Steve Bruce

[TRO]

2 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

You missed the bit where he has bankrupted 2 clubs, relegated a further 6 and started world war III and people will still be on here defending him, because they have to stop the "haters"

stuff the haters.....who cares?

I just cannot find it in my heart to not find some comfort from a manager of my club at the time,who has presided over 24 wins in a season and was a couple of goals away from promotion......I won't apologise for defending that against selected criticisms.

[kurtsimonw]

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Dream job my ass! It’s probably one of the worst jobs around right now.

 It’s all about the Benjamins! 

But he's a fan, why wouldn't it be a dream job? 

Apparently Bruce left a mess, why would any self respecting Villa fan take that job? 

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Any Championship manager would have taken a PL job, in a vacuum, yes. It's a no brainer. But like I said, circumstances matter.

Like my example above, any player would move from Villa to Manchester United or Liverpool or Manchester City. When Ashley Young and Benteke do it with no fuss, it hurts but it's fine. But when Delph and Downing do it after literally claiming not even weeks beforehand that they wouldn't leave the club, then it's a dick move.

In Downing's case, we signed him with a broken leg, nursed him back to health and gave him a platform to regain his form and he left us at the first opportunity without so much as a thank you. This shares parallels with Steve Bruce in that he was given a lot of leeway and good grace by Wednedsay, and his comments on the situation were disrespectful towards the club that put a lot of faith in him. Also, resigning instead of waiting for the clubs to reach an agreement (like he said originally he would in his comments) means that Wednesday likely aren't getting the full compensation. Reports are saying that they won't be compensated for the backroom staff that is following him to Newcastle for example. This is all also assuming that every manager, in these particular circumstances, would even have taken the Newcastle job which I don't necessarily agree with but I admit that's obviously hard to quantify.

Reports are Wednesday are getting 4m of compensation so I don’t think that really holds up. Likely that’s the reason it took Bruce so long to resign because they were sorting compensation out. 

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, Zatman said:

Rafa left on June 24th, he could have went to Wednesday board then and said if for some reason Newcastle come in for my can I leave. Gives Wednesday nearly 3 weeks to prepare a backup in case they did

Well he could yes. But he probably had no idea he would be offered the job. 

And if he did that and wasn’t offered the job then it looks like he’s trying to find the first opportunity to jump ship. Fans would turn against him straight away. 

Just like I don’t think any championship manager would turn the Newcastle job down, I don’t think any championship manager would have done what you’ve suggested there. It’s pie in the sky stuff 

[ciggiesnbeer]

Weds fans should be bloody delighted. Not only did they dodge a bullet they got paid for it. The rest of us had to pay him off.

Luckiest club in football.

Edited July 17, 2019 by ciggiesnbeer

[Keyblade]

25 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Reports are Wednesday are getting 4m of compensation so I don’t think that really holds up. Likely that’s the reason it took Bruce so long to resign because they were sorting compensation out. 

The "exclusive report" by The S*n that broke the compensation story says that in addition to the 4m, Chansiri feels hard done by not getting compo for his backroom staff, in what they say is an effort by Bruce an Ashley to force the move through. 

Don't see what could be the point in holding out on resigning? If you're holding out to see the club get their due, surely you'd stick around til the end of the ordeal? There would be no point handing in a letter of resignation if the clubs already agreed compensation. He'd just be free to leave.

The logical explanation is that he did it to extradite the process. Whether or not he was aware that Wednesday would still get compensated is a complete unknown, but suggesting he resigned to help Wednesday in some way is just...bizarre.

[bobzy]

I imagine the resignation has happened to push through the move - no idea how it all works out with compensation, but I don't think it helps Sheff Wed in any way at all.  Could well be that their chairman/board were unwilling to let Bruce leave at all and this was the only way he could get the Newcastle job.

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

But he's a fan, why wouldn't it be a dream job? 

Apparently Bruce left a mess, why would any self respecting Villa fan take that job? 

He did leave a mess but we had new owners that seemed to understood the situation and was allowing a new manager time and backing to turn it around. 

It will be interesting to see if Bruce is given the same level of support.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

The "exclusive report" by The S*n that broke the compensation story says that in addition to the 4m, Chansiri feels hard done by not getting compo for his backroom staff, in what they say is an effort by Bruce an Ashley to force the move through. 

Don't see what could be the point in holding out on resigning? If you're holding out to see the club get their due, surely you'd stick around til the end of the ordeal? There would be no point handing in a letter of resignation if the clubs already agreed compensation. He'd just be free to leave.

The logical explanation is that he did it to extradite the process. Whether or not he was aware that Wednesday would still get compensated is a complete unknown, but suggesting he resigned to help Wednesday in some way is just...bizarre.

but what has this really got to do with us?.......My understanding is we are debating what he did or didn't do for us,while he was with us, this has no bearing on that.....What he does after Villa....who cares?

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He did leave a mess but we had new owners that seemed to understood the situation and was allowing a new manager time and backing to turn it around. 

It will be interesting to see if Bruce is given the same level of support.

Not trying to labour the point, but that is in stark contrast to how Dean Smith reported on the squad on his initial appraisal......someone is right and someone is wrong here.

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not trying to labour the point, but that is in stark contrast to how Dean Smith reported on the squad on his initial appraisal......someone is right and someone is wrong here.

That’s because it’s not in Dean Smiths nature to focus on the negatives to make himself look like a hero.  He has not once done that since taking over. 

I bet if the roles were reversed the first thing Bruce would have pointed out to fans was the mess the centre half position was in and how he had to sort it out. 

Btw I wouldnt say Bruce left a complete mess. That would be fair as he signed some very good attacking players.

He just left a defensive mess.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[TRO]

I think the fact that it is Steve Bruce who we are talking about, has caused some folk to miss the point....The personal dislike of the man has coloured folks judgment....personally, I was talking about what he has or hasn't done more than him, himself, but failed to get that point over.

On another note.....

I was not happy with the football Martin O'Neill presided over......quite direct, some exciting moments in a game, very predictable IMV and we wasn't dominant at home, but effective away from home .....I wasn't happy with many of his signings, but happy with a few.

However....6-6-6 cannot be ignored, despite my reservations......I don't even like the man, but appreciate some of his better points.

I would take 6-6-6 over the next 3 years and I would suspect Dean Smith would too.

[TRO]

54 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

That’s because it’s not in Dean Smiths nature to focus on the negatives to make himself look like a hero.  He has not once done that since taking over. 

I bet if the roles were reversed the first thing Bruce would have pointed out to fans was the mess the centre half position was in and how he had to sort it out. 

Btw I wouldnt say Bruce left a complete mess. That would be fair as he signed some very good attacking players.

He just left a defensive mess.

Dean Smith hasn't had to defend himself yet and lets hope he doesn't have to....football is not always plain sailing, most of the Top guys have had iffy times, lets just hope the fanbase sticks with Dean in such circumstances and he hasn't got to remind folk of his successes.

Oh so its a part mess now?    .....not a full or complete mess.

The centre Back position was regrettable.....It was a problem, no denying that( mess? quite a dramatic word that IMV)....John Terry retired and we had no money as I understand to right the wrongs of the policy we adopted to try to get up.....unlike now we have got the funds to change course and player direction.I couldn't quite understand his position in letting Elphick go, ( He did make some poor errors in previous games)but I was not privvy to timings etc....I think at the eleventh hour he thought he got Makoudi and it proved to be not the case, I also think he was under the cosh for wages, so mistakes get made in such circumstances.

I understand the nature of Dean and yes he is a top man, I have already highlighted the humility of the man, which I think is a great asset......but lets be clear here, Dean Smith was under no pressure from anyone to make comments about the squad, he chose to talk from the heart as you so eloquently describe he does generally.I think he gets on well with SB, he has already made positive references towards the guy, which he doesn't have to do....He could have chose to say nothing, which most folk do, when it suits.

No I think this exchange of views....misses the point somewhat.

I am much, much happier with Dean in charge, for a whole variety of reasons, mainly the style of football.....where I differ from many on here, I also appreciate SOME of the things SB brought to our club, like Tammy, JT and John McGinn and was instrumental in getting Ollie Stevenson to work with Jack one on one and we all know the affect that had.

Ps Dean must have felt a need to defend SB too.....when he said straight after the final the goals were from 2 x  SB signings.....but that is the measure of Dean Smith a top,topman and a defender of reason.

Edited July 17, 2019 by TRO

[sne]

So the same people who focused on their perceived positives are still focusing on them, and the same people who focused on their perceived negatives are still focusing on those.

All just trying to write history in the narrative that is most complementary to the position one fought for during his ill fated tenure here.

As for Bruce, he still comes off as self serving and calculating. Just like he did here when he did his little soft spoken victim act in the post game interviews.

Don't buy it for a second.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

No I think this exchange of views....misses the point somewhat.

 

Dean Smith spoke about the defence and keeper needing to be strengthened many times.  He just stated it as a fact rather than an excuse. 

As for it being a mess, I called it that as the original post I was replying to described it that way. 

Bruce is not a s**t manager. There is no way for a second he thought he could succeed with one fully fit centre half in the squad. 

I don’t know how the transfer window was able to close with the defence left in that way. It just doesn’t make sense.  

[sne]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Dean Smith spoke about the defence and keeper needing to be strengthened many times.  He just stated it as a fact rather than an excuse. 

As for it being a mess, I called it that as the original post I was replying to described it that way. 

Bruce is not a s**t manager. There is no way for a second he thought he could succeed with one fully fit centre half in the squad. 

I don’t know how the transfer window was able to close with the defence left in that way. It just doesn’t make sense.  

He could have already decided he wanted out and thought this would speed up the process?

Or he genuinely thought Jedi was a CB

[Zatman]

Watford got a big payout from Everton for Marco Silva and said it derailed their season. I imagine Wednesday are looking at that. 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Dean Smith spoke about the defence and keeper needing to be strengthened many times.  He just stated it as a fact rather than an excuse. 

As for it being a mess, I called it that as the original post I was replying to described it that way. 

Bruce is not a s**t manager. There is no way for a second he thought he could succeed with one fully fit centre half in the squad. 

I don’t know how the transfer window was able to close with the defence left in that way. It just doesn’t make sense.  

I agree.

But that is a reasonable response....I still think the state of the clubs finances conspired against SB and influenced the poor decisions on Centre Back that he made....endorsed by Purslow himself, by saying he had a horrendous time in the summer, running the club on his own.

Steve Bruce is many things but as you quite rightly say, He is not a **** manager, carte blanche.

I am just so happy we have Dean,R O'K JT.......I would much rather write about them.

[TheStagMan]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

• I just have argued he didn't leave a mess, unfinished work ,yes.....He had no money to sign a mings or Hause, we could'nt even pay the tax bill......was you on holiday?
• Dean Smith took over and said the team was good enough to go up Automatically, His Words, not mine.... after the dip, losing Jack he adjusted his stance to Play offs......that is how much mess he thought was left......yes Dean did create a miracle, taking nothing away from the chap, but get your facts right.
• usually when not an ounce of good can be gleaned from a soul.....its usually a hater at work.

No I wasn't on holiday, I was astounded that anyone could honestly think that he did not leave a mess.

 

Dean Smith is hardly likely to come out and say its a mess. He has more class than that. Anyone looking at the state of our defence and the financial peril we had been put in from the recruitment gambles that had been made would readily conclude that we were a mess. Unfininshed business my arse! 

 

My soul is absolutely fine thank you very much. Its a cheap, and frankly pathetic argument to make "hater" when they hold an opinion that you disagree with.

 

I think I will leave it there with you TRO. You are obviously getting rattled.

[TheStagMan]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

Hate, always is weird.....It destroys a reasoned argument or discussion.

So does delusion and clinging to hope.

 

Hate.. Feck me.