing that way. 

Dave, wasn't it Graham Taylors instruction to his troops in his early days?

" Don't let them run the legs off you"....." pick them up when they get in to the danger zone".....if they take the ball for a ride ,let them, keep your shape and have them when they raid again".....it was basically to hell with possession..............AT THIS STAGE OF OUR DEVELOPMENT.

words to that effect.

Edited April 3, 2017 by TRO