Steve Bruce

[Stuartc445]

58 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He literally just got announced that day, and was in the stands during the match. He met the players in the dressing room at halftime. His first real match as manager was against West Brom in the QF.

Lambert had a reputation as one of the most promising young managers in English football, having promoted Norwich back to back and finished 12th in the PL in their first season. Had nothing to do with McLeish or Sherwood. He was highly rated when he came to us. He also managed to keep us up twice on the most embarrassing PL budget in recent memory. His legacy isn't much better or worse than McLeish or Houllier.

Tim Sherwood's reputation was that he had a lot of pashun and was caretaker manager at Spurs for a few months. What has he done since then? Exactly. They guy is just not a football manager. He managed to slick talk his way into our job and a couple of results but it quickly unraveled. He's a total fraud.

Paul Lambert managed to lose to Bradford City over 2 legs who were in League 2.  tbh i've just read that out loud and i'm considering changing things and putting him behind Eric Black.

How you can defend Paul Lambert after that embarrassment is astonishing.  

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

Paul Lambert managed to lose to Bradford City over 2 legs who were in League 2.  tbh i've just read that out loud and i'm considering changing things and putting him behind Eric Black.

How you can defend Paul Lambert after that embarrassment is astonishing.  

I'm not defending him. I'm saying he's not worse than Sherwood, who is quite easily bottom of the pile. Not even a manager.

Who tf even was Eric Black? Shouldn't even be on the list imo.

[kurtsimonw]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Sherwood spent Lambert's entire 3 year budget in one window. No point pointing out individual transfers, on the whole it was an embarrassingly small.

Lambert had a net spend of £22m in his first window. Sherwood had a net spend of around £1.5m.

You can't just ignore sales. The fact is Sherwood had a much bigger overhaul when you consider the key players that we lost. Who did we lose the summer Lambert took over, Warnock, Collins and Cuellar?

 

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm not defending him. I'm saying he's not worse than Sherwood, who is quite easily bottom of the pile. Not even a manager.

Who tf even was Eric Black? Shouldn't even be on the list imo.

He manaaged us a similar amount of time as Sherwood in the relegation season and picked up 1 point and conceded about 3 goals a game

[Keyblade]

12 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

Lambert had a net spend of £22m in his first window. Sherwood had a net spend of around £1.5m.

You can't just ignore sales. The fact is Sherwood had a much bigger overhaul when you consider the key players that we lost. Who did we lose the summer Lambert took over, Warnock, Collins and Cuellar?

 

Well almost all of that came from a single player who we sold for a club record fee, but even net spend doesn't give the whole context. For one, the players that left when Lambert joined were of so little value to other teams that we either had to sell them for a paltry fee or release them. But at the same time they were players in important positions that had to be replaced (a situation we incidentally currently find ourselves in). Add to that Petrov being forced to retire, and that's another important player having to be replaced but not necessarily showing up in the net spend.

Not only that, there were plenty of players in the squad already that either weren't good enough and couldn't be shifted or had to be frozen out for financial reasons. The point was to compare the rebuilding effort both had to undertake. Sherwood had to replace 3 admittedly important players with 50m. Lambert had to rebuild the whole squad on 20. There was much more wiggle room for Sherwood in that regard. He was positively backed. Lambert was hung to dry. That's the point I was making before we got hung up on minutiae.

[kurtsimonw]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Well almost all of that came from a single player who we sold for a club record fee, but even net spend doesn't give the whole context. For one, the players that left when Lambert joined were of so little value to other teams that we either had to sell them for a paltry fee or release them. But at the same time they were players in important positions that had to be replaced (a situation we incidentally currently find ourselves in). Add to that Petrov being forced to retire, and that's another important player having to be replaced but not necessarily showing up in the net spend.

Not only that, there were plenty of players in the squad already that either weren't good enough and couldn't be shifted or had to be frozen out for financial reasons. The point was to compare the rebuilding effort both had to undertake. Sherwood had to replace 3 admittedly important players with 50m. Lambert had to rebuild the whole squad on 20. There was much more wiggle room for Sherwood in that regard. He was positively backed. Lambert was hung to dry. That's the point I was making before we got hung up on minutiae.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree on this one then.

[Zatman]

15 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Well almost all of that came from a single player who we sold for a club record fee, but even net spend doesn't give the whole context. For one, the players that left when Lambert joined were of so little value to other teams that we either had to sell them for a paltry fee or release them. But at the same time they were players in important positions that had to be replaced (a situation we incidentally currently find ourselves in). Add to that Petrov being forced to retire, and that's another important player having to be replaced but not necessarily showing up in the net spend.

Not only that, there were plenty of players in the squad already that either weren't good enough and couldn't be shifted or had to be frozen out for financial reasons. The point was to compare the rebuilding effort both had to undertake. Sherwood had to replace 3 admittedly important players with 50m. Lambert had to rebuild the whole squad on 20. There was much more wiggle room for Sherwood in that regard. He was positively backed. Lambert was hung to dry. That's the point I was making before we got hung up on minutiae.

The only senior players Lambert lost 1st season was Petrov, Cuellar, Collins and Heskey. spent 22 million and recouped 2.5 million

[Keyblade]

Just now, Zatman said:

The only senior players Lambert lost 1st season was Petrov, Cuellar, Collins and Heskey. spent 22 million and recouped 2.5 million

So 2 CBs, a midfielder and a striker. Positions that needed filling, regardless of what we received for losing them. For comparison, we lost Tammy Abraham this season for nothing as he was a loan, but were forced to replace him with Wesley, for a 25m net spend to what looks like at the moment, simply stand still.

We also had Hutton, Warnock, and Dunne that we couldn't shift but were useless to us. Must have been near 200k a week combined. We replaced them with Bennett, Lowton and Vlaar for a combined maybe what...10m? It's honestly peanuts, but it increased our net spend. Like I said, look at the number of players we signed and the amount spent on them, that's a better barometer that doesn't need all of this historical context. 8-10 players for 20-25 million. It's nothing. We spent that on one player in 2011.

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

So 2 CBs, a midfielder and a striker. Positions that needed filling, regardless of what we received for losing them. For comparison, we lost Tammy Abraham this season for nothing as he was a loan, but were forced to replace him with Wesley, for a 25m net spend to what looks like at the moment, simply stand still.

We also had Hutton, Warnock, and Dunne that we couldn't shift but were useless to us. Must have been near 200k a week combined. We replaced them with Bennett, Lowton and Vlaar for a combined maybe what...10m? It's honestly peanuts, but it increased our net spend. Like I said, look at the number of players we signed and the amount spent on them, that's a better barometer that doesn't need all of this historical context. 8-10 players for 20-25 million. It's nothing. We spent that on one player in 2011.

signed Vlaar who was international centre back, KEA an international midfielder plus Benteke, Cuellar was a backup player at most. Hutton played us for 7 more years, Dunne could have done a job and Warnock was better than Bennett

problem was Lambert was a coward to these senior players and isolated them without giving a reason then he begged a few to come back seasons later

[Stuartc445]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

I'm not defending him. I'm saying he's not worse than Sherwood, who is quite easily bottom of the pile. Not even a manager.

Who tf even was Eric Black? Shouldn't even be on the list imo.

So someone who managed to get a premier league team to lose over 2 legs to a team 3 leagues below then (last professional league) is worse than a manager who got us to an FA Cup Final that's some logic. 

Sherwood Vs Lambert isn't about who's better it's more a case of who's less crap. 

Eric Black was our manager after Garde and as has been mentioned managed for a similar time as Sherwood so that is the reason he is on the list.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Stuartc445

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

signed Vlaar who was international centre back, KEA an international midfielder plus Benteke, Cuellar was a backup player at most. Hutton played us for 7 more years, Dunne could have done a job and Warnock was better than Bennett

problem was Lambert was a coward to these senior players and isolated them without giving a reason then he begged a few to come back seasons later

Well then you're saying he's good in the transfer market as he managed to sign those 3 players for a combined 12m, the majority of that being Benteke.

After 2011/2012 we were all happy to see the back of Alan Hutton. That he managed to turn his Villa career around is a testament to him but he looked finished. Ditto to Warnock who was horrid under McLeish and he just had to go, but nobody would take him. Thanks MON.

The point still remains, he had a very serious rebuild job on his hands summer 2012, and was given peanuts to do it. I mean, you can always revisit his thread around that time. Nobody was grumbling about him freezing out good players. The only one there was any dispute about was Collins. Everyone else had no place in the team.

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

So someone who managed to get a premier league to lose over 2 legs to a team 3 leagues below then (last professional league) is worse than a manager who got us to an FA Cup Final that's some logic. 

Sherwood Vs Lambert isn't about who's better it's more a case of who's less crap. 

Eric Black was our manager after Garde and as has been mentioned managed for a similar time as Sherwood so that is the reason he is on the list.

As individual experiences, the FA Cup final was the most humiliating for me. With Bradford, the result was more embarrassing than anything. 

I know who Black was, but he was nothing more than a caretaker manager. I don't even consider him to be a Villa manager.

[Gillz]

Essentially they were all pretty rubbish.

I wouldn't worry too much about ranking them all - i just group them all together and call it the 'dark years'

Edited July 5, 2019 by Gillz

[Xela]

Comparing turds. 

[Stuartc445]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

As individual experiences, the FA Cup final was the most humiliating for me. With Bradford, the result was more embarrassing than anything. 

I know who Black was, but he was nothing more than a caretaker manager. I don't even consider him to be a Villa manager.

Bradford was so much more embarrassing than the FA Cup Final as lets face it on there day under Wenger Arsenal could do that to anyone. Bradford was so much more embarrassing it's practically impossible to compare. 

[useless]

Bradford defeat might have been more embarrassing, but losing to Arsenal 4-0 in the FA Cup final was a thousand times more disappointing.

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

Bradford was so much more embarrassing than the FA Cup Final as lets face it on there day under Wenger Arsenal could do that to anyone. Bradford was so much more embarrassing it's practically impossible to compare. 

Hull City managed by Steve Bruce faced them in the final the year before. Their performance was light years from ours.

The reason it was so bad for Aston Villa that particular time was because Tim Sherwood had the brilliant tactical idea of playing a suicidally high defensive line containing Ron Vlaar and Jores Okore against Arsenal. I've never seen a team so thoroughly dismantled in my life. It just had to be Villa.

[LakotaDakota]

Steve Bruce thread in "people other than Steve Bruce are shit" shocker...

 

[Stuartc445]

7 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Hull City managed by Steve Bruce faced them in the final the year before. Their performance was light years from ours.

The reason it was so bad for Aston Villa that particular time was because Tim Sherwood had the brilliant tactical idea of playing a suicidally high defensive line containing Ron Vlaar and Jores Okore against Arsenal. I've never seen a team so thoroughly dismantled in my life. It just had to be Villa.

Again as i said Arsenal under Wenger on their day could do what they did to us to anybody.  yes they struggled Vs Hull the year before Arsenal under Wenger were one of those teams that could embarrass themselves for example Vs Blues in the league cup but were more than capable to tear a team several arseholes. 

Yeah had we gone after them in that game we could have got something but equally they could have scored so many that Man City wouldn't have the record for biggest FA Cup Final victory.

Anyway for the record i'm not saying Sherwood is any good i'm just saying that he's better than Lambert because he got us to the final, whereas Lambert lost over 2 legs to league 2 Bradford City how you can say losing to a team that had at that point never failed to qualify for the Champions League under Wenger is more embarrassing than Bradford is utter madness. Also lets not forget Lambert changed his footballing philosophy every time he returned from Germany.

[HanoiVillan]

16 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Steve Bruce thread in "people other than Steve Bruce are shit" shocker...

It's precisely because of all the years of garbage that came before him that I don't hate - or even dislike - Bruce whatsoever. When you place his time here in the context of supporting this football club over the last near-decade, his time in charge was basically fine for me. I'm glad we changed manager when we did, no doubt, but 2017/2018 was when I rediscovered my love of watching Villa play and I'll thank Bruce for his part in that, whatever others think.