Steve Bruce

[TRO]

7 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Without going over old ground I believe Bruce has got us where we are because he has a good squad who can produce moments of brilliance that can win games.

I genuinely believe if he was managing Brentford this season they would not be as high up as they are as they don't have as many of those players

Dean Smith has Brentford where they are because of his coaching and tactics and that's the big difference.

For no other reason of proving a point.....I would love to see Dean Smith take over.

so he does.

and the things like expectation, the pressure of a big club , which is largely intangible kicks in and it all crumbles.....what then?

I can tell you that if we sacked Bruce and brought in Dean Smith there would be a few raised eyebrows in football.....and not for the better.

Dean Smith is not the next Graham Taylor or Brian Clough......Decent manager, doing a good job at a club with low expectation and limited funds, plays a brand of football that is pleasing to the eye, but pulls up no trees on the defensive side.

If he was so good, why has other ambitious Championship clubs not come in for him.....He only lived in Walsall, why didn't Albion come in or Wolves or Derby or even Nottingham Forest.

This Dean Smith thing is fantasy.

Edited March 18, 2018 by TRO

[foreveryoung]

Ive said from the start, even if he won us the Champonship, I would not be taking him into the Premier League with us. He is just not that type of manager. In the end he is a bloody dinosaur far from suited to premier league football.

[foreveryoung]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

For no other reason of proving a point.....I would love to see Dean Smith take over.

so he does.

and the things like expectation, the pressure of a big club , which is largely intangible kicks in and it all crumbles.....what then?

Agree here. Ive said it before, we would destroy Dean Smith at this club. I dont think he could handle the pressure a big club brings. He is doing ok at Brentford yes, but there's no where near the pressure there than their is here. Christ, I'm not even sure Bentford are bothered about promotion, they haven't got the money to survive the Premier league.

[sne]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

For no other reason of proving a point.....I would love to see Dean Smith take over.

so he does.

and the things like expectation, the pressure of a big club , which is largely intangible kicks in and it all crumbles.....what then?

I can tell you that if we sacked Bruce and brought in Dean Smith there would be a few raised eyebrows in football.....and not for the better.

Dean Smith is not the next Graham Taylor or Brian Clough......Decent manager, doing a good job at a club with low expectation and limited funds, plays a brand of football that is pleasing to the eye, but pulls up no trees on the defensive side.

If he was so good, why has other ambitious Championship clubs not come in for him.....He only lived in Walsall, why didn't Albion come in or Wolves or Derby or even Nottingham Forest.

This Dean Smith thing is fantasy.

Strangely worded post.

It reads like you'd love us to fail just so the people who want Dean Smith as next manager can be put in their place.

Pretty sure you and every other Villa fan want's us to be successful regardless of who the manager is.

 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Strangely worded post.

It reads like you'd love us to fail just so the people who want Dean Smith as next manager can be put in their place.

Pretty sure you and every other Villa fan want's us to be successful regardless of who the manager is.

 

So if I say, I think Dean Smith would not be right for Aston Villa, would that suffice.

No I would not like to take the risk and I think that is exactly what it would be.....but hey who thought after years and years of demise and unknown Ron Saunders would do the trick......so no one can be certain.

but if Dean Smith was in the job and was experiencing the same shennanigans as Steve Bruce right now, with 20 wins under his belt and a recent win against the Top team......I would be supporting him to sort it out, if he could.

[mykeyb]

48 minutes ago, TRO said:

For no other reason of proving a point.....I would love to see Dean Smith take over.

so he does.

and the things like expectation, the pressure of a big club , which is largely intangible kicks in and it all crumbles.....what then?

I can tell you that if we sacked Bruce and brought in Dean Smith there would be a few raised eyebrows in football.....and not for the better.

Dean Smith is not the next Graham Taylor or Brian Clough......Decent manager, doing a good job at a club with low expectation and limited funds, plays a brand of football that is pleasing to the eye, but pulls up no trees on the defensive side.

If he was so good, why has other ambitious Championship clubs not come in for him.....He only lived in Walsall, why didn't Albion come in or Wolves or Derby or even Nottingham Forest.

This Dean Smith thing is fantasy.

I am not suggesting that Dean Smith take over, I am stating that with the respective resources available Bruce comes a very poor second when it comes to the results.

Edited March 18, 2018 by mykeyb

[Eastie]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

So if I say, I think Dean Smith would not be right for Aston Villa, would that suffice.

No I would not like to take the risk and I think that is exactly what it would be.....but hey who thought after years and years of demise and unknown Ron Saunders would do the trick......so no one can be certain.

but if Dean Smith was in the job and was experiencing the same shennanigans as Steve Bruce right now, with 20 wins under his belt and a recent win against the Top team......I would be supporting him to sort it out, if he could.

Wouldn’t say Saunders was unknown - he’d took Norwich and Man City to Wembley finals before joining villa.

[romavillan]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

@TRO for me it’s the lack of any tactical nous. We look best suited as 4-4-1-1 and when we take the lead we are able to remain solid and see out games.

But when we go behind and the shape and counter attacking system isn’t working we can all sense that it’s not going to change. 

Now I don’t know what Nuno, Jokanovic or even Warnock would do in these situations. But whatever Bruce seems to do it clearly doesn’t work. More often than not it makes the situation worse! 

Nuno and Jokanovic set out their stall to control possession and the game, so if they go behind they don't change it. They are set up to hold the ball and break down teams anyway. Right out the gate against QPR you could see them doubling up on Albert and Snodgrass as soon as the ball go tinto midfield. They knew where ti was going to go and snuffed it out. Wolves and Fulham aren't that one dimensional. We either attack from wide when we are in control, or are dangerous on the counter and that's it. Wolves and Fulham have much more to their game with the ball. We've been as good as anyone without it until the shambles at the back at QPR anyway!

Colin rocket polisher is high energy balls out get it forward direct football. He has Cardiff believing it and knowing theri jobs 100% and they are well drilled. Of the three they will be a bit emporer's new clothes in the Prem, the others will probably be able to adjust a bit easier.

As for Bruce I was very anti and was asking for at least the team stopped looking like a total bunch of strangers (even when we were winning at the time). He got that sorted to be fair to him, either by signing Agnew coach or two or himself, regardless he's ultimately responsible so well done Bruce on that front. He has got levels of performance out the team that looked beyond him before Christmas. Right now, should we not go up in the play-offs the board has a big decision to make. If they have someone in mind who is younger and more dynamic and will have an approach like Nuno and Jokanovic then I'd be for it I think, give them a pre-season and the summer transfer window to get the squad sorted for their style of play. The other choice is keeping Bruce on and giving him the resources to sign a few so we are not so reliant on the same 11 for decnt performances. 

I would be happier, if we don't go up, I think to see a change as long as it's the right change. The big risk in doing that though is you replace Bruce with someone who can't acheive what Bruce has managed, as you'd think he'd be capable of another play off finish next season.

[TRO]

Just now, mykeyb said:

I am no suggesting that Dean Smith take over, I am staying that with the respective resources available Bruce comes a very poor second when it comes to the results.

I understand what you are saying and not dismissing it......That is to Deans Credit.

but with one or two exceptions a club like ours has not exactly gone gungho in the transfer market either.....not on Steves watch

What about Neil Warnock who has spent very little and usually raises a few laughs when his name is mentioned with us.

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I understand what you are saying and not dismissing it......That is to Deans Credit.

but with one or two exceptions a club like ours has not exactly gone gungho in the transfer market either.....not on Steves watch

What about Neil Warnock who has spent very little and usually raises a few laughs when his name is mentioned with us.

Warnock wouldn’t leave Cardiff in the premiership and I doubt very much xia would want him - if Bruce goes its time to appoint a younger more modern coach with progressive tactics .

[AntrimBlack]

If Xia wants to make our great club successful again, he will need better than Smith or Warnock.

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

If Xia wants to make our great club successful again, he will need better than Smith or Warnock.

With little if any cash to spend it will be hard to attract the quality needed.

[mykeyb]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

I understand what you are saying and not dismissing it......That is to Deans Credit.

but with one or two exceptions a club like ours has not exactly gone gungho in the transfer market either.....not on Steves watch

What about Neil Warnock who has spent very little and usually raises a few laughs when his name is mentioned with us.

How much did he spend 14 months ago? 

Sadly he was left with Gaby, Richards and McCormack which have curtailed us some what but he has backed and how when it comes to signing Terry and Snodgrass.

Warnock proves to some extent how Bruce could have done better, started the same week as Bruce, took over a team below us and has not had the ability to bring in the names Bruce has but has built a team, Steve has assembled a group of players and that's the difference.

Edited March 18, 2018 by mykeyb
Spelling

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

How much did he spend 14 in the ago? 

Sadly he was left with Gaby, Richards and McCormack which have curtailed us some what but he has backed and how when it comes to signing Terry and Snodgrass.

Warnock proves to some extent how Bruce could have done better, started the same week as Bruce, took over a team below us and has not had the ability to bring in the names Bruce has but has built a team, Steve has assembled a group of players and that's the difference.

Agree here. Bruce could not do what Warnock has done with Cardiff. 

We are where we are because we have close to the best players in the Championship, not because the manager is a genius tactician. 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

For no other reason of proving a point.....I would love to see Dean Smith take over.

so he does.

and the things like expectation, the pressure of a big club , which is largely intangible kicks in and it all crumbles.....what then?

I can tell you that if we sacked Bruce and brought in Dean Smith there would be a few raised eyebrows in football.....and not for the better.

Dean Smith is not the next Graham Taylor or Brian Clough......Decent manager, doing a good job at a club with low expectation and limited funds, plays a brand of football that is pleasing to the eye, but pulls up no trees on the defensive side.

If he was so good, why has other ambitious Championship clubs not come in for him.....He only lived in Walsall, why didn't Albion come in or Wolves or Derby or even Nottingham Forest.

This Dean Smith thing is fantasy.

You hope, or you know ? If the latter, how ? And would Bruce do a better job at Brentford than Smith ?

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

If he was so good, why has other ambitious Championship clubs not come in for him.....He only lived in Walsall, why didn't Albion come in or Wolves or Derby or even Nottingham Forest.

Because recruiting a manager who’s only experience is Walsall and Brentford is a big gamble if goes wrong. Enough of a gamble for CEO’s or DOF’s to lose there jobs for taking such a chance if doesn’t work out.   

If they go for managers with more of a track record, i.e. RDM or Bruce. It’s a lot easier to justify the selection if it goes t*ts up and chances of keeping your job are a lot higher. 

[AntrimBlack]

49 minutes ago, Eastie said:

With little if any cash to spend it will be hard to attract the quality needed.

I think we are both right, Eastie. Difficult times await us, I suspect.

[srsmithusa]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

He is the manager, he has to take responsibility for his team.

However He is to blame and shouldering the blame is not the same thing, I hope you recognise that.

I'm not sure what caused it.....some of our players, didn't look as though they wanted the last 2 games.....not sure how you deal with that, Steve Bruce is an experienced manager, he will know if he can fix it or not.

Whats your view?

Why do you think we can offer such a massive disparity in form in the space of 1 week?

It sounds like you are saying that he “shoulders the blame” but can’t be held accountable for it.   I think you’re drawing a line between specific playing errors (short term) and errors over the long term.  I would add that I hold a manager responsible for  repeated playing errors, individual and team preparation.  Errors in those, facilitate playing errors.   

I would also say that the playing errors for which you are IMO too quick to excuse him are made by players he signed, contracted, trained, prepared, coached, selected, and set up in a strategy.  

But you ask me why the wheels have come off.  First, I will say that you have regularly told me (when I was complaining that players made serious errors and were not replaced) that I didn’t know what happened in training.  But that cuts both ways.  I can’t possibly say what is wrong in training and preparation. I can only judge by the outcome.   Clearly you agree that the product in the last 2 games is not good

Based on the display, i think it’s a very long list of contributing factors that fall on the manager.  Failure to rotate effectively during a compressed schedule.  Failure to select the players that best handle the particular opponent and their style of play.  Failure to implement and stay with a strategy or game plan.  Putting a line up (4 forwards) on the pitch without adjusting the plan to suit that formation (long ball).  I will again note that none of these ARE individual player errors, but they all contribute to player errors.  Those are ways I think Bruce contributed to our recent come apart... this is  not a comprehensive list of what I think are his errors since he first came.  Just those that reply to your question.  

If the come apart is player errors, whoever trained, prepared, selected them and set the strategy for them to follow clearly failed to do that very well.  

[VillanousOne]

international break is good in some ways considering how bad we are currently, but it also means we will go back to the same line up in two weeks time.

For some reason Terry and Chester without Hutton and Jed or Whelan don't seem as effective a defence, they can't seem to cope with crosses or corners very well or players with height which is odd.

What has happened to Samba? Is he done for the season and therefore with us?
 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Eastie said:

Wouldn’t say Saunders was unknown - he’d took Norwich and Man City to Wembley finals before joining villa.

In relative terms he was.